Another Zbrush/Studio question, help save my sanity. (thx for help so far)
SnowSultan
Posts: 3,643
I'm on the verge of quitting 3D for good if I can't get an answer to this question somewhere.
I send a Genesis 8 figure to Zbrush, either through GoZ or as an OBJ. Can someone tell me EXACTLY how to send it either back to Studio or elsewhere FROM Zbrush as a static OBJ WITH the original UDIMs/UVs intact? Every time I send it, no matter what I do, Zbrush flattens the UDIMs and the figure ends up in another program with a single UV (the face). At least half a dozen friends are trying to help me on Facebook and nothing is working.
Thanks in advance to anyone who might prevent me from uninstalling about a terrabyte of 3D stuff and returning to Clip Studio Paint.
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I don't use ZBrush, but I have brought a fair few models into Blender and brought them back out with the UVs intact. If you import the figure into Blender as an obj file, you can manually adjust the UVs to put them back into the correct spot.
Snow I just realised and posted on Facebook
DAZ studio and Zbrush UV view lies to you
neither viewport supports UDIM!!!!!
but it is UDIM, you need to look at the model in a program that does
Thank you Margrave, but the OBJ comes into Blender with a single material and no visible UVs in the window, despite having them (I thought) in Zbrush.
Can someone who uses Zbrush explain step-by-step and with every necessary setting or box checked what is necessary to export an OBJ with UVs from Zbrush? I am really almost done with all of this.
it has UVs, I did nothing special, it just doesn't keep the surfaces
which for most people doesn't matter because they only want the texture maps (and if a PA the HD morphloader obj)
you will need to add the surfaces using the UDIM in another program that does support them visually
I know Ultimate Unwrap 3D will (and Carrara but my subdivided mesh too heavy) Blender should too
it is what people have to do because DAZ studio has limitations as it is not a modelling software
I will test Hexagon but my PC struggling as I am doing stuff in Unreal at the same time
yes Hexagon can and you can send to DAZ studio too via the bridge after assigning surfaces
I repeat, DAZ studio is NOT A MODELLING PROGRAM
frustrating, yes but that is why all the Premier Artists and other people model in other software
instead of getting frustrated you need to use a modelling program and while Zbrush has limitations as you found Blender will do much of what Zbrush can without those limitations and free
just with a sucky User interface
Otherwise you might need to buy Maya!!!
oh my god, is ANYONE LISTENING to ANYTHING I say? Of course I know DAZ Studio isn't a modeling program, I was using it since it was in pre-alpha. ALL I WANT is to export a god-forsaken OBJ from Zbrush with the UDIMs not smashed on top of each other.
For TWO DAYS I've done almost nothing else but research this ONE STUPID THING and can't get a straight answer. Screw it. I'm tired, I'm done. I'll commission other artists for a while and maybe actually buy Maya one day if it can get sh*t done without driving me to this point.
others are welcome to try and help but you cannot get answers that don't exist
I cannot put it any straighter than that and I am trying to be as clear as I can which probably comes accross badly
you need to find workarounds
do you know how much you subdivided it?
subdivide the genesis figure the same, use scene info as a guide
convert it to a prop and try loading it on it with morphloader
mine was subdiv3 and it worked
HDskinsuit
rigged converted to prop subdvided 3 G8M with transfer utility, loaded the subdiv 3 HD morph with morphloader pro
hide lips and mouth eye bits as they go nutzoid as welded
hide all his skin except lips eye and mouth parts
video
OK, that is interesting - I was able to send details back from Zbrush to a figure-converted-to-prop at 1 million polys through GoZ (which is more than I could do this morning), but I'm not quite understanding how you got that detail on a figure that could remain posable, much less animated. What is "the imported obj" in the first step, is that an exported OBJ version of the subdivided but still posable figure? So you subdivided the original figure to 3, exported an OBJ, sent that to Zbrush, edited it, and then re-imported it as a morph? What needs to be converted to a prop then?
Thank you for continuing to help with this. I still definitely need a break, but this will at least give me some hope.
I exported a G8M subdivided to 3 no eyelashes
sculpted it with a chisel brush but it could be any brush not adding mesh
polypainted it
used multimap exporter and exported the mesh in it too
converted a Subdiv3 G8M to a prop and fitted it to another G8M witth the transfer utility
loaded the morph on it and hid the skin surfaces except the lips on the G8M wearing it and the lips, eye and mouth parts on the skinsuit
he is animated, the skin is his outfit
Assuming that I understand what you are trying to achieve correctly, I agree with @WendyLuvsCatz that the problem lies in the surfaces being lost rather than the UV tiles.
I have attached a screenshot for a Genesis 8 figure modified in ZBrush, exported as an obj file and imported back into Daz Studio just as a new object and not as a morph.
Before exporting from ZBrush, I made sure that polygroups were set for each UV tile. With some import/export settings this is done automatically, but if the polygroups are not set up correctly, just chose "UV Groups" (not the auto option) from the polygroups menu.
In Daz Studio, the polygroups show up as Face Groups in the Geometry Editor tool. I have recreated 4 of the original surfaces by using the + and - button in the Geometry Editor tool's panel to select the polygons for that face group. In the tool's panel menu, I then created new surfaces using the tools panel menu option "Geometry Assignment/Create Surface from Selected". After doing this, the UV map for the new surfaces shows up correctly.
I also edited the figure name in scene identification for the object to allow the original hierarchical materials for the figure to be loaded.
I hope that this helps.
Edit: Note that this will not work with GoZ as polygroups are not transfered using GoZ.
I'm probably underthinking this, but wouldn't you just be able to use the transfer utility to copy the UV mapping back if it is lost? I'm definitely a newb when it comes to ZBrush, but I've brought meshes back into Daz as new objects rather than morphs, and never had any issue keeping the UV mapping. Granted that was the 2018 version of ZBrush, and then 2019 and 2020...I haven't done much with the 2021 version yet. I don't even have the program installed on my new rig, otherwise I'd give it a shot to make sure.
Galien: Thank you very much, that does work. The first time I tried, it exported with about 200 groups (??), but now it's doing it properly...I wonder if I might need to reinstall Zbrush because some of this behavior is quite strange. I then tried it with a 4 million poly version, but Studio hung when I tried to assign a group to a surface (not totally unexpected).
Melissa: Yeah I don't know why something that should be so simple is suddenly so difficult, that's why it's been so mind-numbingly frustrating. I'm not that familiar with Transfer Utility, is there just an option to copy UVs from one figure to another?
Wendy: Thanks again. I haven't had a chance to try your skinsuit method, but I'll try today.
I use a workaround for this, and it requires the use of another paid program (Substance Painter), so it is NOT ideal, but it works for my workflow. I do this, and it works fine for my use case. At the risk of not being super helpful, I'll post it here anyway if for no other reason than to perhaps give you some more tools or possible workflows to chew on.
1) In the final ZBrush tool (the OBJ with the UVs) you can create polygroup by UV island, which will assign a polygroup to every UV island.
2) I group all of the appropriate separate parts together that belong in the same UV tile and set them all as the same Polygroup
3) Now that I essentially have every UV tile set to it's own Polygroup I export as an FBX and choose to write each polygroup as a surface.
4) I import into Substance Painter, and you'll see that each Polygroup is, in fact, a surface
5) Export that OBJ out of Substance Painter and you can import it into DAZ. Each surface will still be there, and you should be able to apply your maps.
I know this process sucks, but the fact is that until ZBrush can export out UVs in UDIM form, or whatever that is, FBX export is the only way. Since DAZ kinda strokes out when importing FBX most of the time this seems to be the best workaround for me.
The added benefit is that if you wanted to custom paint the character, or whatever it is, you can also export a super high res version of the mesh and bake it against the lo-res in SP.
Yeah, when you open the transfer utility you just need to expand the options and select only the UV mapping to move over. I've done that with some stuff before...I'd tried to make morphs and for whatever reason the morph loader wouldn't work so I just said screw it and brough it in as a new object. It'd show up without any UV's, but then the transfer utility would work like a charm to fix that.
Duckbomb: Thank you very much for posting that, it actually might be the best method for my own workflow as well. Wish I had thought of that before I went through eight hours of hair-pulling hell yesterday. ;) I was planning on sending it from Studio to Substance Painter anyway, but your way allows for the high to low baking and (I think?) vector displacement support as well? I will try it later, just need to remind myself how to do a few of those steps.
Melissa: Thanks again, that sounds like a handy way to fix these issues.
Like, what are you trying to do? Are you trying to morph and texture a character?
I want to be able to sculpt high-resolution details on a DAZ figure mesh in Zbrush (at least a million polys), then send it elsewhere and still be able to use the DAZ UVs/UDIMs that it originally used. It doesn't need to remain poseable (which I'm sure it can't after all the subdivision), I'm just not remotely satisfied with the level of detail that a non-PA can send back to Studio with GoZ.
What I'd love to be able to do (other than the obvious which is have access to HD morphs) is use the transfer utility to re-rig the HD figure you've brought in from ZBrush (which you can do), but still be able to use auto-fit for clothing (which you can't, because it's no longer recognized as a Genesis figure).
The entire reason I bought ZBrush was to sculpt a specific character from a game so I could include him in my fanart, only to find out that I can't bring back HD morphs. So the only way I could do it is to turn his entire face into a geograft, which is absolutely not ideal.
Wow, I'm sorry to hear that Zbrush couldn't do the one thing you needed it to do (more DAZ policy fault than Zbrush though). There's a tutorial on Youtube that fakes getting HD morphs back into Studio by basically creating a permanently subdivided G8 clone, but it apparently gets very wonky when you start trying to pose it. It *might* not be so bad for just a face though, I'll try to find it again and post the link.
edit: this should be the tutorial, but as mentioned, it's very finicky and is no real replacement for the true PA HD tools.
Yeah, his face is too complex to sculpt and only be able to use once for a single posed scene. It's really something that I'd want to be able to use on a fully poseable figure that I can put clothing on just like any other G8/8.1M. I've always found it absolutely ridiculous that only PA's have access to create HD morphs. It's not like me being able to sculpt one character would stop me from spending $$$ on other PA-made characters in the store.
the limitations they impose just drive me to seek other software TBH
I still use DAZ content though but DAZ studio itself is far too proprietary.
Limiting Dforce strandbased hair for example too led me to shun it entirely instead of buying it like I do other stuff I can tweak, instead I create grooms from transmapped hairs for Unreal Engine.
I don't own any separate DAZ HDmorphs at all, just ones included with characters
waste of my money.
if we could tweak them in Zbrush ourselves I would buy existing ones too, it's never ever stopped me buying anything else, I own an awful lot of content.
As far as my workflow goes, yes, you can bake in vector displacement and all. The biggest limiting factor to me is that you can't actually re-UV anything. Characters are usually fine, but some of the UVs I see are... not great for super HD resolution renders.
I'll usually export out something like "G8_FBX_LO" and then bump up to like 5 - 8 million polys (at least, so long as it's under 15 I usually keep hitting the button) and export out "G8_FBX_HI" which I use to add the details and bake out those maps.
I've brought the topic of HD morphs around here enough times to know that most people will tell you "you don't need that" or "normals and displacement work fine". I'm not trying to slog on anybody here or be negative, but the truth is that everybody is using this software to do various things and either normals or displacement is not a true replacement for HD sculpting. More specifically, sculpting through the subdivisions. Even the whole 'export to OBJ - re-import and work with that' workflow isn't ideal because anybody who has any experience with 3D sculpting knows its always better to start at low-poly and sculpt through the subdivisions.
That and normal maps and displacement won't always work because they can only do positive and negative in a straight line. The character I wanted to sculpt has spine-like protrusions on his face that twist and curve. When I brought this up a couple years ago, voicing my frustration after finding out that I couldn't do what I wanted, I was told much the same you were. "Oh, but you can just bake maps for that." Well no, no you can't. Not for what I need. Then I was told "Well, just make a geograft because those can be sculpted in HD and brought into Daz." Well, yes, technically, but that doesn't work perfectly either because you have to create the sculpt for the geograft by building off of the base G8M figure. You can't dial-spin a figure, export that and then sculpt the geograft. The problem in my case is that the character's underlying face has such pronounced hard angles and cheekbones, that I need to be able to sculpt off of that "canvas" and not the round baby-faced chubby cheeks of the base G8M. Trying to do it off the base G8M, and then dialing in the hard angles and cheekbones later, only results in ill-placed spine-like features.
Duckbomb, if you wouldn't mind, could you share any recommended normal or displacement export settings from either Zbrush or Substance Painter? I'd just like to confirm that mine are properly set for quality and to avoid any weirdness like I experienced with the UV issue. Thank you very much for the help so far.
Normal maps use the RGB channels of the image to give illussion of moving on all 3 axii.
Still can't deform a mesh to twist and turn upon itself.
A normal maps doesn't change the shape at all, it changes the way the surface is treated as facing for lighting calculations.
Hmmm... I'm sorry, but I honestly don't think I'll be much help here... I don't really specifically generate normals or displacement maps, I usually use SP to completely texture something from scratch. Or, in the case of characters, you could actually plug in the maps into fill layers in SP so that you generally have all of the right texture information in there, and then just add to it. I was just answering with part of my workflow because it addressed the issue of being able to re-import into DS while keeping the correct UV map and surface group information.
For the few times I have created displacement maps in ZBrush I've used Substance Painter primarily as a "bridge" of sorts to allow me to effective export out an FBX from ZBrush (so that it retains the right information) and then export the OBJ from Substance (don't triangulate, btw) so that it plays nice with DAZ. In those cases, I just used as many of the default settings as possible, I'm sure... I don't really often go about changing things from default too often.
So, I just know that this would work for specifically getting it from ZBrush to DAZ without having to create surface groups with the Geometry Tool in DS.
The only thing I've learned is that it seems when you export height information from SP and you plug it into DAZ you'll want to set the intensity to at least 4 for it to start to look right.
I'm sorry I couldn't be more help. Honestly, this is something I've been meaning to look more into, though, and I'll probably fiddle with it at some point in the next few days. If I find something out that could be helpful I'll come back and post it here!