Why do the feet skating

eliezerbh_813cdbc78b

I have a motion capture system of xsens -awinda and in any software I bring into it the mocap file like MB or ICLONE or 3DMAX or POSER the legs look stable on the ground only in DAZ STUDIO I get skating motion in the legs. And also slight tremors in the movement of the hands.
Anyone have any idea how to solve this problem?
Thanks in advance to all respondents

margrave

It's because Daz Studio only has forward kinematics. All motion comes from the hip bone. There's no IK handles to fix limbs to surfaces.

eliezerbh_813cdbc78b

margrave said:

It's because Daz Studio only has forward kinematics. All motion comes from the hip bone. There's no IK handles to fix limbs to surfaces.

Is there no tool or script to fix this problem ? 

margrave

eliezerbh_813cdbc78b said:

margrave said:

It's because Daz Studio only has forward kinematics. All motion comes from the hip bone. There's no IK handles to fix limbs to surfaces.

Is there no tool or script to fix this problem ? 

Treat Daz Studio as an asset library only and export to any of the other programs you mentioned.

takezo_3001

eliezerbh_813cdbc78b said:

margrave said:

It's because Daz Studio only has forward kinematics. All motion comes from the hip bone. There's no IK handles to fix limbs to surfaces.

Is there no tool or script to fix this problem ? 

You can try Mister casual's limb script for G3, and a G3-to-G8 pose converter... Generate/save the animation/script for G3, then load the pose/animation for G8 and convert it to a G3 pose, hope this helps!

Richard Haseltine

margrave said:

It's because Daz Studio only has forward kinematics. All motion comes from the hip bone. There's no IK handles to fix limbs to surfaces.

Nonsense, Daz Studio does have IK. It is not without its flaws, and it probably isn't being used here, but it does exist. In any event, IK is not being used by an imported motion-captured sequence.

As for why the data is not working in DS, what format are you using to import it? What options did you choose in the options dialogue, if there was one?

eliezerbh_813cdbc78b

Richard Haseltine said:

margrave said:

It's because Daz Studio only has forward kinematics. All motion comes from the hip bone. There's no IK handles to fix limbs to surfaces.

Nonsense, Daz Studio does have IK. It is not without its flaws, and it probably isn't being used here, but it does exist. In any event, IK is not being used by an imported motion-captured sequence.

As for why the data is not working in DS, what format are you using to import it? What options did you choose in the options dialogue, if there was one?

 I tried two ways
1. Export G8 FBX to Motion Builder
I did a G8 characterization I imported the motion from MVN ANIMATE (XSENS) into Motionbuilder I did all the steps needed to apply the motion file to the G8 and then everything looks great !!! I did bake to PLOT and then I just selected the G8 and exported to DAZ again in FBX format
I did import to DAZ and my legs are slipping

2. Export as FBX from there to 3DXchange where the characterization is done automatically and then I did a conversion to it.
Import the motion file as an FBX
convert to non-standard
Characterization as MAYA HUMAN-IK
And  applied the motion to the G8 and everything looked great
Exports the G8 as an FBX back to the DAZ and the legs slide

 by the way Also in ICLONE the MOTION looks great

margrave

Richard Haseltine said:

Nonsense, Daz Studio does have IK. It is not without its flaws, and it probably isn't being used here, but it does exist.

The purpose of IK is to fix limbs in place so figures can interact with the environment.

Daz's "IK" has no control handles to fix limbs in place.

If you move the hip bone too much, the limbs move out of position, defeating the purpose.

I stand by my statement that Daz doesn't have (true) inverse kinematics.

eliezerbh_813cdbc78b

takezo_3001 said:

eliezerbh_813cdbc78b said:

margrave said:

It's because Daz Studio only has forward kinematics. All motion comes from the hip bone. There's no IK handles to fix limbs to surfaces.

Is there no tool or script to fix this problem ? 

You can try Mister casual's limb script for G3, and a G3-to-G8 pose converter... Generate/save the animation/script for G3, then load the pose/animation for G8 and convert it to a G3 pose, hope this helps!

Thank you I will try it

Richard Haseltine

margrave said:

Richard Haseltine said:

Nonsense, Daz Studio does have IK. It is not without its flaws, and it probably isn't being used here, but it does exist.

The purpose of IK is to fix limbs in place so figures can interact with the environment.

Daz's "IK" has no control handles to fix limbs in place.

False, IK chains in recent builds of DS do have aprentable targets - it is true that for a long time these were not available.

If you move the hip bone too much, the limbs move out of position, defeating the purpose.

Yes, that is true and an acknowledged issue - but that doesn't mean that DS lacks IK, just that its IK is easily overwhelmed by the force of the characters motion. However, if the pins were more secure then the IK would have to fall short of its target - it is not possible to have both irresiststible forces and immovable objects.

I stand by my statement that Daz doesn't have (true) inverse kinematics.

Richard Haseltine

eliezerbh_813cdbc78b said:

Richard Haseltine said:

margrave said:

It's because Daz Studio only has forward kinematics. All motion comes from the hip bone. There's no IK handles to fix limbs to surfaces.

Nonsense, Daz Studio does have IK. It is not without its flaws, and it probably isn't being used here, but it does exist. In any event, IK is not being used by an imported motion-captured sequence.

As for why the data is not working in DS, what format are you using to import it? What options did you choose in the options dialogue, if there was one?

 I tried two ways
1. Export G8 FBX to Motion Builder
I did a G8 characterization I imported the motion from MVN ANIMATE (XSENS) into Motionbuilder I did all the steps needed to apply the motion file to the G8 and then everything looks great !!! I did bake to PLOT and then I just selected the G8 and exported to DAZ again in FBX format
I did import to DAZ and my legs are slipping

2. Export as FBX from there to 3DXchange where the characterization is done automatically and then I did a conversion to it.
Import the motion file as an FBX
convert to non-standard
Characterization as MAYA HUMAN-IK
And  applied the motion to the G8 and everything looked great
Exports the G8 as an FBX back to the DAZ and the legs slide

 by the way Also in ICLONE the MOTION looks great

So it wasn't an original Genesis 8 you were using but a figure that had been round-tripped through FBX?

eliezerbh_813cdbc78b

Richard Haseltine said:

eliezerbh_813cdbc78b said:

Richard Haseltine said:

margrave said:

It's because Daz Studio only has forward kinematics. All motion comes from the hip bone. There's no IK handles to fix limbs to surfaces.

Nonsense, Daz Studio does have IK. It is not without its flaws, and it probably isn't being used here, but it does exist. In any event, IK is not being used by an imported motion-captured sequence.

As for why the data is not working in DS, what format are you using to import it? What options did you choose in the options dialogue, if there was one?

 I tried two ways
1. Export G8 FBX to Motion Builder
I did a G8 characterization I imported the motion from MVN ANIMATE (XSENS) into Motionbuilder I did all the steps needed to apply the motion file to the G8 and then everything looks great !!! I did bake to PLOT and then I just selected the G8 and exported to DAZ again in FBX format
I did import to DAZ and my legs are slipping

2. Export as FBX from there to 3DXchange where the characterization is done automatically and then I did a conversion to it.
Import the motion file as an FBX
convert to non-standard
Characterization as MAYA HUMAN-IK
And  applied the motion to the G8 and everything looked great
Exports the G8 as an FBX back to the DAZ and the legs slide

 by the way Also in ICLONE the MOTION looks great

So it wasn't an original Genesis 8 you were using but a figure that had been round-tripped through FBX?

Ok
I think I solved the skating problem !!!!
Precisely the figure of export and import from MotionBuilde was the original GENESIS 8.
But I noticed that when I put it back into DAZ it does not slip until after I have saved it as an animation in the pose library and applied it to a new GENESIS 8. So the skating started.
Well the solution is that.
After importing the MotionBuilde into the DAZ before saving in the pose directory the following should be done

1. uncheck The general  And leave the hip check (See screenshots I attached)

2. uncheck - uncheck all-non transforms  (See screenshots I attached)

3. Then click Accept to save.

So I applied the animation from the file I saved On a new Genesis 8 and everything went great without the slips

 

Many thanks to all those who responded to me and tried to help

 

margrave

Richard Haseltine said:

Yes, that is true and an acknowledged issue - but that doesn't mean that DS lacks IK, just that its IK is easily overwhelmed by the force of the characters motion. However, if the pins were more secure then the IK would have to fall short of its target - it is not possible to have both irresiststible forces and immovable objects.

If I'm using a program with real IK--like Blender--and I position a figure's IK control handles on the rungs of a ladder, even if I drag that figure all around the scene its hands will always return to the rungs of the ladder with the same rotation and translation they had before, so long as the limbs are within range of the control handles.

That is IK.

What Daz has is not IK. It's more a suggestion of IK.

You suggest where the hands should go, but the program is free to ignore it.

wolf359

If you have RL 3DX pipelin you should export BVH to Daz studio
as it is fulyl supported by Daz studio .

My youtube channel has many examples of G8 figures
with solid foot planting from  Fk baked  BVH imports to Daz studio.

 

 

HALO RECLAIMER - YouTube

TheMysteryIsThePoint

@eliezerbh_813cdbc78b I suspect that the FBX is not properly understanding the ThighBend bones' orientation, which is small, but not zero. Not large enough to make the animation look awful, but enough to make the feet end up in the wrong place via the baked FK.

As @wolf359 says (really, try to create the habit of just doing whatever wolf says :) ) BVH is usually better for this sort of thing since it doesn't even know what orientation is, only affects the joint rotations, and therefore can't mess it up. Since you're using a bona fide retargeter, it already knows about the twist bones and should bake the BVH correctly.

eliezerbh_813cdbc78b

TheMysteryIsThePoint said:

@eliezerbh_813cdbc78b I suspect that the FBX is not properly understanding the ThighBend bones' orientation, which is small, but not zero. Not large enough to make the animation look awful, but enough to make the feet end up in the wrong place via the baked FK.

As @wolf359 says (really, try to create the habit of just doing whatever wolf says :) ) BVH is usually better for this sort of thing since it doesn't even know what orientation is, only affects the joint rotations, and therefore can't mess it up. Since you're using a bona fide retargeter, it already knows about the twist bones and should bake the BVH correctly.

You know the saying "if it works do not touch"!
I saw that the route I did through exporting from MVN ANIMATE to MotionBuilder as an FBX file and applying it to G8 in MotionBuilder and exporting back to DAZ now works great for me. Having corrected the same things I wrote about in the last post and this is what I need.
I guess if I do the same process in 3DXchange and finally make the same changes I wrote in the last post it will also work fine.
But I must note that I have already tried to export from 3DXchange in BVH format and it did not solve the problem.
Anyway I promise to sit down and watch all the videos of @ wolf359 to learn and discover more things I do not know