Advice on a snow scene
3dLux
Posts: 1,231
Because I live in a tropical country where there's no snow, I have no frame of reference for how the following scene should look and am asking for advice.
Background information: the set is powerage's Old Town Bordeaux and from what I've seen on Wiki, it doesn't seem to snow much there. But I do want the snow and the scene is from a world where Humans and fantasy races co-exist: the driver/bodygaurd is Dajenksta's Orken.
Not sure if that information is enough.
Anyways, here is the scene:
Thanks for looking!
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Comments
Living in a northern country, we deal with snow 4-5 months a year. Snow is like sand it gets blown around by the wind as well as fall and stay on horizontal surfaces. Ledges and the top of posts would have snow. Now snow usually gets shovelled off roads and walkways and placed in piles off to the side, but its usually left at sidewalk curbs. Car tires also leave tracks in freshly falling snow.
Looking at the walls with patches of windblown snow, the ground doesn't have corresponding amount.
The surface of the road and walkways should be visible only at the tiretracks and the area cleared for people walking, otherwise everything covered by snow.
Where-ever the ground and any walls meet, there should be snowpile 'smoothing' the transition
Quick search gave me this
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Isokatu_Oulu_20190106.jpg
I think the snow piles in the second picture look really unnatural in both shape and where they are placed. The first image looks better without them in my opinion but the trees in the first one have way too much snow on them if there is only a thin layer of snow. I would tone down the snow effect on the trees. If you google image search "first day of snow" you can get some pretty good reference images. Also, snow when it hits the pavement will melt initially and make everything wet so you could add top coat with a low roughness to give the road and sidewalk more of a wet look.
And snow in the road is brown. I'd say "dirty slush" but if you don't know snow, you might not know slush. It's partially melted, filled with dirt and road oils. The brown is sort of like light brown sugar used for baking, and the slush sort of behaves like semi-wet brown sugar. And it's very textured, with soft peaks, ruts, squooshed areas, and is never flat. The road surface visible in the tire tracks is wet and shiny. However, the slush in the road usually melts away first (because of the vehicle heat, and the slush's dark color absorbing heat) or is scraped away by the snowplows, so wet streets are acceptible. And the snow scraped to the side is mondo dirty and the older it gets, the dirtier it gets because all that dirt in the snow concentrates at the surface of the pile as it melts. Street snow is ugly. But sometimes in DAZ work we want to get away from reality so perhaps just a few spots of darker discoloration on the piles of street snow.
Building, ground, and tree snow is pretty. Street snow is dirty.
A few hours after a good 4 inch (10cm) snowstorm would quickly result in about an inch of slush on busy city streets. After a day or so, the slush melts, drains away and the streets are clear & dry again leaving only the piles of grimy, filthy, ugly snow poop scraped to the side by the snowplows.
Welcome to life in the north.
To me the first image with a little more snow on the ground - perhaps using a geoshell & opacity map - looks pretty good and natural, even if one can quibble with some of the details if one looks really close.
The piles in the 2nd render don't quite make sense.
It does snow from time to time in Bordeaux.
The first pic is rather good IMO, but there should be more snow on the ground given how much there is elsewhere. More on sidewalks than on the road, but since it's snowing in the pic there should be a bit on the road too with tire tracks.
@3dLux
If you get, or have seen, sandstorms then think how that looks after it has passed, only white :)
It's often the case that those big snowpiles hang about for weeks after the rest of the snow has melted as a matter of fact. Particularly if sidewalks, driveways, and streets have been salted, which they even do in the US even as far south as I live.
@CHWT @FirstBastion @PerttiA @RobotHeadArt @LeatherGryphon @Hylas @Leana @Fishtales @nonesuch00
Many thanks to you all for taking the time and sharing your input, experience and observation. I now have a better idea of how to work out the scene.
@Fishtales No sandstorms here; the closest thing to that was the ashfall from a volcanic eruption in 1991 (30 years ago). We were shooting a commercial back then (I was the copywriter) and the set was an enclosed basketball court. When it wrapped and we left the set, it did look like grey snow. Looking at pictures of the ashfall close to the epicenter and the damage it did is still traumatic even now.
The advice and observations are invaluable: when I was a kid we lived in Madison, WI but that was more than 50 years ago and my memories of snow are foggy (pun intended). Pictures and movies can’t prepare one for the reality of it: when we went to Sapporo for the Winter Festival (a year before the pandemic) the enormity and pervasiveness of snow was otherworldly to me. Two or three days later was also the first time I felt I would never be warm again.
Once again, thank you to everyone for weighing in; will work on the scene and put the revised version here.
You all rock!
Don't forget to post your "final" results!
Materia Meshmaker from Alessandro in the store could help you if you have plenty of snow scenes to do. It's the best to add "real" snow where ever you want !
Both scenes looks great I might not use the bottom one & a add little fog and some wet snow to the top one
I live in the mountains in NE Tennessee so we experiences everything from wet heavy snow,, thick Ice and Cold fluffy snow.
I made a lot of snowy scenes in this animations . :)
The main thing I noticed was the ledges of the window sills. With that much snow it would be piled there, particularly if the snow was indeed blowing. That's already been mentioned, so really just want to say you did a really nice job with just a few tweaks to be considered.
@smaker1 In the first picture the snow on the tress is from AM’s Materia Meshmaker. I also tried it on Limousine Prince and it came out okay but some of the blobs went through the car. While I could create a new material zone for each blob then set the cutout opacity to 0 to hide it, it was way more work for such a little return. As this is still a work in progress I may yet return the snow to the trees and/or use Materia Meshmaker in in subsequent scenes. “Real” snow is desirable and I may have found a solution where the snow won’t pass through an object.
@Ivy Thanks for the input, did a test which includes fog and I like it; may have to restore the snow on the trees if the overall look of the scene is more snowy.
@Novica Thanks for the kind words and added snow to the window sills, which wasn’t as painful as I thought it would be. Luckily I had props in my Runtime for the purpose; am also considering a snow kitbash pack from turbosquid, which has 71 pcs and is UV mapped so I can retexture, if necessary. It’s pricey at $35.00 (sale price from $40.00) but may be worth the investment as I have other snow scenes.
@Chumly Not final but here’s the scene with more snow on the ground, window sills and with fog in the last one. The snow on the ground can be tweaked so it looks dirtier.
Thanks for the inputs everyone; any thoughts on these?
Looks pretty good, I like the top one better. The fog in the bottom one would need more snow falling down
I live in Canada. Six months of winter, and 6 months of bad snow mobiling.
Lower one is better since you will often have vision being limited by distance like a fog. If the lights are on, its evening. A sunset in the north can take HOURS. (Sunset isn't sudden like at the equator.) Anyways, you can try going a little darker for the overall environment light. It'll let other colors pop more.
Hmm... Top one would be more towards the daylight. Less foggy. You might also add a little yellow (as in not much) to the light. You would also turn off most exterior lights, including the headlights on the car.
The law here is 'driving lights' are required to be on for all cars when driving. They tend be less bright than you have.
bottom one looks more realistic, although I've been outside in bright light and snowy surrounds too
Distance part look convincing, but foreground doesn't look right.
There's a snow add-on for blender btw, perhaps export the objs; it's included in default download of Blender and just needs enabling.
Both look great!
I've experienced either weather; relatively clear air with just a few snow flakes falling (the 1st one), and borderline-snowstorms where the air becomes all milky (2nd one).
The former makes you excited anout the winter, the latter makes you shudder and not want to leave the house under any circumstances.
I don't seem to have any snow falling urban images but these were taken on a camping/fishing trip. One was a heavy shower and the other light.
I am certainly not and expert, because if it looks like that outside, I stay inside.
(I hate snow and all things cold)
That being said, I like the bottom one... but both make me cold just looking at them... brrrrr!
@Ivy I loved “Dreaming of Simpler Times” (forgot to add this in the previous post): I find it soothing, comforting and touching. In another thread you mentioned you animate in D|S; was any work done in post like the snowfall? Did you use Flink’s snowfall?
@nicstt Thanks for the tip; while I did enable the snow add-on, I’m still in the process of watching Surfaced Studio’s Blender tutorial for absolute beginners. Hopefully after that I’ll now enough to be able to use the add on.
@Fishtales Many thanks for the reference pictures! The way the scene's evolving it may wind up looking like the heavy shower or this one:
@CHWT @PerttiA @UHF @nonesuch00 @Hylas @Chumly thanks muchly for the input, kind words and observations! The people posting here have helped improve the scene immensely.
There’s a saying (which I’d told my classes time and again pre-pandemic) that a frame must be taken in the context of the frames that precede and succeed it. I apologize for not providing those at the start of the post.
The scene is meant to be a night one (as the succeeding shots show; those will need to be adjusted to match the first frame in terms of snowfall, snow on the ground and buildings, etc.) The first frame’s lighting was adjusted to bring it more in line with the rest of the scene and had the result of making the fog version darker than I wanted it to be. I also tweaked the color of the vehicle as the midnight black tended to not be as visible at night; I did like both the original color and fog, but making the car and its occupants was the priority.
While I’m still learning how to use Blender I found another solution to put snow on the car, although I’m not sure if it has too much snow now.
Here’s the first frame and the other frames that follow, the latter will be adjusted to match the first in terms of snow.
And if I can previal upon your kindness and patience: the reverse of the last frame shows the passenger. Would love to hear thoughts on the background as well as the eyelights
Thanks to all who have posted; you've helped a lot
On the top picture, everything else is spot on, but as you said the snow on the car is too thick. It would be just a thin layer at that point (based on the surroundings), with some on the windscreen (outside the area kept clean by the wipers)
The ambient light seems too bright for a night scene. What are you using for that?
I prefer the eye highlights in image 2.
There is no snow under the car so if you keep the depth on the car then you will need to increase it all around it on the road. There would also be piles on the ground either side of the car where the driver cleared the windscreen, it is an offence to drive with impaired vision if it isn't clear, and bodywork. He would clear it off the bonnet and roof as when he was driving it could come off and blind him when it covered the windscreen and when he had to brake suddenly the snow on the roof would slide forward and also cover the windscreen. It could also blow off and blind a driver following the car and cause an accident.
I like this picture a lot very rockwell looking.. The pictures would have really benefited from a little denser fog and some added lens flare in postwork to up the realistic value :)
Thank you for the complement. as well.. You may have already watched.. But if you clicked that picture of "dreaming of simpler times" it was a embedded animation I have posted on YouTube I had made for a holidays contest last year . , The snow was created by a old tool called Blowing Snow tool by NERDS3d that use to be sold here years ago. its no longer available anywhere. it was made forolder copies of daz studio & poser. But I have since rewritten the files and changes the textures for Iray to work with daz studio 4. As I have with most of my animation tools. Animation is my primary interest with daz studio that is about all i do with it anymore now days.
there is no snow in this video. But I released this video last night . something fun to watch. completely created and rendered in daz studio 4.16
Click to play , best viewed in 1080HD
Went looking for some reference pictures that would fit the amount of snowfall and found these
@Fishtales Hi Sandy, I’m using KA’s Ghost Light Kit for the ambient lighting: I blow the horizontal light up to a huge size and point it down, kind of like a silk; it’s something I’ve done for other night scenes. Based on your observation I’ve scaled the Luminance down to 30 kcd/m2 from the original 100. I’ve also added snow to the ground and gotten rid of the snow piles on the vehicle.
Thanks for the input on the eye highlights!
@Ivy the scene now has denser fog (as dense as it can be for KA’s Iray Blizzard set). Good call on the lens flare; looked through ThePhilosopher’s Epic Props: Dynamic Lens Flare & Starburst for Iray but given the lighting of the scene went with Fuseling’s FSL Easy Lens Flare & Bokeh instead.
Thanks for the link to the video; will watch it when I get up as it’s now 1.22 AM on my side of the world (the Philippines)
@PerttiA Many, many thanks for the reference pictures and input; the car now has a thinner layer of snow although it may not be readily apparent given the darkness of the scene. While I’ve been able to get a layer of snow on the body, I haven’t been able to successfully do the same for the windscreen; I did try KA’s SurfaceWorx but it had the effect of acting like a soft focus filter on the passengers . Any ideas for that?
Thankies muchly to you three for the advice, any thoughts on this latest version: not sure if it’s too dark now and if I went overboard with the snow; this is actually the second attempt as I’ve lessened the snow from but it still might be a too much. In addition to KA’s snow I’ve also used Flink’s Snowfall and converted it to Iray to match.
PS Just thought of a way to get the snow on the vehicle to be more visible and am testing it out now.
- Jaime from the Philippines