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Question about cutout opacity setting. So I really wanted the eyebrows to remain dark so I created a mask for them and put that in the Cutout Opacity channel and sure enough it works but I'm still getting that initial freaky trancparency thing where you can see allot of the interior of the model. So I guess that's still the norm with this sort of thing?
If there's a better way let me know
Thanks!
You need to put it into the "Translucency Color" texture slot, if you haven't already a diffuse texture there. If you have one, you won't need a mask. Cutout Opacity is for TransMaps. That's why you can see into your characters' head.
@Arnold C.
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i know - it was also just a example how to get rid of the problem... Phsyic is somehwere limited when there is no peach fuzz and microstructur to stop this anoying reflections
Clear is - in base and all other glossiness modes - F90 is to high for skin....and that is very good to see on the marbles... while on a character setup.. we all just adapt to the lightsituation.. turning glossiness down or roughness up... till it looks good for ONE render....
Fresnel schlick is a approximation which dosent work so well on skin - but works phantastic on metals and all kind of other hard materials...
i just testing the marble settings from above on a model.. looking good... including backscattering with 0.8 backscatter glossines, weigthed 0.2,,,,,,the texture is still my "test" environement.. and a lot is not right.. but maybe i upload one in a while...
However my settings with max glossiness 0.8 on nose.. and 0.7 for general skin seems to react now like they should in physic
That's just the first try.. it migh be that i set f90 to a real value later when a fully working bump is ready... how would you set F90 ?
Great, thank you. So it's white background, black brows sort of set up or is it the oposite? Also do I leave the color pure white or should I put that to black? I'm seeing that unwanted shine that I wanted to get rid of to keep the brows looking as stark as possible.
Thanks again for the help!
white background and black brows for masking translucency is right.
That's true. FSchlick is a bit limited, no total internal reflection simulation possible. At least not with the default aproximation. And I'm not sure if the modified one will work in Iray/Iray Uber.
Yep, seems Eugene d’Eon's recommendation for the roughness parameter is something one can work with.
I'd use a value of 0.999999999961 for the F(90°) and try to adjust it with the exponent. You won't have a true FSchlick then, but you'll still be in the green with the grazing reflection value.
But adjusting it with the exponent is cheating as well :-)...
Thanks Andy
Like Andy says.
For a caucasian character I would (and am) use the diffuse texture in the Translucency Color texture slot and set the color to something between RGB 240 and 252, depending on how "tanned" your figure should look like. You can also adjust a lower translucency weight if you want a lighter skintone... 0.45 or 0.40. One shouldn't go lower than 0.40 'cause below that is where african heritage skin's translucency resides (at around 0.25).
I'm not sure if the "shine" you mention comes from the translucence but is more depending on the "Glossy Roughness" or "Glossiness" you've set your skin to. That's why I recommend a map (either GlossMap or RoughMap, depending on the mix one uses) to determine different strengths of that parameter. We (I) will publish a tutorial to make one when we finally have settled out, which method to create skin will be best.
...is there a way to lighten Iray Skin maps that come with characters? Just got Teen Josie and her complexion using the Iry skin is darker than what I need for a specific character. Ended up swapping over to the 3DL map then asjusting the SSS parameters after which I applied the base Iray shader but that was a fiarly involved workaround.
So is using Disney-Methods on the Iray Uber layout... And we're unfortunately not able to undisneyfy it all.
That would depend of what Josie you're talking about. 6 or 7? 7's "darkness" is more likely to be a result of the red color for translucency and SSS map they use. Doesn't make much sense on a texture which already has "subsurface bloody tissue" implemented in the diffuse map. That thought they didn't think entirely through.
@kyoto kid ...
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As Arnold said you can do a lot with the translucency color... and weight...
remove all not really needed maps.. no sss maps, no translucency maps ...
just two examples same settings just switched off translucency for the light, pale skin... sorry just some iterations to show the difference i am in the middle of F90 testing
if you dont need really red ears in backlight on your model- just try to set translucency weight lower to about 0.3 - 0.4... and use a bright color.
Boah, you got a Ferrari F90?!? That reveals: Andy's the Sultan of Brunei...
@kyoto kid
If anything else is done, and still too dark... there's even Photoshop to lighten up your texture.
You can use the Image Editor in the desired map and lower the Image Gamma, the lower the gamma the lighter the image(0 means auto gamma).
(Images removed. Please don't show copyrighted images in the forum such as texture maps.)
ok.. here a little bit more about backscattering.... i knew i did it allready months ago
Share Glossy Inputs OFF
The image one shows backscattering with weight 0.5. For demonstration i used a pink so that it is clear to see what it does on complex geometry...
the paramter backscattering glossiness should be set very low (narrow)... using here about 0.1... now we can see that the most saturated pink is around the nostrils, chin... and other contoures which are in the shadow....
Now set the backscattering color to something very close as the transmitted color is - if you can, use tad brighter and maybe a little bit more yellowish but CLOSE to transmitted color... and lower the weight to the point where you can see it just on nostrils and chinlines...
here you go image 2 - the same is actually there in nature - and on chinlines with a thin peach fuzz very good to see..
Roughness to Glossiness in DAZ Iray
Mentioned but forgotten in my IRAY PBR formula collection above:
PBR MR using Disney Roughness or a close variation..PBR SG the normal roughness scale . (this is the additional sqrt(roughness) block in our shader)...That means we can not simple invert glossines maps and use them in MR and vice versa!
Still looking for the right formula....
You guys are terrifying me. I am 55. I do not do math. I change stuff at random and see what happens, which is really inefficient.
I am in awe of you all.
I am 52 and passed O level maths with flying colours but I haven't used it for near on 35 years and lost it. :) I am not in awe, just grateful that we have wonderful community members that are willing to share and work together in a common cause.
@Damsel & Szark
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i am 49.. my last math lesson is 25y ago.. or in other words... welcome in the club (that's why it toke me 6 months till i kicked myself - somehwere hidden in my brain there must be some math parts - and slowly i find them again
I do this to get rid of my trial and error knowledge in PBR.. one of my problems was.. why i can not use material charts from other PBR engines.. Marmortools as example...or Substance painter...
Why do they differ so much... why can PAs even now after 6 Months not come up with a simple but correct IRAY skin... the answer is in a handfull formulas which they and everybody else must know to convert Maps and Values....
Soon everything is together... the last missing link is how to convert roughness/glossines in IRay.
So I'm still pulling my hair out over the edges of Vicky 7's nostrils being too dark when viewed from close to 90º. I have tested extensively with backscattering to no avail (although it does seem to help with areas such as the temples that are reflecting too much specular). I tried flattening out the color in the diffuse map as a long shot, knowing it would have no effect. I have created very rough normal maps (thinking maybe that would help break it up). I am starting to come to the conclusion that the woman is just stuck looking like she has been wearing a clown nose for far too long which left permanent dark colored creases in her skin.
In my frustration, I'm wondering something though. Are we certain that Iray is applying the fresnal calculations at the boundary when there are no other layers involved (i.e. a top coat)? In the real world, we know that the light is passing from air to the skin. In Iray world, however, is that same assumption made and accounted for? In playing around with the math, if Iray were to plug a zero in for the IOR of the medium the light is coming from (instead of 1.0003 for air), you end up with a F(90) reflectivity of -1 (instead of -0.1835285475 when using air as the first medium). In a linear number space, I'm thinking that results in a pretty dark value. Of course, my math and my understanding of all this could be very faulty.
In the top coat you can set your own Fresnel custom inputs and exponent curve...
There you can set F(90) for n1 (air)... and F(0) for n2.skin.. and you have the exponent to control (and cheat physic) even further...It does help a little bit... backscattering does help a little bit too...
all this little bits add up ... it has also to do with translucency and sss.... i started to use them higher for tests to get rid of the plastic doll look (to dark contours)..
At the end we will need a "thickness map" for translucency weight and a color translucency map" .... aka set translucency color for the nostril lines very bright and strong for this effect!
you can give it a try - just paint the nostril lines in the diffuse map close to a yellowish white and use this map in the translucency color slot.
Yeah I don't like the trial and error method but I have been doing that for 6 years now. LOL I make images like this http://www.daz3d.com/gallery/#images/97405 to give me a better understanding. I have been reading up on Surface Painter and I will be buying it in the new year and I have learnt a lot from doing so. But SP is not a rendering solution but a surface maker and cannot do transparency of SSS etc. What I do want is to find somewhere were I can learn the MDL, a place that will educate me, even for a fee. But as of yet I haven't found one.
I'm 50 and I swore off higher math for Lent 30 yrs ago and haven't gone back...
LOL
I did also look into those programms and i dont see a need to use them
i prefer traditional maps (workflow), by nature i pick the specualr/glossiness workflow and that's why i am happy with mudbox and photoshop...
For SKIN/characters.. i dont see the slightest advantage using a PBR paint software.. because all maps must be painted anyway manualy - ... and that's why i am happy with Mudbox and photoshop.
MDL - well it is a "simple" object oriented, script/programming language.. if you never scripted or coded something then it is difficult..
I dont see a reason to learn it - except if you like to create a complete unique skinshader...(which wont improve what we have in IrayUber much)....everything what can be done with MDL is allready in the IrayUbershader.(all layers are there)....
If you like to manipulate a layer path you can simple add a math block between slots in DAZ shader mixer.
Or you can remove (delete) - everything what you dont need - and create a small, slick material shader...(right in the shader mixer).
I would never use SP for skin, that we agree on.
Learning MDL or even the Shader Mixer is what I would like to do for myself. I have played with 3DL Shader mixer and Blender's node system but again it is the math that gets me all the time.
well .. why not learn math again or better then
? there are tons of online courses.. a lot for free...(i think i wll do so too over the next months, i am shocked that i forgotten simplest algebra rules 
I have thought about for sometime now...about time I made my mind up and get it done.
Just turned 48 less than a month ago.
19th anniversary of my "retrial" coming up end this month.
If you would've told my former math teacher about the formulas we juggle here, she'd name you a liar at best and phone for an asylum stay for you at worst...
But it was her fault, she didn't explain it properly. The math teacher I had when I went into retrial just said, that that what my teacher for german, history and politics said about me would be so absulutely true...
He said I'd be a minimalist.
I see it more like, that my interests (too many) are "weighted", and my harddisk space and RAM restricted. 