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...thanks. Gave up coding two and a half decades ago
..wow, now that is really good.
So, question, does the aweShader override Iray shaders or do I need to use the Iray => 3DLconversion tool first?
Most likely, a dsDefaultMaterial 3delight to AWE Surface will work best. As noted on the readme, you will have to re-insert specular maps plugged into specular/reflection color to specular/reflection strength before the conversion if you want to retain them.
...I'm just wondering, as most content today has Iray shaders. Also, some content has textures are photo based resoruces (some of Stonemason's buildings in his large urban sets come to mind) and there is no corresponding dsDefault as everything is often the same material zone.
@kyoto kid when I tried to apply the Awe shader for eye lashes to an Iray set of lashes on a G8 figure it didn’t work. As soon as I changed them to the 3delight version that came with the figure then it worked. Up until then I’d made sure I’d picked the RSL offer but I know that isn’t always available with some new figures.
I haven’t tried the Iray to 3elight converter with the Awe Shaders yet. I’m not sure I’d be the best person to test it as you’ll realise if you read my posts in wowies commercial thread
Oh, anywhere convenient in your content library. Maybe in one of Wowie's folders - someplace you will see it and remember to click.
The Iray-to-3Delight script (like Esemwy's) will help if you have opacity maps. In the Iray uber mat, they go in a slot that's named differently ("cutout opacity" I think). Conversion scripts make sure they go in the right place in the 3Delight materials.
aweSurface picks up maps in the "traditionally named" slots, so this is why directly clicking aweSurface onto an Iray mat with opacity maps won't retain those maps. But any "oldschool" DS shader should work, dsDefault, UberSurface1 or 2 - Wowie, I forgot if you checked for pwSurface compatibility? Even if you didn't, I'd say it still uses the same naming conventions, so even pwSurface maps should work as a base.
Or, if you have time, you can just click aweSurface onto your Iray mats and then go through the surfaces inserting opacity maps manually. It's when you could also check if they load as linear ("gamma" 1 in "image editor).
@Mustakettu85 thank you for all this information, I'm learning so much!
In a world where the latest products come with Iray materials, what's the best way to get started testing 3DL--and yet avoid shooting oneself in the foot in a way that makes 3DL seem disappointing?
Here's what I'm thinking:
Does that sound about right?
Documentation is online with links to PDF files. http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/read_me/index/55819/start
There's also the thread in the commercial products forum: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/280441/awe-shading-kit-for-daz-studio-and-3delight-commercial/p1
...sounds like my best option is to get the Iray => 3DL converter then. Looks like the Sickleyeild/Riversoft Art one in the store is sale right now. Will that work as well?
Also, how long ago was that released?
I only have omnifreaker's shader and DAZ default shader to test. As long as they're using the same name and there's a corresponding spot in AWE Surface, it should work.
Sounds about right. I'd like to suggest a third option though - request vendors to provide 3delight materials (which they should have done in the first place).
Better yet, ask them to include presets for AWE Surface. 
Personally, I find DAZ Uber material is unnecessary complex. It actually goes against the idea of simplifying material parameters. That was the big driving idea behind Disney making the Principled Material (which 3delight have implemented in version 13).
I prefer to insert stuff manually, mostly because some of the maps (SSS strength/color maps) are authored for the old SSS implementation. For example, dimming SSS on the thicker part of the body and using white on backscattering parts. You don't need to do this with AWE Surface.
On most surfaces, you only need to handle the diffuse/albedo map (goes into the diffuse color slot), specular (cavity) strength map (this goes into any of the specular/coat strength slot) and bump/displacement map.
If you have a UE/Unity set, metallicity/metalness map goes to the Metalness slot and use the roughness map in the specular/reflection roughness slot for the lobe you're using. By default, this would be the 2nd base lobe.
...I agree, it would be nice if vendors did that (Stonemason does still provide 3DL materials for all his content, the only exception being the Venezia Suite). There have been several threads on this very topic and it appears some vendors don't favour doing so as the extra time and effort is not seen as being worth it for the return on sales. AweSahder might change this but we will see.
For myself I just would like to totally replace the Iray parameter set with the basic 3DL one before proceeding with the aweShader. It would simplify the process to have a "common base" to begin with rather than going slider by slider, converting every single Iray one manually, an enormous task in a very complex scene (it took me two long evenings into the early morning hours just to manually convert Protozoon's Grand Piano to 3DL from Iray and get it to look as good).
Save your money. You don't need any fancy stuff that the commercial SY/RSA one does; just the free one from Esemwy will suffice. The only important point is getting the opacity maps automatically where they belong.
Everything else means clicking on a matching aweSurface preset and adjusting from there.
// I'll risk mod wrath for "non-constructive criticism" and say that way too many artists and vendors have historically provided material settings for whatever engine that make very.little.sense. Even Poser-only materials. So - magic converters won't help much because you may well start with a material that is far from optimal, and then you'll just introduce conversion error. So - only trust your own eye. Never leave a surface untouched. Even if you are applying your own preset from a different situation. //
Everything.
// there are cases where you may not want to, but these are not "beginner material" =))) //
Ummm the render button is still the same, same as the Ctrl+R shortcut. You just switch from "3Delight" to "scripted 3Delight" and work from there.
Ah wait, here's a content library preset for doing just that.
...the main part is manually converting "line by line" has a major impact on the workflow to the possible point of "diminishing returns" particularly in large and very involved scenes like I create.
I really wish Daz3D did not abandon 3DL for Iray as Iray looks to possibly be headings towards a dead end
Why ?
thanks, and I have been on my own for a few aliens in the past (not all, just some), so hopefully it isn't any more painful once I figure out what each part/setting does. B)
Chin on the floor. That looks way better than the infamous Nvidia RTX overly reflective game demo car paint, lol.
Pending confirmation from my bank the transaction went through, I'll be looking at the shader Soon(TM).
''(it took me two long evenings into the early morning hours just to manually convert Protozoon's Grand Piano to 3DL from Iray and get it to look as good)''
You have just demonstrated why vendors aren't doing 3dl shaders for products. I think twice before buying a product these days that has 3dl support as I know that I am paying extra for something I'm not interested in.
I'm ok with trying to adjust settings to get something to look good, Provided I have 'Something' to work with, and the zen desk won't give me the runaround over the stoor listed items in a product. A few times now I've been presented with no 3DL settings at all to work with maps that are inverted color space that is just unusable. I look at the pic, if I have interest I scroll down to see if 3DL is listed, if not I close the tab and move on, I don't even give it a second thought. I've been burnt enough to know that no 3DL listing probably implies the maps are no good for any other render engine, and the zen desk has given me the run around just because 3DL was not listed on the store page even tho 3DL mats were included in a product. It's just not worth the hassle, and confusing why the store lacks 3DL listings for stuff I know has it.
As for working with a product that includes 3DL mats, it's often just a matter of adjusting the color box to work with your lights instead of whatever the promo lights wherein some promos on some products. It's a lot easier than hunting down map files and plugging them into a 3DL shader for something that has no 3DL presets at all.
FYI, that's the first complete pro bundle that I have ordered in a long time, as some stuff in the past was Iray only.
Well, call me pedantic, but I'd say not everything. Just everything that's not emissive.
For emissive surfaces that you don't want to turn into area lights, you can use the AWE Environment sphere shader. Just disable diffuse and enable ambient.
Don't know if many people know this, but you can select multiple surfaces from all objects in the scene by right clicking on a surface of a prop/figure/object and choose 'Select Surfaces with Value'. For example, do this and select all surfaces with the same Metalness value (ie 1 or 100%). This will select all surfaces that meets the criteria in the entire scene. Apply the Base Metal preset to convert them directly so they'll render as metal. Works wonders since you can apply changes to many materials at once by effectively grouping them with a parameter/value (color, strength, roughness, etc).
This probably should be posted in the AWE Surface thread, but since it has been brought up here, I thought this is a better place for it.
I've been thinking about the iray Uber to AWE Surface conversion. One thing I could do to 'ease' the conversion is to add the same fields/dials as Uber. These won't actually feed the shader, but simply placeholders for any value/textures used in Uber so they're still there (in the material) after applying AWE Surface. Afterwards, it's just a matter of creating/running a script that places those input values/textures into their respective AWE Surface equivalents (if there's any). The placeholders will be hidden by default, mostly to avoid confusion. Would this be more convenient for people?
And something the vendor is not interested in, either. Imagine the dedication poured into this work, and the resulting quality.
Sorry I'm not quite getting the point you are trying to make.
You're right, of course :)
And then we should also caution against applying area lights to subdivision surfaces. I just hope no Iray product does that... but who knows...
Also surfaces using the same texture, in one object or over the whole scene. A very useful feature.
And then there are tags - DAZ used tags in their Iray presets, so in some products that reuse those presets, the tags remain and can be useful.
Thanks, everyone. I'll try the suggestions y'all gave me and see what I get!
Possibly. I have noticed that some things like eyelash opacity maps get completely dropped in the Iray to 3DL conversion. It would help, I don't think like most things, it will be a one-click wonder. Also, I know it costs money, SY also has an Iray to 3DL converter, it also has similar difficulties and it is not something that a script can even touch if I understood that chat in another thread. I would happily accept the effort as it will at least get the last used path to where the asset maps are, instead of me needing to hunt them down.
The same point I keep on making whenever people ask for "3Delight support" from vendors who obviously have very little experience working with this renderer. It started back then in the Poser days.
I'm not arguing with you, but rather using your words as a yet another illustration to why wasting energy on this pestering and complaining is not a good idea. You're absolutely right that this "3Delight support" adds to the cost. And the question is, is this increase justified for those who are serious about the quality of their artwork? Can you really use these "afterthought" 3Delight materials for a final render?
Likely not.
And this is what Esemwy's script is for. https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/139326/irayto3delight-conversion-script/p1
Another point, re: 3DL materials... which 3DL?
I mean, it could be Daz Standard, AoA SSS, UberSurface, dz Human skin, ...
And all of those interact differently. I was a big fan of AoA lights, but I hazily recall those lights don't play well with certain surfaces.
Given there's a good chance people are going to be adjusting or tailoring surfaces to their needs... at a certain point it becomes a can of worms, even before you get to the effort and skill necessary to make something look decent in multiple renderers.
This is in addition to things Mustakettu mentioned.
...yes I did.
For myself the lack of 3DL shaders has curbed my purchasing rather significantly.