3Delight Laboratory Thread: tips, questions, experiments

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  • Mustakettu85Mustakettu85 Posts: 2,933

    Oh yeah, that one. I remember it now, thanks for the link! Still it's better to wait for OSLtracer to leave the "pre-release" stage. Some of that math might get implemented in-core, y'know. It would make sense.

    Fireflies aren't really "noise" like generic Monte Carlo noise, they're worse. They're like outbursts of energy - roughly speaking, created when only one pixel "sees" the whole energy of a light source. A neural network like those guys built sounds like a great potential solution (AI does great things these days - I heard the Watson program is a capable diagnostician), but until it's available for everyone, avoiding them is best.

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited April 2016

    Well, I've been playing around with Kettu's shaders...to go along with the hair cap.

    Custom morph, Aibell skin, Kettu's hair cap/standard LAMH shader on the hair, OmUber on the shirt, Kettu's shaders on everything else.

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  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001

    I've always thought it would be interesting to have 3DL lights that you could set the color temperature on...

    I found this

    http://www.tannerhelland.com/4435/convert-temperature-rgb-algorithm-code/#comment-24753

    It looks like it could be used to set the color of the light. 

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,245

    ...what about rendering without UE2 or any Uber lights?  Just how good of a scene can one get?

    I tend to avoid UE and and the UALs due to the extreme render times as well as high system temperatures involved.

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,045

    My go-to for (most) realistic 3DL scenes is AoA distant (or spot), AoA ambient, and a UE Bounce light.

     

  • Mustakettu85Mustakettu85 Posts: 2,933
    mjc1016 said:

    I've always thought it would be interesting to have 3DL lights that you could set the color temperature on...

    I found this

    http://www.tannerhelland.com/4435/convert-temperature-rgb-algorithm-code/#comment-24753

    It looks like it could be used to set the color of the light. 

     

    Looks interesting, but I'd wait for further development of the OSLtracer. You probably remember that OSL lends itself well to working with real-world units, so maybe the devs are going to add it down the line. And even if they leave it up to the user, it's still easier in OSL I think.

    That's a superb render =) I like your morph better than the original.

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
     

    Looks interesting, but I'd wait for further development of the OSLtracer. You probably remember that OSL lends itself well to working with real-world units, so maybe the devs are going to add it down the line. And even if they leave it up to the user, it's still easier in OSL I think.

    That's a superb render =) I like your morph better than the original.

    Yeah...and even the math would be a bit easier to implement in OSL, if it isn't included.

    There's even a chance that OSL lights could use luminous flux instead of intensity....and maybe even IES profiles.

  • Mustakettu85Mustakettu85 Posts: 2,933

    And congratulations to Wowie on the release of the Lumina material library! It's an awesome set, very much recommended to everyone who wants to get the max out of the Omnifreaker line of shaders. Reliable, well-researched and fast to render, especially if you read the manual and follow the suggestions.

    http://www.daz3d.com/lumina-materials-library

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited April 2016

    Something that has always driven me batty...the fact that the standard way of making a shadow catcher in Studio pretty much requries a 'real' light.  Certain lights, like envrionment lights won't 'trigger' it. 

    I found this...

    https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://oso.tea-nifty.com/blog/2012/05/daz-studio-ao-v.html&sandbox=1

    It's been around for a while, but it still works in 4.8 (and I'm guessing 4.9).

     

    Without

    With

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  • wowiewowie Posts: 2,029
    kyoto kid said:

    ...what about rendering without UE2 or any Uber lights?  Just how good of a scene can one get?

    I tend to avoid UE and and the UALs due to the extreme render times as well as high system temperatures involved.

    You can use the point cloud based occlusion light, via the scripted renderer option. It's less accurate than UE but aren't prone to noise. You will still need to manually override occlusion shading rates on the shader though, particularly for surfaces with lots of opacity maps.

     

    And congratulations to Wowie on the release of the Lumina material library! It's an awesome set, very much recommended to everyone who wants to get the max out of the Omnifreaker line of shaders. Reliable, well-researched and fast to render, especially if you read the manual and follow the suggestions.

    http://www.daz3d.com/lumina-materials-library

    Thanks. If anyone have questions about them, feel free to ask.

  • wowiewowie Posts: 2,029
    edited April 2016
    mjc1016 said:

    Something that has always driven me batty...the fact that the standard way of making a shadow catcher in Studio pretty much requries a 'real' light.  Certain lights, like envrionment lights won't 'trigger' it. 

    I found this...

    https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://oso.tea-nifty.com/blog/2012/05/daz-studio-ao-v.html&sandbox=1

    It's been around for a while, but it still works in 4.8 (and I'm guessing 4.9).

    Pretty neat. Oh yes, still on the same site:

    https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://oso.tea-nifty.com/blog/2013/09/daz-studio-b529.html&usg=ALkJrhjbCbSz8xnGFHgkqGQckRPJDsLOdA

    A spherical camera. Quite useful if you want to make a HDRI/environment map of your scene.

    Post edited by wowie on
  • LinwellyLinwelly Posts: 5,981
    wowie said:
    kyoto kid said:

    ...what about rendering without UE2 or any Uber lights?  Just how good of a scene can one get?

    I tend to avoid UE and and the UALs due to the extreme render times as well as high system temperatures involved.

    You can use the point cloud based occlusion light, via the scripted renderer option. It's less accurate than UE but aren't prone to noise. You will still need to manually override occlusion shading rates on the shader though, particularly for surfaces with lots of opacity maps.

     

    And congratulations to Wowie on the release of the Lumina material library! It's an awesome set, very much recommended to everyone who wants to get the max out of the Omnifreaker line of shaders. Reliable, well-researched and fast to render, especially if you read the manual and follow the suggestions.

    http://www.daz3d.com/lumina-materials-library

    Thanks. If anyone have questions about them, feel free to ask.

    I have been waiting for that, and it went strait to my ... wishlist (I'm broke and need the US2 as well). It looks very well made and I look forward to using it.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,245
    wowie said:
    kyoto kid said:

    ...what about rendering without UE2 or any Uber lights?  Just how good of a scene can one get?

    I tend to avoid UE and and the UALs due to the extreme render times as well as high system temperatures involved.

    You can use the point cloud based occlusion light, via the scripted renderer option. It's less accurate than UE but aren't prone to noise. You will still need to manually override occlusion shading rates on the shader though, particularly for surfaces with lots of opacity maps.

    ...not up on scripted rendering as I'm not up on scripting and know nothing about RSL or the shader mixer.

    Iray has become just as complex if not more so, particularly when it comes to skin and hair. I found myself spending more and more time "tweaking" surfaces and lighting rather than actually producing works.

    I felt I was on the right track with AoA's Advanced Lights, Atmospheric Cameras, and SSS Shaders until the 4.7 update broke surface flagging when using said shaders.  To my knowledge, this still has not been fixed.

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,045

    I'm still having fun with AoA lights and so on, but I'm annoyed that that functionality is still unavailable.

     

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    kyoto kid said:
    wowie said:
    kyoto kid said:

    ...what about rendering without UE2 or any Uber lights?  Just how good of a scene can one get?

    I tend to avoid UE and and the UALs due to the extreme render times as well as high system temperatures involved.

    You can use the point cloud based occlusion light, via the scripted renderer option. It's less accurate than UE but aren't prone to noise. You will still need to manually override occlusion shading rates on the shader though, particularly for surfaces with lots of opacity maps.

    ...not up on scripted rendering as I'm not up on scripting and know nothing about RSL or the shader mixer.

    There is no need to be 'up on scripting' or know anything about RSL to use the scripted render.   The scripts are written...you just select them and then render.  They will run instead of the 'default' render script.

    The point-cloud one is one of the ones included with Studio and will perform a two pass render...once to generate the point-cloud and the second to do the 'final' render.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,245

    I'm still having fun with AoA lights and so on, but I'm annoyed that that functionality is still unavailable.

     

    ...in the 3DL version of the girls at the bus stop scene, it would have helped with making the skin textures look more accurate. With just the distant and ambient lights, they are too dark and the softer SSS effect is pretty much lost. Increasing the intensity the ambient light would over-illuminate the entire scene.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,245
    mjc1016 said:
    kyoto kid said:
    wowie said:
    kyoto kid said:

    ...what about rendering without UE2 or any Uber lights?  Just how good of a scene can one get?

    I tend to avoid UE and and the UALs due to the extreme render times as well as high system temperatures involved.

    You can use the point cloud based occlusion light, via the scripted renderer option. It's less accurate than UE but aren't prone to noise. You will still need to manually override occlusion shading rates on the shader though, particularly for surfaces with lots of opacity maps.

    ...not up on scripted rendering as I'm not up on scripting and know nothing about RSL or the shader mixer.

    There is no need to be 'up on scripting' or know anything about RSL to use the scripted render.   The scripts are written...you just select them and then render.  They will run instead of the 'default' render script.

    The point-cloud one is one of the ones included with Studio and will perform a two pass render...once to generate the point-cloud and the second to do the 'final' render.

    ...will the AoA lights and atmospheric cameras work with this?  I thought I read a while back that they didn't.

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001

    Lights should work fine...not sure about the cams.

     

  • wowiewowie Posts: 2,029
    edited April 2016
    kyoto kid said:

    ...not up on scripted rendering as I'm not up on scripting and know nothing about RSL or the shader mixer.

    Pretty simple really.

    The settings have been covered elsewhere i think. Intensity, intensity scale, color, max distance and bias is the same as in many ambient occlusion lights. You generally want cloud shading rate above 4. I believe it is recommended to use clamp and set hitsides to front and back. As for max solid angle, Pixar recommends a value of 0.03 to 0.1.

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  • wowiewowie Posts: 2,029
    edited April 2016

    Spent the last two days learning to groom Garibaldi hair. Not the most sophisticatd looking hair, i know. smiley

    UberSurface2 on everything (including the hair). Lighting is a mix of linear point lights, a distant light and UE2. Still tweaking the hair material settings.

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  • Mustakettu85Mustakettu85 Posts: 2,933
    wowie said:
    kyoto kid said:

    ...not up on scripted rendering as I'm not up on scripting and know nothing about RSL or the shader mixer.

    Pretty simple really.

      The settings have been covered elsewhere i think. Intensity, intensity scale, color, max distance and bias is the same as in many ambient occlusion lights. You generally want cloud shading rate above 4. I believe it is recommended to use clamp and set hitsides to front and back. As for max solid angle, Pixar recommends a value of 0.03 to 0.1.

    I haven't tested this in 4.9, but a few versions back it was also possible to use UE instead of the "Simple Occlusion Light". It should pick up the point cloud automagically, and even use it for IDL if you tell it to. 

    And a neat job on the hair material =) I much prefer Garibaldi over LAMH for actual styling experience, but it's too tricky to use with scripted rendering, so I've basically switched to LAMH. 

  • Mustakettu85Mustakettu85 Posts: 2,933
    wowie said:
    A spherical camera. Quite useful if you want to make a HDRI/environment map of your scene.

    It's also supported natively these days, and you can use the built-in support by exporting to RIB and editing the line that says something like this;

    Projection "perspective"   "fov" [ 30.136978 ] 

    You should kill the "fov" line and change "perspective" to "spherical"... then save and render. 

    Just make sure before exporting that the camera is where you want the "center" to be.

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    wowie said:
    A spherical camera. Quite useful if you want to make a HDRI/environment map of your scene.

    It's also supported natively these days, and you can use the built-in support by exporting to RIB and editing the line that says something like this;

    Projection "perspective"   "fov" [ 30.136978 ] 

    You should kill the "fov" line and change "perspective" to "spherical"... then save and render. 

    Just make sure before exporting that the camera is where you want the "center" to be.

    So, that's what needs to be changed...wasn't quite sure what they were using, but it is 'spherical'.  I went looking for it and couldn't specifically find the term (at least when I was looking...probably in the docs, now...the 3DL team is ALMOST as bad about updating docs as someone else we know....cheeky).  I probably would have gotten an answer if I asked on the forums, but I didn't really NEED to do a render with a spherical cam.

  • wowiewowie Posts: 2,029

    I haven't tested this in 4.9, but a few versions back it was also possible to use UE instead of the "Simple Occlusion Light". It should pick up the point cloud automagically, and even use it for IDL if you tell it to. 

    And a neat job on the hair material =) I much prefer Garibaldi over LAMH for actual styling experience, but it's too tricky to use with scripted rendering, so I've basically switched to LAMH. 

    But how do you save the point cloud date for reuse? I mean, the best advantage of using a point cloud approach is the ability to save it and re use the point cloud for subsequent renders. As far as I can tell, DS just rebuilds it for each render. Unless you're referring to doing a RIB export and passing that to the standalone.

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001

    The way Studio handles the temp files is a mystery to me...there is a chance that even though it generates a new one each time, that it doesn't actually update it.  I'm not sure how the choice is made, but take a look in the temp folder while a render is going on...then rerender and see which files have actually changed.

  • wowiewowie Posts: 2,029
    edited April 2016
    mjc1016 said:

    The way Studio handles the temp files is a mystery to me...there is a chance that even though it generates a new one each time, that it doesn't actually update it.  I'm not sure how the choice is made, but take a look in the temp folder while a render is going on...then rerender and see which files have actually changed.

    Thanks. If I remember correctly, Studio deletes everything once the render is done (or when you exit the application). But I'll check again.

    Oh yeah, here's a tip for those with Garibaldi. Ever feel like the window is too small? Assuming you're on Windows, the windows dimensions can be resized manually via the registry keys.

    [HKEY_CURRENT_USER\SOFTWARE\DAZ\Studio4\WindowGeometries\Garibaldi Editor]

    Just change the width and height to something your liking (but smaller than your current resolution).

    Post edited by wowie on
  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,245
    edited April 2016

    ...really wish I could do batch and background rendering like Poser Pro does.

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • wowiewowie Posts: 2,029
    kyoto kid said:

    ...really wish I could do batch and background rendering like Poser Pro does.

    Batch export to RIB and render in the standalone. The free license now supports up to 8 cores (physical and logical). Unless you have a CPU(s) that has more than 8.

    There's lots of free render managers that can do the heavy lifting in you don't feel like managing those things.

  • Mustakettu85Mustakettu85 Posts: 2,933
    mjc1016 said:

    So, that's what needs to be changed...wasn't quite sure what they were using, but it is 'spherical'.  I went looking for it and couldn't specifically find the term (at least when I was looking...probably in the docs, now...the 3DL team is ALMOST as bad about updating docs as someone else we know....cheeky).  I probably would have gotten an answer if I asked on the forums, but I didn't really NEED to do a render with a spherical cam.

     Nah, not in the docs =) Not sure it even made it to the changelog... most of what I know about 3DL comes from random dev posts on their forums =)

  • Mustakettu85Mustakettu85 Posts: 2,933
    wowie said:

    Thanks. If I remember correctly, Studio deletes everything onced the render is done (or when you exit the application). But I'll check again.

     

    Can't recall what DS does to its "own" point cloud, but my custom point clouds keep sitting in the temp folder forever. It flushes everything but them. 

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