Workstation Looking to buy any help
Rowanessque
Posts: 135
Hello I was reading this https://www.cgdirector.com/best-computer-3d-modeling-rendering/ discusses Workstations. I don't really want a gaming computer, and I don't mind a refurbished workstation I have seen one here but https://www.bargainhardware.co.uk/lenovo-thinkstation-p510-v3-v4-twr-configure-to-order but I am in a real dilemma because I don't know what core, what memory, what anything, a complete novice. Can someone help me to find the right advice for what I want and need. So my computer needs to be up for Daz Studio, Cararra, Bryce, Second Life, {why Second Life I love designing things and they can come to life} thirdly it needs to be able to support my passion for photography and design needs. I am not professional, just a complete novice in all this. I can dabble, I know a few things about shaders and things, and the big guns iray and octane. As for computer jargon and cores cuda, all that I am lost at sea and if I am in the wrong place I apologise please move this to where it should be and if its been answered then please point me to that thread and then you can lock this thanks. I know people have helped me in the past and I am grateful to them but workstations are a mystery to me. Other people might benefit from this too.
Andrea
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...the Lenovo is old hardware and likely will not be compatible with Windows 11. The fact it still has a Pascal series Quadro means that part of that 24 GB VRAM will be used for the RTX boost. I have a 12 GB Maxwell Titan X and only and getting about 8 GB of useable VRAM when rendering with the latest version of Iray. This began with 4,.12 which is has the first version of Iray optimised for RT cores.So you defintely want an RTX capable card to get full use of VRAM for rendering, and I wouldn't go with less than 12 GB.of VRAM particularly if you envision creating larger scenes with militple characters and assets.
If you are looking at this being a purely Daz/render machine, a 12 GB 3060 or 16 GB A4000 would be the most economical way to go to get a decent amount of VRAM and price. I'd also go with 64 GB of memory. If you are looking at a 3090 or A5000, then I'd go to 128 GB of system memory
For the CPU that is somewhat a personal choice. I stayed with Intel as all the boards for the Ryzen 5900 series had warnings about requiring BIOS updates. For drives I went with a 500 GB M.2, SSD (for the boot/programme drive), a 2 TB SATA III SSD (for the Daz Content Library), a 2 TB HDD for storage (finished renders tests etc), and a 4 TB HDD backup.(the latter as I have two systems).
RTX 3060 SC: https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-rtx-3060.c3682
RTX A4000: https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/rtx-a4000.c3756
RTX 3090: https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-rtx-3090.c3622
RTX A5000: https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/rtx-a5000.c3748
There is a lot of give-and-take. I think you have to start by deciding how much you want to spend, and then decide on the best configuration within that budget. The only thing you should be convinced of at this point is that the GPU in your system will certainly be the single most expensive component, by far.
Redacted
That article, with it's emphasis on CPU rendering, is a bit misleading.
A good Iray machine would be a "gaming machine" with added memory.
The GPU should have 'RTX' in the name. If you have the choice go for a GPU with more memory instead of faster speed.
An 8-core Ryzen will outperform those Xeons and easily cope with any design program that needs CPU power.
Once you spec. up a workstation quote, the cost is not that far from an 'off the shelf' system from Scan or PC Specialist.
I think this is the best answer that you could give anyone looking for machine for DAZ. Memory is for sure needed and DAZ will use it.
I think this is the best answer that you could give anyone looking for machine for DAZ. Memory is for sure needed and DAZ will use it.
...one good site for checking parts and compatibility is PC Partpicker. If something required extra attention or incompatible it will flag that component with a message.
https://pcpartpicker.com/
I would stay away form factory rebuilds and go with a custom build house A little more expensive but you have a more control of what goes in the box. Many sites have "configurators" so you can play around with setting up sample builds and see the price. I would particularly stay avoid Dell and HP as they sometimes do things like solder memory in and use their own proprietary branded components which can affect the ability to upgrade or expand your system later.
If you're looking at a 12 - 16 GB GPU, you will need a minimum of 32 GB of system memory to support the VRAM, preferably 64.as a general rule of thumb is three times the system RAM to support the amount of VRAM. If you are going for a 3070 (8 GB) or standard 3080 (10 GB) then 32 GB will be enough..
Also keep in mind that the OS and system processes as well as any other programmes running (like Photoshop, Gimp, a browser etc) will take up system memory as well. I usually shut everything else down when working and close any Net connections as well as put my AV in sleep mode.
Please do yourself a favour and avoid these Dell or Lenovo "workstations" like the plague. We have had 100+ of these in various flavours in the office and besides usually having plenty of proprietary components and sub-standard parts, they failed with clockwork precision. The only reasons businesses buy them are bulk discounts and warranty. Both things that as a single user buyer of a refurbished system you won't have...
The "Workstation vs. Gaming PC" debate is a sign of times - once upon a time, there was simply no comparison; Today however, a high-end "Gaming PC" will kick the living daylights out of almost any "Workstation" in terms of performance at the same price; What you get from "Workstation" systems is that they use components which are either optimized for a specific task (e.g. QUADRO cards slower than their GeForce counterpart, but offering 2x the amount of VRam) or, more often, enjoy superior support within industrial applications - for example, certain CAD software packages have in-build check to stop them from running on anything that isn't a QUADRO or a Radeon Pro/FirePro. The applications you mention run absolutely fine on high-performance "gaming" cards, so you won't have this issue.
For your needs, a high-spec "Gaming PC" is ideal - and note, you don't have to get one that's lit up like unicorn vomit, if that's what makes you say "I don't want a gaming PC". You'll get more up-to-date parts, upgradeability and better bang-for-the-buck than by going the second hand workstation route. What this PC will be made of depends on your budget, really.
As a rule of thumb, as it's already been said, you'll need to "design" your system around the GPU; For Iray/Daz, VRAM is extremely important - most 3rd generation RTX cards will be OK in terms of performance, but the VRAM is what fells them. To give you an example, I have an RTX 3090 on the desktop and a laptop with a mobile RTX 3070...the former of course performs better, but the plucky little mobile 3070 isn't a million miles behind...until you add more than 2 characters in a scene, at which point the 8GB of VRAM aren't enough anymore and renders crash back to CPU-only, unless I make heavy use of a "scene optimizer" tool. In terms of performance with Iray, there's a gulf between 20-series and 30-series RTX cards. My old RXT 2070 Super was markedly slower than even the mobile 3070 on my laptop which, in terms of raw power, is probably closer to a desktop 3060 or even a 3050 than a full-fat 3070.
To make a long story short:
GPU
- Go for as much VRAM as you can, even at the cost of sacrificing a bit of performance (e.g. taking 12 GB RTX 3060 over a 8GB RTX 3070).
- Some recent Quadro-level cards, like the A4000 with 16GB, might be a good idea - they're only slightly slower than a RTX 3070, have 16GB of VRAM and cryptominers don't want them, so they don't command huge markups over the MSRP.
- It will be by FAR the most expensive part of your PC.
CPU
- Anything latest gen and 8-core or more will be definitely capable to manage the mentioned workload (AMD Ryzen 7 5xxx, Intel i7 12th gen)
- If you're buying now, I'd suggest going for an Intel 12th gen CPU for the sole reason that AMD is going to renew its whole platform at some point after July (But if you're looking to buy later this year, it's worth checking what AMD will come up with)
RAM
- This is possibly the easiest recommendation: as much and as fast of a type as your budget can afford :D
STORAGE
- Speed of storage makes the MOST difference in terms of performance outside of pure rendering tasks
- Ideally, you'd want a reasonably sized NVMe SSD for your OS and basic programs dirve (e.g. 500GB) and again ideally, a bigger (1/2TB) NVMe SSD for your DAZ stuff.
- Alternatively, a SATA III SSD is a viable option for DAZ libraries etc. - it won't perform as well as an nVME, but there won't be too much of a noticeable difference from a user's perspective
BUYING/BUILDING
Building a system, especially if you're not adding accessories like water coolers, RGB lights and external controllers, isn't really that complex a task - you can find plenty of guides on Youtube (look up LinusTechTips or Jayz2Cents for example, but there are many more).
The issue right now however is the state of the market and sourcing certain components, especially GPUs (if you go the GeForce RTX way, the Quadro-level cards are easier to find); For this reason, checking some "spec-builders" like the NZXT BLD, OriginPc, iBuyPower etc. could be a good idea. Depending on where you're located in the wolrd, there might also be more local retailers - in the USA you could get a PC built-to-spec from Microcenter, in UK there's Scan.co.uk and Overclockers.co.uk and many others across all other countries. I'd recommend a bit of research based on where you are.
In conclusion, I hope this could be useful and not just adding to the confusion :)
...excellent summation. Yeah I come from the days when gaming systems were not as well designed as they are today and the prebuilt ones often came in hideous cases that screamed "gamer!" and looked like they'd' transform into a killer robot when your back was turned:
Most other off the shelf prebuids at the time were pretty anaemic for this type of work. Back then it was also less costly to build your own if you had the knowledge and skill (I took about a year of my spare time studying how to configure and build computers as I was terribly disappointed by commercial offerings and most custom houses then were focused on more professional rigs and thus were costly).
The one issue with an off the shelf gaming rig is usually memory. Most only offer 16 GB which is sufficient for gaming purposes but not to support a high VRAM GPU for rendering. Again three times the cards VRAM in system memory is optimal and 4 times should have you covered for even the most complex and texture heavy scenes.
For the GPU it used to be 6 GB was the cut-off, but I agree, today 8 GB seems to be the minimal you need for a couple G8 characters and assorted props/sets. .
Like h3llr4iser and myself mentioned, there are shops that will let you configure a system that they will build and test (the latter rather important) before shipping. Today the cost difference between home building and these shops have come more in like with each other. Another nice feature of custom builds, they aren't loaded with a bunch of "crapware" and software demos like off the shelf ones are.
As to the CPU for Intel I would go with a Generation 10 as the generation 12 have a second small set of "energy saving" cores (I believe 4) that may affect performance as some programmes and processes (like say if rendering dumps to the CPU) will end up being assigned to those cores which would cause performance to slow to a crawl.. As to AMD the suggested Ryzen 7 5xxx series on up would be fine however be aware you may need to update the MB's BIOS as well as also get an adapter kit for whatever cooling solution you use.
For memory I'd stick with DDR4 unless you have the funds, as DDR5 is about twice the cost.
Thank you very much forall your help, I have alot to digest I will read through your advice, thank you xxx Andrea I will come back with an answer soon xx