Unofficial Poll - Products that use Custom Shaders?
Half Life
Posts: 479
I recently released a product that offered bonus materials using my custom Ireal Shaders. I saw this only as a value-added feature that was purely optional. The product works fine if you do not own my custom shaders. It's just that those bonus materials will not work without the Ireal Shaders. However, there are still the regular Iray Ubershader versions of each material, so the product was fully functional without the added purchase.
However, DAZ decided to list the product as requiring the extra purchase of the Ireal Shaders, which was not my intention when creating the product. And I am concerned the product under-performed to some degree because of this perceived required purchase. However, I would like to continue offering these better quality material options for my future releases because I personally find them better looking. In fact, I am working on another such product right now.
So my question is this: How do you as a user perceive this situation? Which option do you think is the best path forward?
1) Continue to offer better quality materials as an option in the product regardless of the "required purchase" label on the product page.
2) Separate the better quality materials from the product, and instead offer them as a freebie download, to avoid the "required purchase" label on the product page.
3) Don't bother with anything but the Iray Ubershader versions since I will never purchase your Ireal Shaders anyway.
4) Don't bother with the inferior Iray Ubershader versions since I already own your Ireal Shaders and will only use that version of the product.
Thanks in advance for your feedback.
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Comments
I have seen similar situations where there are required products for optional features, but the description states very clearly that they are for specific optional features. Or, don't put them as a required product, but mention it in the description, boldly. Your supporters will learn that you also use these optional shaders, but by having the regular Iray materials, buyers won't immediately lose interest, and can focus on the product itself.
I would go for option 2 although that does require more work for you seperating the parts and making the free download available. Option 1 would be the next best, I don't like options 3 or 4 at all.
The ideal solution would be for the Daz store to be modified so that as well as required items it had some sort of "supported ehnancements" section but I don't expect that would be very likely, and it might not be possible.
Personally, not a fan of products that rely on other products, but then again, I hate paying more for a product with lots of options I will never use. I checked out the Ireal Shaders and nothing about them popped for me, so I doubt I would ever purchase them.
I guess number two would be my choice, but I assume I would need the Ireal Shaders for the freebies to work, correct?
Yes, the Ireal Shaders are the basis of the improved materials (the theoretical freebies in this case) because they offer features the Iray Ubershader does not.
My only concern is how to widely distribute the freebies. For instance I just released a freebie on the forum and on my DeviantArt. It seems many liked it, but I wondered if more people who could really use it will ever find out about it. I wonder if most people don't just buy the product and never would go looking for any possible associated freebies.
The freebie download seems the best option, for me, I always check the required products and if I own them before purchase. Sometimes just seeing if the owned tag is next to it without even reading it. although I think the bonus materials are a great selling point and should be advertised as as the little extras in a product can tip me over the edge to splash out.
But yes having that required product tag I could see putting people off from buying it just because they don't know if it's required or required required.
Either 1) or 2), both seem fine to me.
I've long learned that in the DAZ store, "required" doesn't always mean actually required. If a product interests me I will take a more careful look at the description before dismissing it because of a requirement.
Option 2 is good, too, though. It may even get you some extra exposure!
The best option if you don't have any control over what DAZ does in the store listing is to spell it all out clearly in the written description. Freebies are nice but most people won't find out about them.
It might be confusing for newcomers maybe, but overall I don't think it's an issue if you spell it out clearly in the description that it's only necessary for the alternate materials. It's great advertising for your shader as well, which I find essential for improving metals and shiny surfaces in general.
Whether it's worth the effort of including the extra materials, you can probably decide better based on how the shader itself performed I think. If it sold well, then I think the best option is to inlcude them with the product, otherwise maybe the freebie option might be better?
Yes, this is my major concern about the freebies path -- though that seems to be the most popular option, based on the feedback thus far.
There is another wrinkle to consider: I want to use my Ireal Shader materials in any promos for my products because they look much better to me. But I'm concerned that buyers may see that as "false advertising" if I package those materials seperate from the actual product they get when they buy from DAZ.
You can always have it listed as Product used in these promos option.
The product description for the sci-fi outfit doesn't seem to imply that your custom shader options are a bonus. Just that it has two options.
If I had to pick a choice from your poll, I'd go with #1. Just that it should mention somewhere in the "Details" section of the product description that the custom shader materials are an added bonus. (Even though I'm more of a #3 person. My laptop sometimes struggles with custom shaders, so I avoid them.)
That's odd. When I pull up the product page I see this at the bottom of the description:
"Plus, to increase the realism of your LT Sci-fi Outfit, each material has an optional iFabric version as a bonus for owners of Half Life's iReal Shaders."
If you don't see that too, something may be wrong with the store. Or perhaps the verbiage as written is not clear enough?
I think the language is clear enough but it could be even more explicit.
In all those promos with the side-by-sides, the caption could say: "Default Preset - no additional products required" and "Optional Bonus Preset - requires iReal Shaders"
What I've done in situations where I add "required products" but those are only if you want to use the "included bonus options" is that I not only spell it clearly in the description, but I also may reserve a promo or more stating that fact as well (like I do in the first two promos of this product and the fifth promo of this product, as examples). This way, even if they don't read the description, the important information is conveyed when they look at the promos.
So just adding a promo showing how the figure looks with your customer shaders vs the iray shaders with captions that stipulate both things are included will work to clear up what that requirement means.
The product underperfoming also might have to do with the fact that it doesn't fit into the usual Sexy Space Kitten category, but the boob window makes it unusable to thos who are looking for more practical outfit.
I'll pass that onto my collaborator who created the geometry, because that has nothing to do with me. Do you have an opinion on the question I asked?
There are several products in the store which list as required products "any" product required in order for "all" of the purchased product to work. So we get to used to [or should be used to] reading the Product Descriptions to see what is or isn't really required for the product to work.
I prefer that both options be kept in the Product offered. That way everything stays also in our Product Library.
Yes the Product Page states that the extras are an option. Perhaps [just an idea] a wording BONUS: " includes ...." for those who have "..."
Would I buy your custom shaders, well they are on sale and sitting in the basket, we'll see ;-)
LOL, thanks for considering them ;-)
Yes, one of the more useful points that has come up in this thread several times is things I could have done things differently in the text (whether on images, or in the description) to make my intentions more clear. I am taking notes on all of this.
I own your shaders, so the requirement didn't throw me off, but I think FenixPhoenix's advice is the best way to go about it. Plenty of buyers skip the description and just go by the promos (sensible, when one's browsing the thousands of things offered on a given sale) so having all the key information in the promos is a very good way to both avoid a frustrated customer and a lost sale due to someone misinterpreting the requirements. About the freebie option, I think most users never realize those are even a thing. I am a forum user--which we are frequently told are a minority--and I still manage to miss out on freebies for things I own, so I think clearly labeling that it's a bonus and adds value is the best way to go around the issue. So, basically, option 1, but with the caveat that things should be clear in the promos, and maybe seeing if it's possible not to have the shaders show as a requirement on the page, with just a link in the description when the bonus material options are explained.
Yes, the "Required Products" thing tends to discourage me from seriously considering a product, especially if the required product isn't something required for a large number of items. In a way, Daz and/or the PA are asking a customer to buy a specialized product just to make another specialized product fully functional. I suspect that a lot of us feel that that's poor value for money spent.
I find that many things that PAs consider to be value-added selling points are actually just clutter and file-bloating stuff. I'm basing my purchasing decision on the main items. You're not going to sell me on a wardrobe item with things like lights, shaders, expressions, etc., as add-ons.
So Option #2 is probably the option I'd go with.
(Under-performance of the dForce LT Sci-fi Outfit is probably due to multiple factors. Genesis 8 has been out long enough that a genre like sci-fi is rather oversaturated for G8F outfits. This product aims to fill a need that has probably already been filled for many Daz users And the price is rather steep, especially when you consider that older Genesis 8 outfits from excellent PAs are available for under $10.)