What laptop is best for running DAZ?
Drogo Nazhur
Posts: 1,157
I want it to be a laptop because I do my DAZ stuff in different rooms of the house at different times and moving a desktop and monitor and keyboard is going to be too cumbersome
i need a large hard drive. I'm almost at a terabyte now and I want room to grow so it needs to be bigger than a terabyte and it needs to have power. Right now if I load over 3-4 Genesis 8 characters, it comes to a crawl. I need power for that not to happen
so what does everyone recommend?
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None of them.
You're asking for two contradictory things: convenience and power. A laptop is convenient, a desktop has power, room to grow, and won't melt your lap with heat. Laptops are not suitable for 3D content creation, especially a resource hog like Daz Studio.
That said, because people demand laptops even though they're terrible for 3D content creation, Nvidia has a line of RTX laptops: Buy Graphics Cards, Laptops, and Systems | NVIDIA GeForce Store
But again, you should not be doing this.
Best for running DS... Maybe something like this https://rog.asus.com/laptops/rog-zephyrus/2021-rog-zephyrus-s17-series/
Rendering 3-4 Genesis 8 figures in a scene? Then, no, you need desktop power.
If you're willing to block out scenes, render it in pieces and composite it together? Then a lower power laptop is fine. It takes work and effort to manage a scene like that, however. Using Iray matte passes, for instance. There are things you can do, but it takes work rather than lining it all up and pressing the button.
Well, I have to contradict some opinions somewhat. I built a custom rig from Origin https://www.originpc.com/gaming/laptops/new-eon17-x/ and suped the bejeesuz out of it. Yup, nothing will ever beat a desktop, but this comes damn near close. Because I work abroad on a rotational contract I need mobility and this laptop is the workhorse I was dreaming of. I can render scenes within a couple of hours. I have a portable 4k screen that I take with me and can play games at 90fps with no problems. I run 11 very 'high demand' 3D content creation software on this machine with no problem. The fans on this machine were the selling point and I couldn't be happier.
FYI Edit - I ran a 'prop and scenery intense' render with 4 Genesis 8 males in it and it took about 2.5/3hours.
So... you used the "B" word in your post title. That B word when talking about laptops = expensive!
My pick for "Best" laptop to run Daz Studio = a Workstation class laptop with a Nvidia RTX A5000 16GB GPU and at least 64GB of system RAM.
I have a five year old MSI Fangbook that runs DS very well ;) It has a quad core intel cpu, 970m 6 gig gfx and 16 gigs of ram. I got no issues (I use an active cooling pad tho) ;)
Laurie
Laptops tend to overheat during 3d rendering.You certainly want some external cooling option to mitigate.
I'll second Laurie's vote for an MSI laptop. I have an MSI GT76 with an i9 9990k, 128Gb RAM, 8TB of storage, and an RTX 2070. It's been fantastic. Yes, it's a bit of overkill for just DAZ, but I also use it for photogrammetry and Lidar processing. It's not ultra portable (two power bricks), but has been able to handle everything I've thrown at it (including photogrammetry projects of nearly 3000 photos). Getting a really good system will be more expensive than a desktop, but IMHO the mobility is worth it (actually it's required for my needs). The biggest limitation with DS for me is the 8Gb of memory on the GPU, but I can still do some fairly involved scenes with the aid of Scene Optimizer (see example below).
I know everyone thinks Iray is extremely taxing on your system, especially the GPU. In my experience, it produces much less heat (i.e doesn't work my entire computer nearly as hard using both the CPU and GPU) than several other things I use my laptop for. Processing large photogrammetry data sets will max out the CPU, while also working the GPU rather hard. This will generate a lot more heat than rendering in Iray (of course the 9900K is running all 8 cores/16 logical cores at ~4.8GHz maxed out during the processing).
Example of image rendered on a laptop as one single render:
I also use an MSI laptop for some renders, a GL75 Leopard to be specific. It has an RTX 2070 and special cooling built in. It also has a button that turns the fans on full blast if needed.
Personally I use the laptop to compose scenes and render drafts. Then transfer the scene to a desktop to do a full render. However, the laptop itself could handle it if I just let it go.
I invested in a $10 metal monitor stand from Amazon that I place the laptop on and that helps the air circulate underneath.
Your old laptop is ok for setting things up and you can move around. Save your work and transfer to your desktop for rendering. You dont want to keep rendering on a laptop due to poor cooling. The choice is yours if you dont care just do what you want its your money.
I also only have room for a laptop and run an upgraded Infiity W5, which is the Australia / New Zealand version of the XMG Neo 15. It's got an i7-11800H CPU, RTX3070 8GB GPU and 64 GB system RAM. My system ran the benchmark test in under 3 minutes so while performance is below the desktop version, it isn't as bad as some believe. Reviews on this model noted it has good cooling and sitting on a cheap cooling pad the GPU stays around 68° - 71°C during long renders, so well within the safe range.
I'm very happy with it but if I were to go back in time, I'd go for the model that came with the RTX3080 16GB as the 8GB GPU RAM is limiting in some circumstances.
If you insist on using a laptop, but still do have room for a more stationary device in your house, then it might be worth it to set up a desktop as a render server, and work on your scenes on your laptop.
That way, you can take advantage of different models of laptops, for example, a laptop with a better CPU and more memory, but a non-nvidia graphicscard, since the rendering would be relegated to your server.
The desktop would be a more standard render-rig, with nvidia GPU(s) and all, possibly with a lot of harddrive space as well, since you could still map drives on your desktop as network-drives to your laptop, and you could install your Daz library there.
Ofcourse, you'd probably have to always be on your home network with your laptop, to take advantage of your library. On the other hand, drives on your "server" would be less subject to damage from dropping your laptop or anything like that.
Might need the help of some networking guy to set this all up, but it's definitely an option for laptop use.
You can get, in US, a laptop with an RTX 3050 or RTX 3050 TI for less than $1000 USD so probably a bit more elsewhere. eg HP Victus type model. An RTX 3060 adds $200 - $400 USD and more to the price. And you'll likely want to add a 2nd SSD at about $200 USD in the 2nd M.2 2TB SSD slot most such laptops have.
Although all of my laptops since DS3 have created 3000+ pixel renders with little to no problems other than user error, I was literally melting them within 9-12 months, having to spend thousands on a new system, and worse, converting everything onto a new system seemingly constantly. Then my gamer-son suggested an Alienware gaming laptop. Now I render 5000 pixel renders without a hitch and fast and my last laptop lasted eight years and my current Alien isn't even a year old yet. It doesn't even get warm.
Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-10750H CPU @ 2.60GHz 2.59 GHz
Installed RAM 16.0 GB (15.8 GB usable)
Device ID 4AAB62B9-77F5-411F-8012-1011ECA3E1D5
Product ID 00325-82078-89987-AAOEM
System type 64-bit operating system, x64-based processor
Pen and touch Pen support
I guess those laptops would work for some people, but I would avoid Alienware(i.e. Dell) for two main reasons: too much bloatware & cheap/proprietary hardware that is way overpriced. I haven't purchased an Alienware laptop recently, but I know some people have complained about how loud the fans are on those things. I haven't compared prices lately, but I'm sure for what they charge for Alienware laptops, you could probably do better elsewhere.
I've burnt up an HP 8460P laptop rendering in DAZ Studio. It was fine as long as I kept it booted and plugged in for 2 years. I unplug it for a week, the laptop cools off 100%, and circuits crack in the motherboard ruining the laptop. The newer laptops run cooler because of CPU/GPU dieshrinks and are also better heatsinked than 5 and easpecially 10 years ago.
Uh ... nope. I routinely render scenes with 4-10 fully clothed Gen 8 and/or Gen 3 figures in one shot on a Dell G5 gaming laptop (16 Mb RAM/6GB VRAM GTX1060 Max Q) WITHOUT dropping to CPU. It's all about optimizing the scene (Decimator, Scene Optimizer, reducing SubD, hiding non-visible body parts, etc.) for your hardware.
You must have a very big house for this to be an issue, but here's a possible alternative approach:
Assuming you have somewhere in your mansion to house it, get a powerful new desktop to be your Daz rendering machine.
Get a cheap laptop for using around the house or wherever else you want to do your Daz work. If you already have a laptop, use that.
Here's the trick: you don't do anything actually on the laptop, you just use it to Remote Desktop onto your main machine. All the work is happening on the remote machine, you don't need to squeeze the necessary power into your laptop.
I've used this technique to set renders running from my phone using Chrome Remote Desktop while I'm away. You can't really set up and pose scenes using the phone interface and connection, but you absolutely can when using a PC with a keyboard, mouse and network connection.
OK, if you're starting with nothing, buying two computers is more expensive than one. But it'll work out cheaper in the long run as you can upgrade the desktop over time to add more computing power way more cheaply than you could with a laptop.
Attached is a picture of my nowhere-near-powerful-enough-to-run-Daz work laptop, "running" Daz from elsewhere in my house. I don't have any relevant software at all installed on it - it's just running Chrome Remote Desktop through a browser, but the keyboard and mouse work just as if it were running Daz locally.
Those who know me here, know I don't much care if there is a cheaper way or a way to do some technique myself rather than buy a product. What matters to me most is ease and performance. I have deadlines to meet and clients to appease. I can't risk my most important tool shutting me down and overheating, and yes, MELTING. I've used the gamut of laptop brands and the only brand I don't kill in a year or less is Alienware. It does what I need it to do for YEARS. In the long run, it not only saves me money, it makes me. I'm a total convert, lol.
Being a previous owner of an Alienware laptop (going on ten years and still kicking along)... The only reason I would pause is the Dell factor.
It probably won't apply to 90% of customers, but if you have to contact Dell support then you're in trouble. If your question / issue doesn't fall into a very narrow corridor of "standard questions" then you are pretty much out of luck. You won't be able to get past their front line support unless you haunt them for weeks. Even then its not an easy process.
So if you are confident you don't need support and won't run into issues, then an Alienware is probably a solid buy. If you think you may need support, I would look elsewhere.
ADDING: Wandering back around I thought it might be a good idea to provide examples of what my support issues were. Just to put it in perspective:
The Alienware laptop came with the wrong power supply. The one they sent was just barely enough to power the video card and would result in the GPU being throttled down when the power supply wasn't sufficient. At the time this was a known issue with the model I bought and had been posted on the Dell support site by Dell themselves. Dell Support refused to acknowledge this and would not replace / exchange the power supply unless I paid an exorbinent amount for the replacement. They didn't care what the Dell site had posted and just refused. I had to resolve this by PDFing the Dell Support conversations I had along with the Dell site information on the problem. Then sending the PDF above the front line support.
A later purchase arrived with a cracked screen that very obviously happened during shipping (there was a hole straight through the box). The shipper would not let me refuse shipment and Dell told me I had to accept the package and then call support. That began a months long odyssey to try and get a replacement. Dell support claimed that the damage didn't fall under the 30 day return policy or some nonsense like that. They made me jump through hoops to send it back, probably in the hope that I would give up. Then they made me wait for a refund until after they "invesitgated" the returned product. This was despite my having pictures of the shipment from arrival, before opening the box, and showing the state the shipping box was in.
+1
If you use a laptop not designed to run for extended periods under extreme loads, then odds are extremely good that you will have a less than pleasant experience. Use a top quality high end gaming or mobile workstation laptop, and your experience will be much better!!
For rendering in DS, just like on a desktop, you are only limited by the amount of memory on your GPU (of course with the appropriate amount of system RAM to support the use of DS with your GPU). My laptop has 8Gb on the RTX 2070 card in it. Not a lot of memory compared to some of the new consumer GPU's available, but I can still do fairly complex scenes on it with the use of Scene Optimizer (the image below was done on my laptop, fit on my GPU, and I didn't need to do any optimization). But, it you want more GPU memory than 8Gb, there are laptops available now with either a 16gb 3070 or a 16Gb 3080Ti . Yes, right now you can't get a GPU with 24gb on a laptop, but 16Gb should be more than adequate for most users.
Yes, you will pay more for a quality laptop than a similar desktop (though by the time you add in the cost of a monitor, keyboard. etc. the cost difference isn't quite as much). When I got my current laptop, a similar desktop would have been approx. 10% less (without a monitor/keyboard/mouse). Being on the high end of the price scale, 10% was a few hundred dollars. But the portability of the laptop was needed, so it was worth it to me (it has paid for itself through work I have done ... several times already, my other option would have been a high end business laptop and a desktop which would have cost more and required more compromises). Agreed, the greatest downside to a laptop is that they aren't upgradable, but again, that is a compromise that may be well worth it if mobility is a top priority.
If your looking for a more budget friendly mobile workstation or gaming laptop, I would recommend on of the top of the line Clevo/Sager laptops. I've had two, and both were excellent quality machines. I got my current custom laptop from Xotic PC, and have been very happy with it, and their service was great as well. You can find two of their top of the line laptops here: https://xoticpc.com/collections/ultimate-series-gaming-laptops?page=1&rb_snize_facet6=128GB+RAM. Not cheap, but also highly configurable and can have 128Gb of RAM and a 16gb 3080ti if needed (you can get a model that maxes out at 64gb for less).
My "mansion" is a two bedroom apartment. Most of the time I used the computer in my "office" Some times I use it in my great room and some of the time I even use it on the patio or in my bedroom, But thank you for your reply.
Here is the laptop I was talking about earlier and about the cheapest your going to find a laptop that has a RTX 3000 series GPU in it. Now this one has a smaller version of the RTX 3060 mobile GPUs so it's only exquivalent to the old desktop RTX 2060s give or take but that's still very good if you are in you position and need to buy a capable computer cheap as possible.
(Laptop with RTX 3050 4GB mobile GPU: $959.99) AmazonSmile: HP Victus 16.1" 144Hz Gaming Laptop AMD Ryzen 5-5600H 8GB RAM 512GB PCIe NVMe SSD RTX 3050 4GB - AMD Ryzen 5-5600H Hexa-core - NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3050 4GB GDDR6 - 144 Hz Refresh Rate - in-Plane S : Electronics
I saw it this same model in early September at Best Buy on "Back to School" sale going for about $800 but that sale is over but with the Holiday sales coming up fast you might get a better price then $959.99.
SSDs to use for DAZ 3D content (make sure the laptop you buy has 2 or more USB 3.2 spec ports):
2TB SSD ($224.99): AmazonSmile: SanDisk 2TB Extreme Portable SSD - Up to 1050MB/s - USB-C, USB 3.2 Gen 2 - External Solid State Drive - SDSSDE61-2T00-G25 : Electronics
4TB SSD ($599.99): AmazonSmile: SanDisk 4TB Extreme Portable SSD - Up to 1050MB/s - USB-C, USB 3.2 Gen 2 - External Solid State Drive - SDSSDE61-4T00-G25 : Electronics
Pretty much for all the reasons mentioned so far...
https://www.boxx.com/systems/mobile-workstations/goboxx-mxl
For the record, this is my "mansion" ...
... I use the laptop mostly in my "office" but sometimes (like now) in my family room. And sometimes I use it in the bedroom and the Patio.
My suggestion remains the same: buy a desktop, set it up in your office. Use your existing laptop to connect to it using remote desktop. That gives you the power and price/performance of a desktop, and the convenience and portability of a laptop.
With both my laptops, the Alienware and the (current) MSI, I've had no issues working while on planes, on cruises, in hotel rooms, in bed... With an external harddrive I am able to carry my entire 3TB product archive. With Taoz's Product Manager I can easily browse my content library without an internet connection.
[Why I am doing this while on vacation is an entirely different matter...]
If you get a reasonably high end, current gaming laptop, you should have no issues for at least a few years. And, as others have pointed out, careful use of scene minimizing techniques will help as well.