PRIMAVERA HAIR Colour Problem
Fauvist
Posts: 2,152
in The Commons
Primavera Hair is dForce, and I have no problem with that. What I can't figure out is how to change the colour of the hair. When I use the hair model on Genesis 8 Female, I can change the colour. When I use the hair on Genesis 3 Female, I can't change the colour. I have a feeling it has something to do with the Hierarchical Material Presets. How do I change the colour when the hair is on Genesis 3 Female?
The hair has:
Material Options:
- 14 Black Hierarchical Material Presets
- 19 Blonde Hierarchical Material Presets
- 17 Brown Hierarchical Material Presets
- 26 Red Hierarchical Material Presets
- dFPVH Apply Normal Map
- dFPVH Glosiness Default
- dFPVH Glosiness Low
- dFPVH Glosiness Medium
- dFPVH Remove Normal Map
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Comments
That is exactly why you can't change it, it is Hierarchical. What I do is load it on the figure it was made for, apply the color and then save as a material preset to apply later.
I am still trying to figure out who told the PAs that anything Hierarchical is beneficial in any way.
...I just use Slosh's UHT2: Ultimate Color to get around the issue.
A Hierachical Material Preset allows you to have one preset to apply to a number of items in a hierachical structure (i.e., parented one to the other), instead of having one for each object (think of a vest with 12 buttons on Rigid Follow Nodes). dForce hair always has a base and then the actual hair is parented to it. You do have control over which objects' materials are included by selecting/deselecting them in the Save Options dialog, but the hierarchy used goes all the way to the root element, even if no materials are saved for it. Since the base figure usually has the various parts parented to it, it will always be included in the hierarchy when saving the preset.
It does not matter what you use, or how you try to load it later, the Hierachical Material preset will always want the base it was saved with to be present, or at least something with the same ID. This is, to me, a weakness in the way it is implemented, but it can be worked around. You can define a null or a group with the same Name as the original figure (i.e., Genesis8Female, Genesis8_1Female, etc.) and a Label (what is shown in the scene tab, eg., "Genesis 8 Female Proxy") to help distinguish it in the scene, and parent the objects to it instead. They will remain fit to the original figure, so there will be no loss of functionality. No need to re-save all the existing presets.
If it were to be done properly, the preset would start at the base object of those to which the materials are meant to apply, with no other higher nodes included. To do this with the current system, the target hierarchy would need to be un-parented from the base figure (again, it will still be fit to it) and then saved as a hierarchical material preset. This will ensure that the root element is the actual object of interest.
The target object can then be loaded as intended (which normally parents it to the base figure), and the hierarchical material presets will work properly regardless of what it is attached to, since it will not try to look any farther than the hierarchy it was saved with.
Thanks! That is really useful information.
That's a lot for me to absorb, so I'll have to read it a couple of more times. Thanks for the detailed answer.
...I recently found out that many of the textures for G8 characters have hierarchical materials and thus prevent "backwards compatibility" with say G3 which uses the same UV mapping. Discovered that when I converted a G8 character to G3 and then tried to apply a G8 skin to it. Part of this makes me wonder if it isn't because of the fact G8 eyebrows and lashes can be loaded separately as well whereas with G3 and earlier they were always included as part of the skin.
Thankfully I have Skin Builder2
Yes, it is for the lashes (and brows, and sometimes the anatomical elements). You can of course use them on the older figures by saving a regular materials preset from Genesis 8 or 8.1.
Well, not necessarily from 8.1.
How does one MAKE a hierarchical preset? I did a search and found a script. Is that the only way? I have a few freebies where it would actually be beneficial ;)
Laurie
It's one of the Save As options, third from the top:
Load the items of interest and apply any materials you need. Select the base node of the hierarchy you want to use (with my recommendations if you want it independent of the base figure, or not), then from the Menu -> File -> Save As... -> Hierarchical Material(s) Preset... You will be prompted for a location and filename for the preset, so you should be prepared (folder, naming conventions...). Next, in the Save Options dialog box, select the elements for which you want to save the materials. It will be saved in the folder you selected with the filename you supplied in the previous step.
Geeze..talk about not seeing the forest for the trees...lol. I totally ignore stuff I never use and just figured there was no easy way to do it. Never thought of looking for the obvious.
Don't mind me...I'm old. LOL.
Thank you.
Laurie
...I'll just stick to Skin Builder for now as I generally don't use characters out of the box "as is". It still seems to contradict the "backwards compatibility" claim as you cant just simply click on a G8 skin and use it on a G3 character or even a G8 one converted to G3.
There's no contradiction, because that's not what backwards compatibility means.
Backwards compatibility does not mean that content for a new figure will work on older figures.
Redacted
...the issue about the maps is that both G3 and G8 use the same skin map base so technically they should be interchangeable either way, at the very least, for G8 characters converted to G3 through Riversoft Art's character conversion script. What is breaking it here are hierarchical elements (namely as Richard mentioned the eyelashes and eyebrows) that are now separate components and for ease of loading caused the need to set up skins as hierarchical presets. I can understand it with something like Primavera Hair which has a number of different layers or a very complex set of clothing, but just eyebrows and eyelashes.
Hierachal presets are great actually especially things like lindays hairs that use multiple geometry shells having 5 sets of material presets for each layer would in no way, shape, or form be easier to use.
with that said they do save with whatever is at the top of the hierarchy required (no element other than the top is required It isn't actually the eyebrows or eyelashes causing the error but the fact that the base figure is not named genesis 8)
as such there is a workaround for clothing hair etc that uses hierarchal presets - make sure whatever it is isnt parented to a figure when you make the presets - I just made a bunch of hierarchal presets for a dress and I had the dress unparented when I saved them and they still work when autofitted to another figure. (with a second object parented to the dress) this workaround does not work for characters obviously
I do also feel like this is potentially something that could improve with how DS reads hierarchal presets at some point. It would be nice if instead of just failing out of had if the names don't match perfectlyIt tried to apply materials regardless - the way material presets currently do.
Redacted
tbf it might not be as easy as just doing it - given that that is how normal material presets work I *highly* doubt the DS powers that be are doing it this way just for the fun of it.
I think its more likely that they are aware but have not yet found a good way to do it
...so a converted G8 character is a no go then even though both base figures use the exact same UV mapping.
It's the SceneID, the base asset, that matters.