Cascadeur 2022.EA1
TheMysteryIsThePoint
Posts: 2,946
The release notes for the upcoming drop contains an interesting bullet item:
+++ Outlook on Cascadeur version 2022.EA1 +++
Most interesting features and improvements:
- Viewport mouse input customization
- Python API to add commands for automation
- Node editor tool and Python API to allow low-level rig editing
- Animation cycles enhancements
- Better FBX support, including full support for DAZ characters
- Autoposing - new IK-based system with improved behavior and performance. Also a head direction controller was added.
- Physics tools - new option to smoothen the angular momentum and the speed of the character.
- Improved secondary motion tool with more natural behavior and better customization
I don't know what this means, but previously, it wasdifficult to get the FBX export of a G8 imported correctly. One had to completely delete all the face bones first, and jump through some other hoops.
They've also released some new training, since the software has evolved so much: Cascadeur Learning Course
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Comments
They seem to be catering to Daz Studio. This might be the missing IK that DS animators need. The characterization process is straightforward.
Part 1
Part 2
nice...thanks for the heads up
I have an older version of the software installed, Never got around to really deep diving it.
However ,Having watched the videos I see Zero advantage of this program as an external animation solution for G8 figures….. ZERO!!
First, the Cascaedure software is supposed to be a Character physics/dynamics software on par with the legendary( Discontinued) natural motion “Endorphin”
( which I still have installed on two older laptops)
With Endorphin, I simply run my ragdoll/physics simulation and export to a BVH Compatible with the legacy Poser/Millenuim 4 & Genesis one Figures in Daz Studio.
From there it is a simple matter to re-save the motion for a G3/8 Figures using the animated .duf method discovered by @Wendyluvscatz
Even with my access to Endorphin, the powerful rigid IK restraints are NOT exportable in ANY format and must be solved with the internal IK restraint system of the importing app, as I had to do for the ,leap to helicopter, shot in this Blender clip.
Also, I understand that external retargeting apps have a “Characterization” process that my require some initial manual grunt work, this is true even for the RL 3DX pipeline software.
However once that manual bone map process is completed there need to be an option to save a custom profile of the bone map for future use, as is the case with RL 3DX( and likely Autodesk MOBU)
I did not see such an option in the video ( unless I missed it)
For all of that labor ,one may as well have used the Rokoko retargeter in Blender
Literally a one click retargeting process compatible with the entire MIxamo Catalogue, in Blender
and use Diffeo to export the motion back to Daz studio as native animated pose file (.duf).
thanks for the technical review
Hi Wolf,
The IK did not impress you? All the necessary tweaking could be done with this.
You did miss the load/save of the "characterization" process. What I didn't see was the load/save of the body masses. That seemed to be the more tedious of the two processes.
I would not be comfortable with discontinued software no longer generally available in my workflow, even if I could somehow acquire it. I don't even use MoBu anymore.
There are very few bona fide retargeting options available that work with dissimilar rigs, and in all situations. Rokoko retargeter is not one of them. The differences are usually slight, but often enough for me to prefer to just pay for Maya Indie.
I still do not understand why you keep saying that IK doesn't export. I think you might mean that Blender in particular does not export it, because I did notice that when IK is active, the bone rotations don't seem to be reflected, as if it's layered on top like a modifier that needs to be applied before exporting to "bake" the IK in. BVH is a very naive format that just exports the bone rotations. It will not know whther the rotations came from IK or FK. BVH is purely FK; you can crack open a BVH and see this or look at the format description.
Another thing that Cascadeur is reported to do for you is to make everything thrown at it more natural, including improving janky mocap data. The AI apparently knows the difference between natural motions and joint pops, etc... and that is my primary interest. If you could use a PN Pro and have it perform like a Studio or XSens, that'd be a game changer, for sure.
Hi Donald, Rigid restraints with real-time Ik solving do not export even with an FBX baked to FK.
Because reach targets Have to be Solved by your internal constraints system.
I mean a persons hand locked on a swinging trapeze or even a somersault as you see in the older Cascadeur videos.
That simple military salute is not a very great example.
Most G8 users are only interested in retargeting to G8 with the option of getting motion Data back to DS with fidelity.
The Rokoko add-on has a manual bone mapping option and can save profiles for any biped rig
It just so happens that it works with G8 by default without any manual bone mapping.
So there is less work with the retargeting and Diffeo exports to the native .duf format
As far as data from mocap systems, of course Autodesk and even Reallusion are the better for options.
The reality is that AI based solutions like the plask AI online tools, are getting better, and as they do peoples expectation about ease of use, regarding character motion development, tend to change as well.
looking at the Cascadeure videos specifically as a tool for Daz G8 users today, that simple “salute” animation with no root locomotion did not impress me considering the labor that went into getting such a simple animation into Daz studio.
A salute that frankly could have been created with Daz studios puppeteer tool
Particularly compared to the really complex leaps and landings I have seen in other videos created completely with cascaduer
It would have been more impressive to see a process for retargeting dynamic motions to G8
such as the ones in the headline video on the main cascadeur channel
https://www.youtube.com/c/Cascadeur/featured
Hi Wolf, OK, now I get it... and we're both right. You are thinking of a more complicated scenario than I am.
Now that I've looked at some other videos, I agree that Cascadeur has a ways to go to reach the usability you wrote about.
But I think it'll be (when EA3 is released) very useful for fixing mocap data, which is my use case. I'll continue to retarget in Maya, at least until I can figure out how to do everything in H19. I have much faith in SideFX.
I agree totally with your assessment of AI trends. move.ai is being frustratingly closed-lipped about their tech and pricing.
Personally I mostly agree with @wolf359.
I have to say that the automatic secondary motion is impressive. But the retargeting and rigging process takes too much. And as shown in the video often you spend more time fighting the automatic motion than getting benefits from it. At least this is what I get as a first impression never used this software myself.
I find this one much more useful and easy to use.
https://blenderartists.org/t/bonedynamics-a-new-addon-for-bone-physics/1314017
@Padone
For clarification ,I am very impressed with the Character motion dev capabilities of the Cascaduer software .
And I am sure it has alot of utility as a general purpose motion dev & retargeter
However when a Character motion application makes a point of claiming to now offer ”Support” of the latest Daz genesis rigs, I tend to hold them to the same Standard as other programs that make that claim in 2022.
For me, that means I import a FBX of a G8 Figure and its skeletal rig is auto recognized, twist bones and all,.. ready for retargeting
This is exactly what happens with RL 3DX
This is exactly what happens with the free Rokoko Add-on for Blender , as I demonstrate clearly in my tutorials.
And both of these options at least export the Data to a format, official supported by Daz studio (BVH, Duf)
Now yes ,technically cascaduer can import a G8 skeleton and apply motion to it
( after much manual grunt work), which could count as ’Support” of the G8 figures.
However IMHO , there does not seem to be any Daz Genesis specific features that would make this
a particularly attractive option for external motion dev for Daz studio.
I've just watched the tuto and then imported daz model in casca, made a pose and imported back in daz. There are things you can do more easily than explained in the tutorial
When exporting you better be sure the knees are a little bit bend, otherwise casca get confused about knee bend direction. same for elbows
For quickrig tool you can choose the predefined quickrig template for daz (they are in C:\Program Files\Cascadeur\resources\autorig_templates). The problem with this template is that it has Gensesi8Male as root, so you copy it, edit (it's a text file) and replace Genesis8Male by Genesis8Female, then it will fill the autorig.
I aligned box controllers to arms and legs, just rotated and you can copy paste the raotation from the properties from one side to another if you want precise match of left and right sides. Also changed the size of some rigid bodies, like explained in tutorial. Other than that I didn't move anything like the tuto does.
Before exporting, to avoid problems in daz, you can choose which bones you want to export. You go into "bone" mode or in the hierarchy pane, select all face bones and toes and uncheck Fbx export -> is exported. Then you select all bones and uncheck export translate and scale, finally you choose root (Genesis8MAle/Female) and hip and check the export translate. This way you export only rotation for all the bones and for root/hip also translation.
Then you import it in daz like the tuto explained
The BIG problem I see, are the twist bones in arms and legs, Cascadeur is not using them, it will try to twist the shoulder directly instead of shoulder_twist, which is not how daz is expected to work. If somebody can fix that then it will be perfect. Please let me know if you know how to fix it!
The Cascadeur currently is not supporting that kind of twist bones, that's what I mean. Here is says it in the documentation: https://cascadeur.com/help/rig/advanced_rigging/advanced_rigging_techniques/twist_bones (2nd screenshot)
"If a twist bone continues the limb joint, like on the image below, this mean it cannot be used for controlling rotation: Cascadeur rig doesn't currently support this kind of 'reverse' hierarchy."
But they also said they will support daz better in next version, so maybe this will be that
In blender we copy the twist rotation to the twist bone and the bend rotations to the bend bone. I mean when exporting from mhx to duf. I guess for cascadeur you could write a script that does the same.
Spent some time messing around with this, and so far my normal method of "to hell with the manual and tutorials, I can figure this out myself" has let me down.
Because I'm a lunatic, I almost immediately started trying to rig and animate a centaur in Cascadeur. Unfortunately, my house lost power before I got too far into the process.
@gordig Of course the Universe is against you otherwise it's too easy to get things done. It always happens to me too if it may be of any consolation. But, if you get a UPS for your PC then the Universe will have to break both the house power and the UPS and I guess there's some rules about "probability" that may not be ignored .. at first.
Has anyone successfully rigged a G8? I can't figure out where I'm going wrong. The rig doesn't seem to respect joint limits, or even mesh integrity, so moving the legs basically at all pushes the butt way up, and sometimes twists the pelvis all the way around. It's just a mess. Just to see if there's something fundamental that I'm not understanding, I loaded Mixamo's default Xbot character, and only had to make one small change to make it fully functional; I didn't even have to define the joints like I do with G8.
OK, I figured out, if not THE problem, potentially at least A problem: the rigging tool creates box controllers with no rotation on Genesis characters, whether T- or A-pose. This is not the case with other imported models.
@Gordig The tutorial shows that you have to do a number of fits to the automatic rig, including to fix the rotations, if this is what you mean. But no, didn't try cascadeur myself.
It does seem to be specific to Genesis figures, since Mixamo characters and Daz Horse 2 right with correct rotations. I don't know if it's just that I updated to the current version of Cascadeur or if I learned something that I don't remember, but I was able to make a crappy walk cycle with it, so that's at least a start.
Not bad considering I've barely attempted character animation before. I certainly learned some important lessons in the process.
Getting more of a feel for the workflow, now I just need to learn the mechanics of animation better.
edit: whoops, I thought I fixed the elbow going through the body, but apparently it needed another pass before I rendered it.
No not bad at all you have to work on the timing but the overall body mechanics is quite good already.
Getting a little more adventurous.
Be forewarned; you're the resident Cascadeur expert already.
I'm always happy to help, but that is discouraging inasmuch as there are certain things about the program I haven't been able to figure out. I'd gladly trade what knowledge I have about the program for general animation tips.
wow, that kingfu flip looked great