G8 and G8.1
digitell
Posts: 577
in The Commons
I was looking in the shop for items I need, and I am wondering..If I buy something for G 8.1 will I be able to use it on G 8? Or vise versa?
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It depends what it is - something using the 8.1 UVs won't work, and materials in general will need copying and pasting for the torso and back of the head. Things which depend on a parent may need ersuading to apply, and fitted items will need to have AutoFit cancelled (but will then work).
Thank you for your reply Richard. I was more concerned with wearable items than materials. So from what you said, just cancel autofit and things should fall into place.
Thanks! :)
I can say in the case of the outfit I released today it will work with the supported Genesis 8 shapes dialed up on the Genesis 8.1 base figure -- howeve, if you try to load a fresh Genesis 8 figure of the same shape it will not work.
Thank you for your reply Half Life. Hmm..sounds like it may be a bit iffy then. I may have to take an alternative way then. Many thanks!
I'm so glad I hunted this down. I was hoping it would work with 8 as well as 8.1. I have so much more invested in 8 than the newest.
Thank you for this information!!!
To be clear, if you own a Genesis 8 figure you can load both the shape and materials for that figure on the Genesis 8.1 base -- which would then allow the use of the outfit.
I made a quick video showing the process of loading a Generation 8 figures Shape and Materials set on the Genesis 8.1 base. This then allows for the use of outfits that are made for Genesis 8.1 on your Generation 8 characters.
https://youtu.be/DsAmpW8sTvc
Thank you for the video! Very helpful! :)
I just have to ask. What about it, specifically, makes it incompatible with G8?
I'm not sure why they made the system work that way, but if you build on Genesis 8.1 it is not backwards compatible with Genesis 8. If I had to guess it would be the differences in rigging and UVs, but DAZ could answer that question better than I could.
There is no difference in geometry or rigging
I thought there was a whole new rigging setup in the head. I haven't paid that much attention because my thing is mostly shaders and materials. When I am collaborating, I leave all the rigging and geometry issues (aside from dForce, which is related to materials) to my partner.
No, there is only additional/optional Facial Control Rig, which can be used to create expressions, but the G8.1 base geometry and rigging is the same. G8.1 does also have a new UV in addition to G8 UV, but that does not effect fitting clothing and/or hair.
There is no reason to limit compatibility of the clothing to G8.1 only.
I am even more confused than when I started reading this thread.
EDIT: Thanks for the video guide for the UVs. That was very helpful and much appreciated.
Genesis 8.1 can load Genesis 8 content because Daz placed instructions for it to do so - making that bi-directional probably wasn't practical, since some content is not compatible (e.g. anything using the new UVs) and would have been an extra layer of complexity. It is possible to make things backward compatible, or just use them and override any quibbles from the system, but it does require some awareness of the potential problem areas.
Perhaps I'm missing something critical, but this seems like a relatively minor inconvenience, which you only have to deal with once. Meaning it takes less than 2 minutes to load a Genesis 8 character on the Genesis 8.1 base (as you can see in the video). And once you've done that, you can save it as a preset, which means you'll never need to do it again.
Furthermore, if you do it that way, you now have access to the improved Genesis 8.1 facial rig/expressions, and can switch freely between Genesis 8 and Genesis 8.1 skin material sets. Plus, it costs nothing to do since the Genesis 8.1 base is free. It seems to be nearly all upside, with almost no downside.
My question is what is the benefit of G8.1 over G8? What makes it better than G8??
Aside from the new UVs and skin shader (which is where my interest lies) there is the facial rig seen in this video:
The DAZ info page on Genesis 8.1 is here: https://www.daz3d.com/genesis-8-1
Ahhh OK, I see now..the expressions can be fine tuned. Thank you again for the great video. Much Appreciated! :)
Expresions are better with G8.1. Preference for the new skin shader, which is not exclusive to 8.1...it was only introduced at the same time...is relative. Personally, I prefer the Uber Shader.
But to answer your clothing fitment concerns...clothing for G8 will fit on G8.1 no problem. You won't get an auto-fit dialog, it will just load on the figure as normal.
Why so complicated, and have you tried that it actually works when trying to use the preset to fit the clothing to a G8 base figure as the clothing was still fitted to a G8.1 when the preset was created?
All it takes, is to load a Genesis 8 figure to the scene and with the figure unselected, load the G8.1 clothing to the scene and use the Scene Identification to change the "Preferred base" of the clothing to Genesis 8 Female/Male, fit the clothing to the figure and save a "Wearable Preset" => One has a G8 version of the clothing that can be fitted to G8 and G8.1 figures.
Sure, but you dodged my point about why use Genesis 8 Base when using the Genesis 8.1 was the superior choice. We didn't even discuss the issue of supporting the Genesis 8 base directly until it was time to submit to DAZ, because we both didn't even consider that anybody would want to use the Genesis 8 base instead of the Genesis 8.1 base -- it's a counter-intuitive decision. But then again, I dropped 3Delight as soon as Iray came around -- I'm not one to hold onto old technology, so I have a hard time understanding why others would choose to (or more specifically what advantage that choice provides in this instance). We could still update the product (if it seems worthwhile to do so), and would have already if DAZ asked us to during the submission process...
Fitting G8.1 clothing on G8 base was the question the OP asked and if one had followed the posts here on the forum, one could have seen that a lot of people have not transitionned to use of G8.1 for multitude of reasons, one being that it's the same figure albeit with some 'decorations' they don't find necessary.
Yeah, I also see some users that insist on sticking with 3Delight (and they have their reasons) but that is a dead-end, and that group of users is not getting any larger. All the new DAZ Original figures are based on the Genesis 8.1 platform. If even one of them is appealing to you then you will need to make the move to Genesis 8.1... so, it makes sense to me as a creator that most users would naturally migrate to Genesis 8.1 (if they haven't already). Perhaps my partner and I misread the mood of the user-base regarding the new generation of figures. However, it's a generally accepted principle that the forums overall are more likely to be negative about most things pertaining to (and done by) DAZ than the sales numbers actually show.
Still there is no reason to limit the compatibility base of G8.x clothing or hair to G8.1 only.
I think I see where you are coming from. In my mind I thought of it as being the same as users who refuse to upgrade to Genesis 8 (from Genesis 3). I heard plently of people say for the first few months that there was nothing about Genesis 8 that justified the change in generations, and that they would just stick with Genesis 3.
Doesn't look like it.
Setting the compatibility base to G8 does not prevent using them on G8.1 just the same, so why leave G8 out on purpose?
Perhaps the materials are Hierarchical Material Presets? That would make it more difficult to use the outfit on G8, since the program would throw an error when the user tried to change the materials.
Some of us DAZ customers create our own characters by combining morphs from different generations of figures and alter skin to be exactly the way we want it to look. Then we make renders of these characters and publish them on paper (books, comic books, book covers) or similarly publish them online. Some of us have followings of thousands of readers who expect to see the characters they've been following for 5 years, look the same. Each new generation of figures DAZ creates, and content made for those new figures causes problems with trying to maintain a specific look for a character - in the worst cases - making the old familiar character imposible to transfer to the new figures, and the new clothing unfittable to the old characters. It's not a matter of not wanting to adapt to new technology - I WOULD LOVE ❤️ TO BE ABLE TO TRANSFER MY CUSTOM CHARACTERS TO THE NEW FIGURES, and the new versions of DAZ Studio. But I've tried and tried and a lot of times it just can't be done - UNFORTUNATELY. Poser renders have a specific look, 3Delight has a specific look, iRay has a specific look. If what is important to an artist is to maintain a specific established look with their characters and their renders, then upgrading anything causes a LOT of problems. I dread DAZ bringing out new versions of anything. I DREAD it.