Does SY Invisilights Iray use ghost lights?
DeeKay
Posts: 36
in The Commons
Will SY Invisilights Iray work in the latest version of Daz studio beta?
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Do Iray ghost lights not work anymore in the latest beta?
No they don´t. And accouring to Nvidia, it´s not a bug. It´s a feature.
Sounds like a good reason to keep my installation of the 4.15 release version.
Ghost lights utilized unintended behaviour of Iray, that behaviour could in itself be called a bug, which Nvidia "fixed" in later revisions.
Not a feature, it is a fix for the bug that made 'ghost lights' possible.
I know it wasn´t intended. But if the guys at Nvidia would have done some research, they would know that this bug has become the solution for lighting indoor scenes for the majority of iray users. Don´t get me wrong. I´m not blaming them for fixing things. But they could have integrated an option to use it the old fashioned way at least.
Sickleyield said that the lights were developed in 4.16, and use the fix that enables ghost lights to work in that version. She didn't know if they worked in versions earlier than 4.16.
Thank you for the link. I bought Iray Ghost Light Kit 3 which does not work in Daz studio 4.16 beta. Perhaps I should not be using the latest beta with SY's and KA's ghost light products.
definitely hang onto your copy of studio 4.15 if you like being able to work with ghost lights. and save a backup of the DIM install package, too...
j
Better place a backup copy somewhere else too, remember... When they will release DS 5, they will still keep the last version of DS 4 available for those that had it, but it will be the last released version and include whatever improvements they have come up until that point.
Or hang onto the release version of 4.16. It was in the beta that the change was made. With the release version they went back to the 4.15 Iray engine but kept the rest of the updates. So the most up to date version in which ghost lights work in is 4.16 release version.
This would eventually make all my KindredArts lighting products useless. I use them a lot.
Hi, yes, Invisilights do work in 4.16 using the new fix.
How easy is it to convert existing ghostlights over into invisilights? Will there be a script for it?
When you say 4.16 do you mean the release version or the beta? My understanding is that KA style ghost lights also work in 4.16, it is only the beta in which they are broken.
The released version of DS (4.16.0.x) does not have broken Ghost Lights and it doesn't have the corresponding DS partial fix.
Broken Ghost Lights first showed up in Iray 2021.0.0 beta, build 344800.351, which I think was incorporated into Daz Studio 4.15.1.91.
The main Ghost Light partial workaround (related to the presence of a DzBoolProperty named "Iray Visible to Primary Rays") was released in Daz Studio 4.16.1.6.
SY Invisilights work using the fix in Daz Studio 4.16.1.6 (which was and still is in beta).
I guess I'm mainly bracketting for when a version of Daz comes out that includes the updated iray changes that break the older ghostlights: WIll I still be able to use my previous-saved scenes that have ghostlights, after running a hypothetical-to-arrive-in-this-future script over them to fix them? Or are the Daz devs working on imbedding a fix into Daz itself that bypasses nvidia's ghostlight-breaking "fix"?
As near as I can tell from their remarks in other threads, Daz is not creating any such script. The one used to fix individual objects is more of an artist/creator tool, it won't fix anything automatically. We run it and then we set up settings and a new property and then we save the whole object.
Your Ghost Light scenes will still load, but the lights not work after the update. I suspect KindredArts will be creating updates, because I know him and he's super thorough about his products, but you might still need to reload a ghost light into the scene after that for it to be functional. I can't say that for sure because that's his product, not mine.
Hope Kindred Arts does somehow manage to update them, because those kits are excellent.
Okay, here's another question. Is it normal for a room scene with just an Orblight in it (and with two other, barely-even-visible light sources) to take well over two hours to render? I just cancelled out of a render that had reached 2 hours and 14 minutes, and still showed 0% convergeance, at 1800x1200, on a 1060 card. I was fully expecting a 15 or 20 minute render, and as far as I know there's nothing in the scene that should be causing this gigantic a render time. Barely any dark places (it's mostly 4 bright-colored walls, and some bedroom furniture) and about the only thing transparent in the scene is a small puddle on the floor.
It's impossible to answer this without knowing every particular of the scene, but the first thing I would ask is, is it a fully enclosed room? Iray takes a lot longer in a totally enclosed space. I leave the wall behind the camera off as often as possible and darken the HDRI to prevent flooding a dark scene with light.
This is a totally enclosed room, yes. I can't hide walls because I have 10 different camera angles set up, pointing all different directions, including at least one gazing up at the ceiling. I'm specifically using the Child's Play bedroom. Most everything in the scene is well lit (I placed the orblight up at the light fixture in the ceiling), and I'm seeing a bit of shadow under the bed, and some dark under one of the chest of drawers (and I totally hid the other chest of drawers because one of the cameras had to be placed right where it was), and I have placed a small puddle on the floor... but everything else I can see in the room is well lit.
I have never had something like this still be at 0% convergance at 2 hours before. 0o
Have you checked that your GPU is being utilised? Maybe the scene's too big for it and it's CPU rendering. I check by putting my hand on the GPU (side of the case is open) and can easily tell by how hot it is or isn't.
Hmmmm.... the scene is literally two tots in a room, and a couple of basic, extra toys, and one or two other things. I doubt its exceeding 6gigs of vram. 0o Heck, its probably not even close to 6gigs of vram.
Anyway, as for totally enclosed rooms... I've done scads of scenes that had no openings to the outside world. Some of them might have rendered slow.... but this is waiting-for-paint-to-peel level of slow.
So, let me explain this through a metaphor:
If you have a simple backdrop, an HDRI, and maybe a point light, imagine all the light bouncing around like ping pong balls.... this is the simplest setup since the balls just bounce off your figure and the backdrop and then out of the scene where they don't matter any more. This is computationally simple.
If you have a closed box, things get more complicated: the balls bounce off the figure, bounce off the backdrop, bounce off the walls, ceilings, and floors and keep bouncing for a while since there is nowhere for the balls to leave the scene.
Finally, there is your situation, the enclosed room, the bouncing balls and the Invisilights which, instead of shooting a few balls at a time, shoots tens of thousands of balls in a lot of directions. The calculations become astronomical. Very long render times! What can you do? If you can, hide whatever wall that is behind the camera (a iray section plane is your friend). Avoid diffuse light like emmisive surfaces (Invisilights, for example) in a totally enclosed environment and rely on point lights. Understand that the goalis to reduce the number of times that light bounces or balls bounces.
Does setting Max Path Length to 7 or 8 improve your render time?
Well, the render got to 99% convergance at 2:20:00-something, with barely any descernable grain, so I'm not twiddling with the settings anymore. Didn't touch the Max Path stuff, though. It's possible something in DS was not letting go of gpu memory earlier or something.