General Posing Efficiency Query
richardandtracy
Posts: 5,889
I have a query. Well, probably several.
Can anyone think of better/more efficient way of working when posing than currently offered by DS?
Not sure I can, but with a pose from scratch usually taking over an hour, I wonder of anyone can describe a more efficient way of posing a figure than with the tools we have currently available in DS? I know pose libraries can be used to get part way, but even tweaking poses from pose libraries could benefit from more efficient tools. I tend to look at 30 mins plus for a relatively modest tweak of another of my poses.
So, is there a way of improving efficiency in DS without extra tools? Or can you imagine better tools? Working with a linked glove for hand movements might be nice, but I'm not sure that many hobbiests would have that equipment, so could we limit suggestions to software mods that could make DS better?
Would expending PowerPose to bending limbs and doing hands be useful? Must admit I find I'm using PowerPose most for facial movements, but feel it could be more useful on other parts of the body.
Regards,
Richard
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Comments
Which generation are you using? I use G8 exclusively because of power pose and it bends limbs and you can close/open the hand with one of the dots, it doesn't take any time really to get the hand perfect. I can get a full body pose in a very short time with power pose. Earlier versions than G8, power pose doesn't work the same.
With that being said, I wish there was something like Blender where you hit G and move the limb where you want it. Or I'm using Maya a lot now and you hit W to move limbs with the arrow and E to rotate. I found I'm the quickest with maya's tools except the hands, so I pose the whole body or full animation in Maya and bring it to Daz with the daz to Maya bridge, delete the hand key frames and redo it with power pose. So yeah, I'd say Daz should have a hot key option to move or rotate limbs (and if there is one, please tell me).
I mostly use G8, but possibly due to my history have tended to use the individual bones rather than whole limbs with PowerPose.
As for the hand, I don't think that fingers look right after whole hand editing. When you look at your fingers, the angles between bone 1 & 2 are usually double the angle between 2 & 3, so any moderately relaxed hand pose not like that will look odd. And whole hand editing doesn't usually have that formula built in.
Regards,
Richard
Are you using an older version of Daz Studio? And is your computer slow? 30 minutes tweaking a pose is a long time.
Like with the hand, sounds like you do a lot of custom stuff, do you save your own poses? For instance, I save some of my own relaxed hands poses. I still use Genesis 3 mostly, for example I can load up a pose, tweak the arms, zero hands then apply relaxed poses to them and be GTG in a few minutes say if they're feet aren't visible from the camera or a reflective surface.
I don't really use G8 yet and I still just grab a bodypart in Studio and move it around. I mention if you use an older version as I noticed somewhere in 4.x IK has improved greatly. Directly in Studio with the Universal too, you have the axis arrows so you can move or rotate a bodypart just on one axis vs. a free movement with the mouse. Have you tried that lately?
I'd be curious to see your posing workflow, because it sounds like it's taking far longer than it needs to. Powerpose is already great for bending limbs and posing hands.
I can spend way longer than that tweaking a single pose or expression, and that's not even considering a piece with interacting figures. It really depends on your workflow, and what you're looking to do. I tend to try and find poses that get me into the ballpark of what I want to do in my head, whether that's a single pose or splitting different poses apart (I like that left arm, I like that right arm, I like those legs, etc). Then I tweak, tweak, tweak, tweak, and tweak some more. Manually move individual bones using the slider. Tweak again. Does that look natural? Look at myself doing said pose in the mirror. Does it look the same? Does my center of gravity not make sense? Tweak some more. Do people actually walk/stand/dowhatever like that? Tweak some more. You get the idea, lol.
I do not use PowerPose. It's too laggy for me. I prefer individual bone tweaking once I get limbs into the starting ballpark.
Sounds very familiar, including the mirror routine!
It often takes a very long time to fixi purchased poses too. I'm sure there are many that I have used which have had no bone left "un-corrected". Limbs twisted too much or unnaturally, body not balanced, etc. I often use Pose Architect for Genesis 8 Female by 3D Universe to get a starting pose. It keeps everything in balance which can save a lot of work vs fixing a pose where someone just grabbed a body part and jerked/pulled it into place
.
You could say that I save one or two. Currently I have 300+ poses (& mirrors of each pose) as freebies over on Rendo. Most poses are in the freebie forum here, but are much more difficult to find. Many of the poses are in themed sets of between 5 & 7 poses and 5-7 mirrors. I believe we're allowed to link to the ad-free PoserDazFreebies Wiki, well, the page of most of my stuff (and all my poses) is here: https://poserdazfreebies.miraheze.org/wiki/Category:Richardandtracy
Regards,
Richard.
Generally I position the trunk, use the IK chains for the gross movements of the limbs, then individual bones for hands & fine limb posing, and PowerPose for the face. Eyes are positioned by placing a camera at the object of interest and then manually pointing the eyes to that point. Then tweak, tweak, tweak to get it right. Think the longest I have ever taken is three hours with a pose, it's the big one in the middle of this image: https://poserdazfreebies.miraheze.org/wiki/File:G8FWalkingPoses01to05Promo.jpg . The hands took simply ages... Took about 3 hours for that pose.
All the time I will be trying the pose myself to see if the individual components are possible & comfortable & whether the Centre of Gravity is right. Finally, if it's a pose that might interfere with a lady's chest and I'm not sure about whether it's possible, I drag in my wife to pose it for me for a moment or two.
Regards,
Richard
My big thing is "de-sexifying" pretty much every female pose. Hips popped out...torso twisted/stretched in an awkward way...back hyper-arched...chest thrust upward. *sigh*
I've tried some of those poses. It's not comfortable, lol. What people actually sit/stand/walk/dowhatever like that? I always have the mantra that if my girl looks like a cat in heat, then I've done something wrong, lol.
OMG Yes! I spend most of my posing time doing the exact same thing! I understand "sexy sells" but it sure would be nice to get pose sets that look like how people move naturally!
I do understand this. Such poses look so uncomfortable... And, to be honest, I find it easier to start from scratch than remove the foolishness.
'Cat on Heat'.. So appropriate.
Regards,
Richard.
There is one particular vendor I just do not buy from for that exact reason..'cat in heat' describes it perfectly!
I'm using the bones to pose as well. I did try powerpose when I started using daz, but I didn't really like it. Maybe I should give it a try again sometime.
But bone posing works fine for me and I can't really imagine a better and more precise way using a mouse.
Most poses take about 15 minutes to create from scratch, and interactive pose where two characters are interacting, usually 10-15 minutes more. Everything except the fingers, which can take a while to get right. Always keep limits ON. Limits exist for a reason, and lead to more accurate poses within the parameter limits physiology of the human body. I find rotating the bones directly works well.
lorraineopua, MelissaGT
A while back someone mentioned the "male gaze" in passing in these forums. It piqued my curiosity, prompting me to look into the analog: the "female gaze". So here's what I found, which I thought put the matter succinctly and eloquently:
Essentially, the female gaze is the way that women are portrayed through the eyes of a woman instead of a man. Through the eyes of a woman, women are seen as people with feelings and intelligence. The focus isn't on what the eye can see but on what the heart can feel.
The female gaze looks to evoke emotions and feelings, focusing on touch, interactions, and atmosphere instead of action and just sexuality. The female gaze looks to balance the man and the woman, making them equals in all areas.
Through the female gaze, the characters are seen as human and relatable, showing both strength and vulnerability.
Source - https://www.sociomix.com/diaries/lifestyle/the-female-gaze-simply-what-is-it/1607449923
What do you think?
Cheers!
The hands alone usually take me longer than that - good job I'm not doing it for a living.
The general feeling about posing, then, is the best 'tool' for good posing is a bit more skill & practice. Yeah, I can see that.
Regards,
Richard
You didn't address me specifially but I think it's mostly gibberish, someone trying to get noticed.
I think that most women aren't all that different to men when it comes to "the gaze." A long winded article to say men are shallow and women are not. It's just not like that for most people. Either sex. Look at Hollywood actors, they're almost all attractive, and there is the yearly "sexiest man alive" awards. Look at romance novels written for women, always with the attractive buff dude on the cover.
I'm not buying it.
Thanks for providing those, Richardandtracy! I mainly use Genesis 3, but I'll see if I can't pose convert them. Sounds like you have a good attention to detail, even after the number of pose packs I've purchased I could still use more "real life" type poses, regular people standing, standing & talking, sitting, etc.
I honestly think they have a point. The article isn't so much about looks...it's about the way the characters are portrayed in terms of posing and emoting. Even when it comes to romance and love and sex. I'll go further. I write smut. You guys don't know that. But, yeah, I have fanfiction up on Archive of Own that I've written (it's for Star Wars: The Old Republic...an MMO). Rated E for Explicit. But my smut can in no way be compared to what you would picture as porn. There's emotions and feelings and yes, a sense of equality between the characters amid the boom-shaka-laka. Nobody is objectified, even when they are being submissive. My artwork also has that same feeling, even though there's no nudity.
And I don't think the article is accusing anybody of being shallow. It's just trying to describe the way (in general) that men view things differently than women.
I think this is a legimate point of view and help explain the obvious differences in some artistic choices.
It the same difference between porn and erotica. potentially the same and yet, totally different. And that difference is subtle to some, and clearly evident to others.
My own personal rule of thumb is that I can find porn boring or emotionless, which I never find with erotica. But to each their own...
Yeah, I would describe what I write as falling under erotica over porn...even verging on purple prose from time to time, lol.
Going back to my early days of posing, I found I spent way to much time for two reasons: just using the sliders in the parameters tab and fear of "screwing" up the scene (i.e. having no confidence in my skill of using DAZ Studio). What really helped speed up my work was using the rotating tool and the sliders in the parameters tab. But the main thing was getting over my fear of it not looking "good enough." I am a perfectionist, bordering on OCD. Finding a mixture of PowerPosing, using the Parameters Tab, Rotating Tool, or finding a similar looking pose and altering it will help speed up your workflow.
Haha, OCD is an accurate descriptor. Hands are the worst. You don't even want to know how much time was spent on hands here -
Or here...
...or even here...which was just a simple promo for the top -
Hands are the bane of my existence, lol.
As always, @MelissaGT, your work is divine!
As odd as it sounds, I find hands the easiest (not bragging, I swear). I found them hard to work with before I started using the rotating tool. Fingers can be troublesome when getting a curved handle or oddly shaped cup to look like it's being held. Thumbs are extremely annoying, though...down with thumbs! Screw their evolutionary advantage they gave us! The thing that is the bane of my existence...expressions! I will not be booking a trip to Uncanny Valley, thank you. Blank supermodel expressions for everyone!
Thank you! And yes, when it comes to hands, thumbs can definitely take a hike! OMG those stupid opposable thumbs!
For me, posing was the thing that attracted me to this software in the first place. Being able to call up a 3D character to my screen was one thing but software that allowed me to pose that character allowed me to make picture stories which has held my interest for more than 15 years. Yet, as important as posing is to me, I started with the parameter sliders and have never shifted to anything else. I don't use PowerPose or Puppeteer or IK chains - I wouldn't know how, to be honest. Strictly sliders. But I am now so used to the sliders that I don't spend anything like an hour, or even 30 minutes, on a pose - even from scratch. Maybe 5 minutes? 10 at most.
There are pose packs in the store(s) that I avoid and they have been highlighted in this thread: exaggerted "sexy" poses are among those that I just ignore. But I do like to buy packs of natural poses - at least to use as a starting point which is probably a big time saver. The other thing that troubles me is that some commercial poses do not seem to follow the rules of when to use the Root and when to use the Hip in setting up a pose (especially rotations which can have a disasterous effect on animations if done wrong). Downloading freebie poses has never been worthwhile for me so becoming adept (and quick) with the sliders has served me well.
That's why I was careful to say most and not word or imply all. I'm sure that's how it is with some women (and way less, but a few guys). With how the entertainment industry is I have my doubts about the majority.