issues with fitting clothing to very slender/petite female characters.
kyoto kid
Posts: 41,042
n..this has sort of been a long running situation as not all of my female characters are runway models or comic book heroines (actually very few are).
Most recent case, i have a "Twiggy" type character which I fit the Go Go Dress for G3 to. Now the actual real life person was very thin and somewhat lanky with a very petite bust (nearly flat)
When I fit the dress to the character, (particularly when using the "Black and White" material set) it comes out all wrong. teh fit is horrible with an odd bulge both in the centre front and on the sides of the upper chest that not to follow the character's actual shape (which is odd as most clothing fits tends to be more "cling wrap" like in nature). I tried everything from adjusting smoothing settings, JCMs, actual morphs transferred to the dress using hidden parameters, dFormers, and even tried using the Transfer Utility and Morph Loader, but still cannot seem to get it to look like it does in the promo image. (see attachments below).
This is standard conforming clothing not dForce. I have no idea of how to apply dForce to a non dForce item and usually from what I understand it often results in explosions (I only have a few dForce products and use the dForce Companion to run the sims)..
Attachments:
#1.Go Go Dress promo image.
#2 Character and dress front view.
#3 Character and dress side view.
#4 Character in swimsuit..
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Comments
It's the weight mapping. The bones for the dress (goto Tools and Joint Editor) have a weight node map to the bones. There is 2 ways to attack this one easier but not always as effective.
The Easy Way: Start deleting bones and see if that doesn't help. This is kinda trickey because you can't undo a bone deletion.
The Right Way: Edit the node weight map, which I'm not that experienced and it's lengthy sort of, so try looking that up.
I've got a scene setup with a similar issue, and thought about it, but shelved it and haven't returned to fix it myself, but those are the ideas I came up with to address it when I do.
What the dress requires is a shape to be dialed in specifically for that character's shape.
I actually have that dress! Is "Twiggy" basically any particular character that is sold here? Or a compilation of dialed in morphs that with a preset I could apply it to my G3F? {this only works of course IF I happen to have the required morphs}.
...no I just used the name because most people are familiar with her. The actual character in the attachments above is a custom dial spun one of my own.
Getting the breasts to dial down properly (and not cause distortion in the clothing fit) was a difficult process in and of itself. Even with such morph/shaping content as Bread Control, Natural Petite Morphs, the Growing Up morphs, as well as adjusting the pectoral regions and even the still could not get a smooth result that didn't affect the clothing fit. This has been a vexing issue sine the V4 days which I thought would be solved with weight mapping.
Not sure how to specifically "dial in" a character shape to clothing. When I select Hidden Parameters all the ones that pertain to the morphs used have the correct settings, just that they are not transferring correctly to the dress. With the chest area it's as if it is expecting to see V7-like boobs that aren't there in the custom character. Also not sure why the skirt is so wavy compared to the promo image.
You can't dial in a character shape if it's not supported. That's on the creators side ;)
But the dress looks simple enough to give dForce a try. If it will explode you have nothing to loose and can try then another solution. For a quick test it's quite simple:
Window > Panes > open Simulation Settings
With the dress selected click the Hamburger Menu on the top right of the pane > dForce > add dForce Modifier: Dynamic Surface. Then click the blue "Simulate" button and hold your fingers crossed!
I'd try dForce first - often fixes all sorts of issues.
The breast one you might have to create some Corrective Morphs to Dial out the shape on the cloth item when dialing it in on a character.
Let me know what ones you used, I'll trying to make those morphs for you - not promising all - presuming I have of course.
Oh, and I'm presuming G8F, but seem to recall you saying you used G3F?
You could export to blender, use shrinkwrap, adjust a bit, then import back to daz studio as a dress morph.
One has to make the specific character shape in the clothing first {when it wasn't made by the PA}. I just happened to be releasing a tutorial on this topic today. The basic concept is to send figure and clothing into a modeller, fix the clothing {i.e. use a smoothing brush in Hexagon for eg.}, then {since there's just this one shape and you likely don't have ShapeInjector} select the garment in D/S, bring the morphed .obj file back into D/S and {instead of making a prop} make a morph. Reverse Deformations. Name the morph as you please and park it where you want to find it. Zero the figure, zero the clothing, select the clothing and save the new morph. File > Save As > ... > morph asset ...
...the character is built not on individual character morph, but several combined body shapes and specialised morphs like Breast Control, Body Morph Kit, Body Diversity, and Growing Up so would ShapeInjector even work? It does sound like the best solution compared to dealing with attempting to create morph assets in a modeller (my modelling skills are pretty meagre).
Again, other than using dForce Assistant I have never worked with dForce "in the raw" so to say. I don't even know how to set up non dForce content for use with dForce. I looked at some of the early tutorials, but given the little use I have for it outside of working with dedicated dForce content, didn't feel the need to spend the time with it as I still primarily work with G3.
No, ShapeInjector would not work with that. That's why I was suggesting the more common way to save it as a regular morph for the clothing.
...in a way thanks, saved me 24$ and in a way a disappointment as there seems to be no intuitive solution to deal with this. I even tried the G3F Clothing Fixer which I got a while back for such instances, and it did nothing. The only option remaining is to manually fit it to the character (which I've done in the pre-Genesis days) but it is incredibly painstaking and needs to be manually "fixed" after posing.
Sad that idealised fashion models and comic/fantasy heroines are primarily supported rather than normal everyday female characters
Sort of miss the old Morph Follower from 3.1 which did a better job at handling such issues..
Okay, I'm back - had to get a bandaid for my typing finger lol ...
I checked My Products library, I do have Growing Up for G8F [G3F] - but none of the other products you mentioned. I'll see what I can do with that garment.
..OK, thanks.
Oh do ou have Fantasy Races HD Faces and Bodies by Lyoness? I use 60% of th Elf body shape on the character..
I did realize in time that the dress was for G3F, so did manage to get this morph done. It will dial in as much as one dials in the Youth Morph.
To note: It is not perfect BECAUSE {aside from my morphing abilities} when that morph is dialed in on the figure, it does a nasty on the waistline and the garment is in 2 pieces! So I didn't try to straighten all that up. A better choice for morphing clothing to these youth morphs would be items either intended for above or below the waist ... or that are solid in the first place.
Also I did use some dForce to get the skirt part morphed, the entire garment is NOT dForce friendly. If one wants to use dForce, I'd recommended putting on a weight map and negating the weights for the entire top and the waistline of the skirt.
Hope this is helpful for you kyoto kid.
Um, no, apparently you've found another item I don't own. Fantasy Races HD Faces and Bodies is not on sale atm either. Anyhow, give this a try and see if it helps - then at least we'll know if the concept is traveling in the right direction.
For those who do not have Growing Up for G3F, yes the morph will still work in the GoGo Dress for G3F IF you dial it in.
I got semi-acceptable results with "growing up", but combinations of morphs frequently stress the auto-fit in my experience; I could damage the neckline beyond usability with the musculature morphs. I used "breasts gone" to 100% to demonstrate a simple part of the problem: first is G3F, second is with breasts-gone and third is after I dForced the dress:
As @Catherine3678ab observes Dress1 is not actually connected to Dress2. I don't know a way of fixing that and, unfortunately, it is common in older non-dForced wardrobe. I guess it could be fixed by adding dForce weight nodes to the top of Dress2 but it wouldn't work correctly; after all the second picture clearly shows the two surfaces overlapping.
Consequently I don't think dForce is an option for this dress; it's probably better just to look for another product which is already set up for dForce.
The only way to 'fix' it for dForce would be to get rid of those "let's make an interior hem" meshes and join the mesh around the waistline, and then to remake that .obj into clothing. The down side is all the morphs for the dress would be lost.
...thank you for the morph.
The chest area is where I have the most trouble when fitting adult female clothing to a more slender/petite figure that is where worst mesh distorts occur. This is why I never use striped textures,
Meanwhile I was messing around with the morphs in the dress and after over an hour, sort of got it looking OK except for some pesky pokethrough on the upper centre part of the chest. I also discovered some of the thin body morphs (like "Elf Body") tend to cause the "kink" in the lower middle portion of the skirt.
@ jbowler ...thank you for trying, yeah I thought as much. I was actually noticing the split when I was playing around with the various morphs i the dress after initially fitting it to the character. As I mention above I kind of got it looking better then the earlier attempts but the vexing part is a small patch of pokethrough in he upper middle chest. given the design of the dress, can't just turn that body region "off" Short of resorting to dFormers (which I haven't tried yet), nothing else I tried would solve it. I guess I should have mentioned I only used a small percentage of the various morph utilities save for the body shape morphs I combined. I also had to set Smoothing to 50 and Collision Iterations to 5
Back in the Gen4 days, someone created a nice "Flat Chest" freebie to use with Vicky4 for creating younger characters that worked beautifully. Using the Morph Follower in Daz 3.1 there was little to no distortion.. .
There is a flat chest morph on DA but it's for G8 not G3 so that won't work. A bugger as one would solve part of having to use so many morphs to reduce the breast area. Just using ones like Breasts Small, Breasts Gone, or Youth Chest by themselves doesn't make for a smooth chest as distortion in the areola region begins to show which often translates into clothing fits In order to get a good relatively smooth flat chest I had to use a combination of several morph kits, including a bit of the "Youth Chest" morph from Growing Up. This is likely why ShapeInjector won't work (as per Catherine's post a little further above) as the character just has too many different morphs many that are just set to small percentages.
This is why I wish I could have afforded one of the newer versions of Marvelous Designer (when they still had perpetual licences) as I could use the actual character I created as the avatar to build the clothing on so the morphs and shapes would be "designed" into the clothing mesh (I found MD much more intuitive than a traditional modeller as I used to work in theatrical costuming).
@ nicstt ...I'll PM the morph settings to you.
Those issues I saw in the image by Catherine, of the chest area - looks like it is due to the growing up morphs. I've got the list @Kyoto kid, so will see if i can create some reverse defo morphs.
Cheers got em; there are a lot, some of which I don't have; we'll start with the growing up ones
would creating a base resolution single morph version of your character using morphloader help I wonder?
if you adjust rigging to figure shape, run ERC freeze and save it then change it to clone shape under properties in a new load you can model or drape clothing to fit that shape and use that in the transfer utility to fit it to the shape
Well, that seems to have worked surprisingly well.
Of the morphs I have:
... The only ones that seemed to make a noticeable difference were the Chest Morphs from Growing Up, namely: YB1 - the only one you used. The Chest Adjustment can help but is limited and might depend?
1. None of the Projection Morphs I made dialled in.
2. Dialled in to match the values in the Chest Morphs from Growing Up.
I dialled in a more extreme morph - see image - to see if that had less affect, but worked well.
..hmm haven't thought of that. Thanks I'll give that a rty.