Iray (Bump & Displacemnt) Help
Viper016
Posts: 158
I am using Iray Uber on a Genesis 1 character, High Resolution, Sub-D 1.0
and no matter what settings I do or how long I wait, the bump and displacement maps don't show up well.
What am I missing bubs
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Are you using Iray shaders and can you show your settings?
(edited, I am guessing you are using the shaders if you're saying you're using Uber, so please show settings and examples of what is happening.)
Iray Uber Base from AoA_SS with ctrl and ignore maps to keep diffuse and etc etc
I want to know if you can get displacement to work at all in Iray like Smay's muscle/veins m4 UV maps
whenever I render I get seams on the 3 separated regions of the figure with ugly rises.
Iray Uber's displacement is at the 1.00 full setting and that is all that shows for that setting.
nothing like AoA_SS's setup as in 3 controls
Disp Strength: 100%
Min: -0.75
Max: 0.75
but AoA_SS and Iray Uber BOTH has ugly seams for disp for me and bump doesn't really show up.
and my full render for bump had alot of iterations for a full hour+
I didn't save the ugly disp renders lol so I have nothing to upload or show for that atm
but I explained it well.
I just need to know if anybody has settings to get disp to look good in Iray
For one, you need to turn the figure's subdivision up to at least 2, better yet 3 to make displacement look good in Iray. It's not like 3Delight in that regard. The setting you're looking for is "Render SubD Level (Minimum)". You could also turn up the "SubDivision Level", but that would just make your display slower and do the same thing for the render.
Also, depending on the figure's displacement map, you might not want to have the minimum value less than zero. If the texture is mostly black, you need to set that value to zero. If it's more gray, then your settings should work better, but I haven't gotten a gray displacement map to look good outside of 3Delight. Mostly black ones tend to work better.
Thanks bub~!
Yeah they are grey based x__x
This is in the Surfaces pane, right? Can you tell me exactly where it should be, because I don't see it.
I was trying displacement the other day and couldn't get it to show up at all. I applied the Iray Uber Base, and the only setting I could find was SubD Displacement Level (right below Min/Max Displacement). I set that to 3, but it did nothing for the render.
TIA
mac
Parameters tab, general->mesh resolution
There are two places to set divisions - the shader, as Mac says, and the parameters, as Fisty says. Iray should use the maximum value from those.
Well, I still have no option in the Shader, and in Parameters, I have Mesh Resolution with only one option - Base. I've tried several objects that use displacement, and Mesh Res only has that one option.
So I still don't know how to get displacement to work.
Am I maybe using the worng shader? It's the one that comes with 4.8 - first one in the folder. I've tried others, but no luck.
mac
Iray Uber Base should give the divisions option. Is the model SubD? If not you won't get the setting in Parameters, but I think yu should still get the material option.
No, the model isn't SubD, and if I convert it, it just rounds off.
Here's a screen of the material after applying Iray Uber Base (ignoring maps). All I have is SubD Displacement Level which does nothing.
The 2nd image shows what it should look like.
mac
In IRAY, I found you just have to keep increasing the minimum and maximum displacement to whatever value you need to, sometimes even 2000 or more.
edited and removed by user
You mentioned subD in the parameters rounding the object off. How low-poly is the mesh? Is, for instance, there only one edge between corners? For that amount of detail, the underlying mesh would have to have the same density as genesis to not look like a garbled mess.
I'd also bump up the displacement min and max to -1 to 1 you can always turn it down.
Well, it's not a low-poly mesh, but of course there's only one edge between corners. In a frame like that, there's no need for extra edges in a straight line. That's just a waste of polys.
I've tried ramping up the displacement values, but it looks awful.
mac
The problem with that is Iray's displacement is vertex based. Its really more designed for displacements baked from multires sculpts. If you look at the frame, for every time the mesh moves up or down as you follow the edge you need a vertex, which means you'd probably need to bump the subD displacement level to something like 100 along the long edges, which really would be ridiculous along the shorter edges.
You may need to cut some more loops around the frame so that there are enough polygons to divide at a reasonable level.
Well, if that's the solution, it's not an option. Why ramp up the poly count for one render engine? It means customers who don't use Iray are penalised with over-polyd models.
I still don't know why I don't have the option in the shader. Nor do I know how anyone gets displacement in Iray with other models. In fact, I've yet to see an Iray render with displacement.
I can see me ignoring Iray altogether for my products.
mac
I dunno, most of the renders I've done have at least some displacement, and it often looks pretty good. But subtle.
I'll whip up an example when my current thing is done.
I understand this gets frustrating and it's easy to go 'nuts to this!', but I think most of us have been at that point and it's worth pushing through to give it an honest try. It took me about 2 weeks to go from 'I don't know if I like this' to 'YAY IRAY'
And I thought about flipping it the bird frequently.
My hair settings are absolutely dependent on the displacement in Iray. It creates 90% of the strandy look here. I'll whip up some comparisons and post them.
and here we are: two (barely baked) renders. The only difference between them is that one is using displacement and one is not. I'll leave it to the viewer to figure out which is which.
FYI its not just Iray that needs to subdivide for displacement Lux needs to as well I'm not sure on octane, but my guess is it does as well. 3delight is more the exception than the rule when it comes to displacement
Actually 3DL DOES need to subdivide....but often, at least in Studio, some of that is already taken care, behind the scenes.
Well, if that's the solution, it's not an option. Why ramp up the poly count for one render engine? It means customers who don't use Iray are penalised with over-polyd models.
I still don't know why I don't have the option in the shader. Nor do I know how anyone gets displacement in Iray with other models. In fact, I've yet to see an Iray render with displacement.
I can see me ignoring Iray altogether for my products.
mac
You did have the option in your screen shot - it appears as soon as the displacement strength is non-zero. But to get fine detail you would need to push it up - if there are no subdivisions along a side of the frame then SubD level 1 will add one at the mid point and each subsequent level will double the number of polygons along the edge - so you are going to need a high settings, which will give a very large number of polygons over the cross section.
Is the setting you're talking about 'SubD Displacement Level'? I thought I was looking for something else.
Someone in this thread said "The setting you’re looking for is “Render SubD Level (Minimum)”. You could also turn up the “SubDivision Level”, but that would just make your display slower and do the same thing for the render"
Anyway, I tried 'SubD Displacement Level' at 6 with -1/+1 displacement, but it looked awful. I also tried 10 and DS stopped responding.
mac
I WILL point out that while displacement can be very useful, I've found it highly prone to problems, at least with Iray in Daz3d.
For one thing, a lot of maps don't mesh well or aren't appropriately balanced, so you can end up with weird stuff. Most of the maps I've played with, the hands and nails end up out of synch and you get weird ugly glitchy stuff.
Again, I suggest, with human figures, avoiding displacement as unnecessary and prone to problems. BUT... the effect can be cool when it comes together.
First example uses some age/wrinkle displacement maps, second relies entirely on bump map.
(If I had time/inclination, I could see if I could layer the displacement maps into the bump maps, but with LIE not working in 4.8 beta, meh)
Is the setting you're talking about 'SubD Displacement Level'? I thought I was looking for something else.
Someone in this thread said "The setting you’re looking for is “Render SubD Level (Minimum)”. You could also turn up the “SubDivision Level”, but that would just make your display slower and do the same thing for the render"
Anyway, I tried 'SubD Displacement Level' at 6 with -1/+1 displacement, but it looked awful. I also tried 10 and DS stopped responding.
mac
The Render Time SubD is the node (figure or prop) property for items that are converted to SubD. The SubD Displacement Level is the surface property. (I can't recall the details, but they don't use the same SubD algorithm - the specs have been posted by Spooky or one of the devs in one of the Iray threads.)
Is the setting you're talking about 'SubD Displacement Level'? I thought I was looking for something else.
Someone in this thread said "The setting you’re looking for is “Render SubD Level (Minimum)”. You could also turn up the “SubDivision Level”, but that would just make your display slower and do the same thing for the render"
Anyway, I tried 'SubD Displacement Level' at 6 with -1/+1 displacement, but it looked awful. I also tried 10 and DS stopped responding.
mac
That was me. I mentioned using the setting in the parameters over the one in the material because I haven't had any luck using the material setting. Whenever I tried it, it wouldn't render at all with my graphics card. Ideally, you'd be able to use the material setting, but it doesn't seem to work for either of us right now.
I'm not seeing a problem with the shader based displacement.
This image is with single poly squares, 1x1 meter, min. disp. 0 and max. 10.
Left to right the SubD Displacement Levels are 7, 6, 5, 4 and 3
But of course the left-most square has 16K polygons.
lol
...here's one at subD level 12, just because. That's 4.2M micropolygons :-)
(Done on a 4GB, core 2 duo 4500 with no GPU, took an extra 4 minutes before the first iteration.)