Please can we have an Iray section?
John Sims
Posts: 360
Iray is a spectacularly powerful tool and equally spectacularly complex.
Many aspects of information, hints, tip and how to's have been discussed and often buried in the "Show us your iray renders thread".
I regret that I don't have time to read every post and many of these gifts of knowledge will become buried in the close approaching 200 posts of "Show us ..."
An Iray section would alow more succinct threads and access to information without bogging down "Commons".
I appreciate I can search for iray but, such is the enthusiasm for the subject many gems of information are becoming buried in discussions expanding from the original thread.
Just my thoughts...
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I'll add my vote to that. It is also fairly unique in its settings that I think a dedicated folder would benefit us well.
Latest News has its own folder and that's never even been used in the last almost three years. I wish DAZ would post official things there instead of dumping them into Commons and making us dig through newbie posts and ongoing render threads. Sometimes the older official threads are useful, after they lose their "stick" and they very quickly get buried.
...Having had my own forum for a while, it should be very easy to add, too. :)
I'm with you, John. All the stuff on Iray is now splattered over so many threads that finding information on a specific issue has become a classic exercise in "I can't find the wood for the trees"!
Another thing that would be useful would be a low jargon, primer book on Iray, highlighting the differences between it and 3Delight.
Cheers,
Alex.
Hi John,
I would also like to add my support for the request of a separate Iray Section. The forums already have a software section where DAZ Studio, Carrara, Bryce, Hexagon, and Poser Discussion reside, so it would be nice to see an Iray Discussion section too.
Iray within Daz Studio appears to have gained popular support, especially when you see the number of articles being submitted, renders being uploaded, and the views and replies the related threads are getting. The problem is that there are Iray related threads now spread within 'The Commons' and 'Daz Studio Discussion' sections, and it would be nice if these were now all collated together in one place.
So please DAZ can we have an Iray Section, for easier reference for all this valuable information that's being contributed.
Thank you. :-)
As Iray is part of Daz Studio beta it seem s logical to talk about it in the DS forum. It isn't a different program, merely a new tool been added to an existing one.
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/54058/
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/53671/
While I do agree with what chohole just said, I think that it stands to be such a significant development (its actually pushing me to finally get a more powerful computer) that it might actually make sense to add a new section just for iRay...
Just putting the iRay posts in the DS Forum, kinda belittles this significant addition to DAZ's arsenal... Not having a separate section will cause people to have to track down iRay info and threads as well as have threads being made in places where others "think" may make sense...
Imagine from a newbie's perspective... He or She thinks "Hey, what's this iRay thing?" Or "Whats so special about iRay?" And they look at the forums and see a whole section where they can find information readily and easily ask questions being assured that's the right place.
It would help to showcase this feature's significance.
Not only is that slightly more efficient, it's up to 34.016% more practical.
I think it would be a good idea... As well as a helpful idea.
My two cents worth - rather than a separate section that very few would use, how about an index thread that points to posts of interest in using Iray? I'd set one up myself, but my normal access is dial-up >:( and it takes me forever to go through a day's new posts.
Put the thread in Nuts and Bolts, as it would be pretty much a series of links to assorted how-tos and definitions and it might not need to be a sticky.
Let's see...how about an OpenGL section?
3Delight?
Luxrender (it will catch all the Luxus and Reality thread)?
Octane?
Hey, while we're at it, why not one for Cycles?
I like the index, it works well in the Freebie section and makes it easy to find more specific info.
Seperating a fwe things out to their own sections may be good
...I like this idea, Though make it similar to the index thread for "Daz Contests" or "Useful Resources". with links to the main Iray discussion threads (updated). It should be a Sticky in the Commons (so it doesn't become buried) as that is where most people first head to in the Forums.
Except that 3Delight is simple and Luxrender and Octane are both 3rd party commercial add ons not resident in DAZ.
The trouble with an Index is it relies on someone updating it. A separate area is self perpetuating and doesn't need managing to such a degree.
I can appreciate that there may be a reluctance to divulge the secrets of Iray shaders as various DAZ partners are probably already beavering away to produce shader packs to sell, and commercially it would be better to make such shaders available than expose the recipes behind them.
Agreed. I was actually writing a post suggesting a combined Unbiased Rendering section, but you make a valid point about the add-ons for external products, even though they (or parts of them) are currently sold here.
(Afterthought...perhaps "Iray and Unbiased Rendering" would keep the proprietary preference without being all-exclusive of Lux & Octane.)
I love that some folks have lots of time to do indexes, but things change, people get busy or bored...and they may not think every related post is interesting enough to make their list, but sometimes little questions turn into brilliant discussions...if people know where to find them. An Iray Section would always be there and make it easy to find info.
As far as 3DL and OGL...everyone uses those. Perhaps there are (I expect literally) one or two new-but-advanced users who knew they didn't like 3DL rendering from the start and jumped immediately into Lux or Octane, having previous experience in Max or Maya, but every other person who has rendered a scene in Studio has at least tried 3DL. That doesn't need to be separated. An OGL section is further silly, being the basic core of the interface. I'd no sooner suggest a dedicated section for the File menu.
Never heard of Cycles. It is exciting or was that pure sarcasm? (Could have been partial; I try not to assume.)
Yes, Iray is a part of Studio. It's a big exciting part that changes the potential of this program in big ways. That's why I voted for it in the CG awards. (Software update or innovation; don't remember which I picked.) I don't see how giving it its own corner of the room is such a terrible thing, especially when DAZ has an "official" folder that is not even being used. Tidy the forum up a bit, organize...a place for everything and everything in its place, you know. All discussions are not general discussions...
Nestle it in Software, between Studio & Carrara. It'll be warm and cozy.
I'd also like to see a separate Iray forum,I haven't used it much but when I finally get around to seeing whats what it looks like it'll be a mission finding the info,the render threads can still be in the commons but general info and tips could be better accessed in a new section
Personally, I don't think it is needed. If "Commons" is too busy then put the threads discussing Iray into "DAZ Studio" sub forum and the render thread into the art sub forum where they belong IMHO. As for "Except that 3Delight is simple" that was written before ... not really. Many do not understand 3Delight and to utilize it correctly is quite difficult. For some Iray is actually easier from the get-a-go than 3Delight.
I think Iray just gets hyped at the moment because it is new and due to that you have more threads now than you would have in the long run.
...as to 3DL being "easy", there are threads dealing with the it's technical aspects, particularly one for lighting and shaders, that I had to drop off my subscription list as it was going way over my head when scripted rendering and RSL entered the conversation. Granted, I saw some pretty amazing work but the mechanics of achieving that level left me scratching my head. For myself I find Iray to actually be more intuitive, as I can get excellent results without having to dive into scripting or coding to achieve them.
As to a separate Iray/Unbiased Rendering forum, Reality has it's own over on RDNA which is split into Poser and Daz subforums. Rendo also has a forum for Poser Python Scripting separate from the main Poser one. So, based on that, I wouldn't see it out of place to have one for Iray here under the General Forums heading
This may well be the case for vendors but users need more information also so they can adapt shaders to suit their needs.
If nothing else there is a serious need for a thread to share networks and recipes for Iray similar to the thread Yacomo started for Shader Mixer initially. Through people sharing there were many things that were eventually created as products for DS.
I was thinking of starting a thread just to share what I'm doing basic though it is...it would be useful for people to be able to do simple things with shaders for Iray.
I would highly recommend for those interested to start with importing the shaders into Shader Mixer and seeing how they link bricks together.
I honestly don't understand the resistance to an Iray specific forum. There are many users (myself included) that are in need of information on Iray, not just what the settings are but how to use them effectively, and it is a royal pain to try sifting through 100 page long threads to weed out small nuggets of information that might be useful.
There are many areas of the forums that have fallen into disuse, why NOT convert one them into an Iray forum?
Whilst a dedicated iRay forum seems to make sense right now whilst it is new and everyone is talking about it, will that still be the case 3/6 months down the road? If you look at the number of posts, commons has 10 times more than any other thread, and many people only look at that thread. Imagine having an urgent iRay question 6 months from now, will people post it in the iRay thread, worrying that many forum readers will never see it, or post it in commons in the hope of a fast answer?
Possibly in the Commons - but the mods can always move it, at the moment they go into each thread that has an Iray question and direct the OP to the Iray threads; would be much simpler, I would have thought, if there was a dedicated Iray section. Then really relevant and useful threads and tips etc could be stickied.
I completely agree here. I've tried reading some of the threads looking for information and I am sorry, after about 25 pages of not finding what I am after, I give up. Then I end up posting my own thread. And more often than not someone trying to be "helpful" comes along and tells me "oh that was covered here," and links back to the 90 page thread I *already* got frustrating searching through.
The information needs to be available in an organized way. Digging through 80 pages of stuff to find the right setting to use for an emitter light is not efficient and wastes my time.
I completely agree here. I've tried reading some of the threads looking for information and I am sorry, after about 25 pages of not finding what I am after, I give up. Then I end up posting my own thread. And more often than not someone trying to be "helpful" comes along and tells me "oh that was covered here," and links back to the 90 page thread I *already* got frustrating searching through.
The information needs to be available in an organized way. Digging through 80 pages of stuff to find the right setting to use for an emitter light is not efficient and wastes my time.
Whilst I 100% agree with your points, the main issue is the size of the 100 odd page threads, and the multiple subjects and issues dealt with by that thread. Having a separate forum will not help here.
Welllll.... the problem is primarily caused by question-askers being encouraged to go onto the old mega-threads to ask their questions rather than posting a new subject with a specific question. And although, you're right, having a new forum would not directly affect that issue, if we had a forum dedicated to Iray, I suspect people's trigger finger for saying "go post to the older thread" would not be *quite* so itchy. It's much more likely to happen in a generic DAZ3D or Commons section because people (understandably) want to keep the "Help! Iray question!" threads from proliferating like rabbit babies. There would be no need to prevent Iray questions from clogging up an Iray forum.
In other words, my view here is that the problem begins with the fact that there isn't a special Iray forum, and that consequently people ask Iray questions in the Newbie, Commons, *and* DAZ3D areas. People who read all those areas get annoyed at seeing the same questions asked over and over again (by people who may not have thought to look in the other areas before posting) and direct newbs to the existing mega-threads to try and keep the situation from becoming insane, and the mega-threads become even more bloated and useless as a result.
If there was just an Iray section, there'd be no need to curtail the Iray questions. AND the people seeking answers would know to go THERE and not Commons, DAZ, etc.
...barring a dedicated Iray forum, I think Iray technical discussions could be moved to the Nuts & Bolts forum which is pretty much where they belong. Render showcases could be in the Art Studio forum which is kind of what it was created for.
The correct place for Iray threads would be DAZ Studio Discussion, since it is a DS feature.
I agree with Richard on this and perhaps some specific threads for specific purposes. For example one for creating or adapting shaders and one for rendering.
Not everyone will delve deeply into the inner workings especially once there are more presets for material and lights.
The problem is that Daz doesn't document worth spit.
I've shrugged and made my peace, but that's the underlying issue.
Very true and it's very frustrating when threads that were useful are no longer available like the global illumination one for Shader Mixer. It's gone with the loss of the archives along with lots of useful info.
Perhaps a sticky at the top of the DAZ Studio forum with a list of how-to's and tutorials. Super-technical discussions are fine for those who want to delve deep but, personally, I would be happy with help for those who want to grasp the basics: how it works, how to lights a scene, how to make sure you don't need to go on holiday while you wait for a render to finish, etc.
The main issue with IRay for me is the fact that I am limited to CPU mode and most of the discussions here seem to involve people with high-spec rigs to play with. I know someone will say that a 4GB card can be had for $100 but I don't have a PC tower with easy access slots. I have an iMac which is not upgradeable. Others have laptops and are in a similar position. So, in short, I want to know how to get the best from IRay in CPU mode.
I don't yet know if there are tutorials, let alone know where to find them. So I have basically ignored IRay after flirting with it after the upgrade. I found it was as slow as Luxrender (which I am used to) but not as versatile - there are adjustments you can make in Luxrender while it is rendering and it also runs independently so work can continue on the next scene in DAZ Studio while Luxrender goes about its task.
We've got a thread where we've gathered threads that have become noteworthy and will add more as significant ones pop up.
But that is mainly links to other threads and the OP pointed out that not everyone wants to read 200 entries in any thread just to - perhaps - stumble across some nuggets. That list suggests that tutorials are few and far between. I mean, is a single video enough for such an important upgrade/shift in rendering capabilities?
an iray sub- forum would be useful if just to keep most the iray related threads off the DAZ studio discussion main page.