Hexagon should go triple A
Ademnus
Posts: 744
Fix the bugs, polish the UI, add some features -and take Hexagon out a whole new door. In all frankness, as I sit here trying to learn 3dsMax I reflect on the intuitive, simple, UI and tools in Hexagon that make modeling enjoyable and with a good workflow. I don't know how people use 3ds, honestly. I'm watching a "simple tutorial" as making a pretty basic shape takes navigation through menu after non-intuitive menu, often containing dozens and dozens of items. I can't eve figure out how to select 2 lines at the same time lol. Seriously, with a cooler looking interface that operates just as it does now, with the added features it needs to be a full-featured 3d modeling, rendering and animation package, exporting .x and every other format everything demands, Hex could kick max and maya and even lightwave aside just out of sheer user friendliness. Why does everything have to be so overcomplicated! Personally, I love Hexagon.
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Comments
sadly this will never happen. hexagon was contracted out to a third party for development, then sold. the original group that made it probably doesn't even exist anymore.
for there to be a new hexagon, daz would have to contract an entirely new development phase. but there's a lot of competition too; the last hex came out in what...2008? That's over 7 years ago. a lot has changed in the modelling world. and even despite all of this, they also have to know the direction they'd like to go with it; and daz has no clue what direction that'd be.
but rest assured if they ever did come out with hex3, I have a new logo ready ;) (for a small fee of course)
That's a problem I see. If Daz does get a new group together to update Hex, the changes to the nice interface that Hex has now would probably go down the tube in favor of a more 3ds type style. I could easily see the new group sitting around a table discussing the update, thinking that in order to compete with the more advanced 3d modeling softwares, it needs to look and function like them as well.
well the thing is, daz is a very different company these days. it makes the majority of its money from content sales, not software. it has zero interest in making any new software, let alone updating existing software.
Actually that makes it the exact same company as it always was. In the beginning there was no software just content. Studio was created as a safety net so that there would be a customer base for content if something went squirly with poser. It took off and has been used to further increase content sales. The only glitch there was when someone had a bright idea of selling it for a bit. Light was soon seen though and it was back to free status. That said I'm not sure they would have taken on the level up upgrades with out that sales concept so it had it's up side. When DAZ bought hex they sold it cheap to plat members. I think I paid 2.99 for it. Why did they want it in as many hands as possible? So that some of those people would eventually produce content.
I'm not sure if there is any logic in them attempting to compete with more advanced software with Hex. It isn't the market they aim for. It's slot is to be a good starter modeler for the customers here not to draw customers away from the big name complex modelers.
Honestly, all they need to do is a bit of buffing up to clean up the major errors and they would be fine. I'm just not sure that they have anyone on staff who is capable of that currently or if there are some other issues that are holding them back.
Well, it may be that the original coders weren't that experienced in that the code is poorly written that in order to update and remove the bugs, could require a complete rewrite anyway. (Not saying this is what is, just that I could be a possibility. I've seen it before when companies change dev teams)
So far I've managed to work through the quirks of it, but would love to see it updated so I know I'll still be able to use it in the future.
I found that making Hex Large Address Aware (LAA) solved many of my crashes, so it can use more than 2Gb of ram. Hex seems to like a lot more available memory than you might expect for the number of polys that you are working with. Even running it as LAA, Hex tops out at just over 3Gb of memory usage before it becomes unresponsive.
Another related issue is that it is a 32-bit application, and its not a trivial matter to make an application 64-bit.
Its probably not worth the trouble to update it unless Daz would price a new 64-bit version with improved UV mapping/unwrapping like the original $200 selling price when Hex first came out.
For less complex work, its still a great application, but I find I can't use it for a lot of my work because it can't handle large files.
Interesting. I've never heard of making a program LAA. How does one do that?
I got my PC updated to 64 bit last year, in response I was given this advice (which includes LAA) -
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/46887/
Hex does work smoother now, less crashes, but that may have something to do with me not trying the impossible :)
Thank you for the link :)
So far the only issues I've had with Hex (I really don't do a whole lot yet, mostly model editing)
Of course, the "not responding" crashes
Average weld sometimes crashes (Not sure why, but it's definitely not a random incident as it will always be the same 2 pieces that fail to weld and crash Hex)
Once in a while selection stops working and I've got to close and reopen Hex.
I'd like to say I'm pretty good with computers, but most other 3d modeling software has confused the bajesus out of me. I've tried 3dsMax, Blender, I believe Maya at one point but Hex has been the easiest to pick up and use by far!
Back on topic:
I would obviously love for Hex to get an update and I keep hoping to hear that one is in the works, but only if whatever Dev team Daz put together stayed with the current look, feel and ease of use that Hex currently has.
Before I ever got started in 3d I used to read up on the subject mostly by buying magazines and I remember when Hexagon first appeared. In those day Cinema4d wasn't too expensive for the basic module and programs such as Carrara (I think) and Truespace were quite expensive. There was a program called Amapi which was very expensive and it seemed to die the death with Hexagon becoming its replacement. At that time I was weighing up all these programs and remember thinking how good Hexagon looked and I supposed it to be a 'state of the art' development.
Since then I've learned to use it and love it and am sad to think of it being abandoned.
Unfortunately, I think that's what has happened. In the Bryce forum, there is currently a discussion: 'Is Bryce Dead or Alive?'
In one post, attention is drawn to the DAZ Vice President of Marketing being interviewed in the DAZ3d magazine. On page 20 he says that further Hexagon development is not likely.
http://issuu.com/philatdsc/docs/ds_creative_09
He speaks about exciting new things to appear which could, for optimists, be a hint that something will replace it but I think Hexagon will be left as it is.
The only way a new hexagon will be developed is
1) get the rights for further development
2) fund the development
3) profit
but if you're going to fund it, you might as well not even bother buying the rights and create a whole new program with a different name.
as for making hex available for content to be sold in the daz store being their primary motivation for making hex, well.......hex is heavily outdated....so it's not really doing that, certainly nowhere near what it could be even with some minor updates.
as for bryce, it hasn't changed all that much in 20 years. the same basic features are all there. but it is soo inefficient processing wise, that it's virtually useless. renders that take a few seconds or minutes in other programs, take 20 times longer in bryce.
Wait...DAZ DOESN'T own Hexagon anymore? Who owns it?
--Walt Sterdan
DAZ 3D still own Hexagon and still sell Hexagon in the store.
Daz do not own Hexagon, certainly not all of it*
Daz do not sell Hexagon, they sell licences to customers who are then allowed, via that license (with added restrictions via EULA) to install and use Hexagon.
*On the old forum, the subject of making Hexagon open_source was mentioned. One of the Daz staff replied, that if Hexagon was ever to be made open_source, a lot of the code would need to be removed. That would indicate that DAZ do not own the code, but only have licence for parts of it.
Daz do not own Hexagon, certainly not all of it*
Daz do not sell Hexagon, they sell licences to customers who are then allowed, via that license (with added restrictions via EULA) to install and use Hexagon.
*On the old forum, the subject of making Hexagon open_source was mentioned. One of the Daz staff replied, that if Hexagon was ever to be made open_source, a lot of the code would need to be removed. That would indicate that DAZ do not own the code, but only have licence for parts of it.
To save any arguments and speculation along these lines, I will amend my statement to say that Hexagon is still one of DAZ 3D's stable of programs and is still sold in the DAZ 3D store.
I work with 3DS max and I have just bought Hex and to be honest I prefer working in hex, if it was not for the crashing out.
I thought that it was a fully working product thats why i bought it, reading up in this thread it seems the last version was brought out 7 years ago? is this true?
omg did i just waste my money?
it is sad that daz will not give hex any love, people are running out daily it seems looking for that new easy to use modeller.. steam offering modo and maya for a small subscription fee has helped a few that have a budget constraint.. but i can say after trying out both, i keep reinstalling hex.
I am pushed constantly by friends to go for blender, bleh tried it , thought my eyeballs were going to fall out.
it should be a no brainer for daz, if they want more content to sell, provide a modelling solution that allows for more content to be made.
I was elated when they bought out hex years ago... and its sad, they only continued to work on carrara, when both hex and carrara together offer worlds of freedom in making some dazzleing things.
at this point i wish they really would move the hex features into carrara or continue to work on it. but its sort of wishing on one hand and a bird pooping in another, wich will fill up faster?
but there is some hope deep inside me that they will give it some love.
I've tried Max and Blender and now Hex. Hex is by far the easiest to pick up and start working with while there are tons I still don't know about it, I've been able to get so much further than either of the other 2. I've yet to be able to figure anything out in blender and Max is just way too expensive for me to buy just to try to learn it.
They've got something real good with Hex, I just hope they realize it soon.
Only you can answer that question, but I'd say it's a pretty good deal for the cost of two lunches.
Daz do not own Hexagon, certainly not all of it*
DAZ owns all of Hexagon. Like many pieces of software Hexagon uses libraries from other vendors to get stuff done. You can't open source something that you don't own, so any third-party libraries used in a closed source product like Hexagon can't be open sourced by the licensees of those libraries, only by the owners of those libraries. Hexagon uses closed source libraries from Solid Modeling Solutions for its core modeling functionality. So if you open sourced Hexagon, it wouldn't really be all that useful because you'd still need to get those closed source libraries.
This is just one of the difficulties of turning a closed source application into an open source application. If you intentionally stick to open source libraries for everything from the beginning, then it is easier. However, a solid modeling kernel is a non-trivial library to write and maintain and that's why the best ones are commercial offerings. This is the kind of library you hire several people with PhDs to write and maintain. I've worked with those guys before and they really know their stuff. It's highly specialized knowledge.
They have known that since they bought it from Eovia, other wise they wouldn't have bought it :)
Sadly, it doesn't fit in with the new direction taken over the past few years.
I think we should start a petition that DAZ please OPEN SOURCE Hexagon. At least then we can get some crowd sourcing to fund a update to 64bit.
sorry they can't do that !
license with other company .
I would hate to see it open source. No set changes, 20 different versions all doing different things, some working some not. It would just be a big mess.
Don't worry, it will never happen. bigh has the right of it.
IMO, open source isn't all it's cracked up to be. I mean, blender is open source and you guys don't seem to like that very much :-). I work on a bunch of open source projects by myself and all of them had other people who assured me that they would contribute, even though they didn't. That's OK, because I am doing those open source projects for my own reasons that satisfy me, but things sure would go faster if other people contributed.
Save yourself some "needless speculation" and take a look at this http://issuu.com/philatdsc/docs/ds_creative_09, pages 20-21. An interview with Steve Spencer, VP marketing at Daz and make of it what you will :)
yeah, that had nothing to do with Hexagon at all except 1 sentence where the question was about ALL Daz products and all that was stated was that Daz was the main focus. Nothing specifically about Hex, Bryce, Cararra or anything else.
Read para 13 carefully:)