iRay Shadows - How change settings?

LK

Hello.
Help me please with iRay shadows.

In the 3Delight possible to change type and style of the shadows. Deep, soft, directional, without shadows and ect.
In the iRay I don't see no one setting for shadows. Any light makes a solid opaque black shadow, like from powerful photo-headlamp.

I tried to change the type of light from IES files, but in this version, these files only change the shape of the light spot.

Maybe in the beta-4.8 need to looking for the shadow setting in another place, not in the settings of the light?

Richard Haseltine

Iray is simulating the way real light works so, at least using the usual Photoreal setting, there's no way to do the stuff you can do in 3Delight. If you want light in the shadows you need either a light shining there or light bouncing there from the environment; if you want soft shadows you need to make the light larger than a point (there are geometry settings for the Iray lights that let you give them a size and shape or you can use the Emissive shader preset on a surface) .

LK

In the 3D Max, when I use Photometric lights, I can change a properties of shadows. Also IES files can make soft shadows. But in the DAZ I can use only soft spotlights from IES, but anyway I see shadows like from headlamp. It's not a full photoreal light, and just cutted version.

Well. Now tell me how possible to make photoreal ambient light inside the interior? Or you wanna tell that in the real life we can see only solid black opaque shadows ?

If you didn't know, lights has a geometry. Sphere geometry makes an ambient soft shadows, like we can see If use HDRI light. More diameter of sphere - more soft shadows. In the DAZ I can set sphere geometry for light, but anyway I'll be have directional shadows like from cylinder geometry. I hope It's just a bug and will be fixed.

Peter Wade

If 3D Max lets you change the properties of the shadows then you are using a biased renderer. Whether the light is photometric or not is not the point, it is the renderer that gives you the shadow options.

IRay is an unbiased renderer meaning it does not use the tricks and shortcuts that biased renderers use to speed things up. You don't need to create ambient light with IRay, it works out how the light bounces around in an interior scene and softens the shadows. This is why it can take a long time to render some scenes.

Richard Haseltine

That isn't what I see - though a spot light won't turn into a point light by applying a sphere shape, as far as I know. I haven't played much with IES lights but they should give soft shadows as dictated by the source shape.

Ambient light is bounce light - you need either an HDR to light the scene or actual walls to bounce the light around, you can't fake it in Iray - the whole point of Iray with Photoreal mode on is that it's an unbiased renderer.

LK

To Peter Wade:
Look to the 3D Max before :)
On this screen you'll find all about I told.
I use just one photometric light. I set Sphere geometry for light and for shadows. Sphere geometry makes soft shadows. More sphere - more soft.
In the DAZ we have just a little part of the iRay settings and only half of them are works right :)

Peter Wade

sl_klever said:

To Peter Wade:
Look to the 3D Max before :)
On this screen you'll find all about I told.
I use just one photometric light. I set Sphere geometry for light and for shadows. Sphere geometry makes soft shadows. More sphere - more soft.
In the DAZ we have just a little part of the iRay settings and only half of them are works right :)

I don't know anything about 3D Max but it looks as if you have told it to create a 30 centimetre sphere that emits light. The size of the light compared to the size of the objects determines how soft the shadows are, it's simple geometry, and reflections from the walls will soften the shadows more.

If you create a 30 centimetre light emitting sphere in Daz Studio you should get the same effect. I haven't explored IRay enough to find out if you can create light emitting objects (you certainly can using Reality/Lux Render) but Daz Studio with IRay is still a beta version.

LK

Look better :) This setting called "Shape/Area Shadows". It's a setting of the Photometric light, and not of the mesh light :) And no need to tell nothing If you don't believe your eyes when you look on my screen.
Photometric lights in the FULL version of iRay have a settings for shadows. Possible to set any shadow from directional to deep soft..

If you'll set sphere geometry for light in the DAZ you'll be have only black directional shadow and no more. I hope that we'll be have a normal iRay in the DAZ, but right now in the beta-4.8 works right only HDRI light.

Chuckdozer

Absolutely you can create light emitting objects in Iray. Simply select any surface and apply the "Emissive" shader, then the light settings will show up in the surfaces settings.

As for shadows on/off, softness, and all that are concerned, there are no non-shadow casting lights in Iray. If you are using a spotlight with geometry settings other than "Point" then you are in fact using a geometric mesh light. The point setting will give you sharp shadows... the other geometry settings will vary the softness and shape of the shadows based on shape and size, distance from object, amount of light bounced around the scene, etc.

LK

On my screen I showed how works real Photometric light in the full version of iRay.
Show me a screen with your render in the DAZ where possible to see a soft shadows from one light without HDRI. Show and teach me how you made It. All other words It's just a words.

jpb06t

sl_klever said:

On my screen I showed how works real Photometric light in the full version of iRay.
Show me a screen with your render in the DAZ where possible to see a soft shadows from one light without HDRI. Show and teach me how you made It. All other words It's just a words.

If it works even remotely like Cycles, shadows sharpness is function of the size of the emitting object (smaller -> sharper) which is the physically correct effect.

LK

People, please, no need to write nothing here about you think how to possible to do! Just show me how to do, If you can to do It :)
I showed a screen from Max. One light, soft shadows. Try to show me the same from DAZ iRay :)

Chuckdozer

Please be patient while I take some time away from my work and prepare some help for you ;)

CypherFOX

Greetings,

sl_klever said:

People, please, no need to write nothing here about you think how to possible to do! Just show me how to do, If you can to do It :)
I showed a screen from Max. One light, soft shadows. Try to show me the same from DAZ iRay :)

Do your own work; if you have someone else show you, you won't learn how to do it.

Create a sphere in DAZ Studio, make it light emitting, put a character or primitive in a half-box and move the light emitting sphere around, and do renders with it.

You'll see, and you'll learn. Having someone spoon-feed you the answer won't help you learn anything.

You see sharp black shadows because you're using a near-infinitely small source of light. Use an actually shaped and sized node as a source of light and you'll see soft shadows.

Do the work yourself, and you'll see it.

-- Morgan

Chuckdozer

Cypherfox said:

Greetings,

sl_klever said:

People, please, no need to write nothing here about you think how to possible to do! Just show me how to do, If you can to do It :)
I showed a screen from Max. One light, soft shadows. Try to show me the same from DAZ iRay :)

Do your own work; if you have someone else show you, you won't learn how to do it.

Create a sphere in DAZ Studio, make it light emitting, put a character or primitive in a half-box and move the light emitting sphere around, and do renders with it.

You'll see, and you'll learn. Having someone spoon-feed you the answer won't help you learn anything.

You see sharp black shadows because you're using a near-infinitely small source of light. Use an actually shaped and sized node as a source of light and you'll see soft shadows.

Do the work yourself, and you'll see it.

-- Morgan

That was unnecessary.... and a bit rude considering I've already offered to help. There's no need for people to pull their hair out trying to make something work... we're all learning Iray at this time, and if we can help one another out we should. These forums are here to for members to ask for and receive help. Be a part of the community and offer help if you can, please.

Richard Haseltine

If Chuckdozer will forgive me, this is a simple scene (six scaled cubes, with a cone and a sphere placed in the "room" they make) lit by a single point light at front left as you look at the scene set to a 30 cm sphere. You can see light bouncing into the shadows, and the shadows having softer edges (especially on the cone, which is nearest to the light).

Chuckdozer

You are forgiven ;) After all, you are helping :)

LK

I think I found a way.
Linear Point Light, setting of light "Cylinder"
Just a simple test render

Chuckdozer

These two images were both rendered with the same spotlight. The only difference is the geometry setting of the light. Size of the light geometry in each image is 200h x 200w. "Double Sided" and "Render emitter" are both on.
In the darker image, the light geometry is "Sphere". In the brighter image the geometry is "Disc". While both geometries are the same size, the Disc has less surface area than the Sphere, but the light is distributed through the scene very differently. The softness of the shadows is dictated by a combination of the size and shape of the light geometry, the distance of the light from the subject, and the brightness of the light... as well as how much geometry surrounds the subject to bounce light back.

Chuckdozer

These two images are lit with the same spotlight as the last two images. In the brighter image the geometry is "Rectangle". If you compare it to the image rendered with "Disc" geometry, you'll notice that the shadows are a tad bit softer. Again, more light area equals softer shadows.
The darker image here has the light geometry set to "Cylinder".

Chuckdozer

This is the same spotlight, a bit closer, geometry set to "Rectangle" and size set to 400 x 400.

Chuckdozer

Again, same spotlight as last render, light geometry "Rectangle", size 300 x 300.

Chuckdozer

For this one I kept the same spotlight, but moved it to point at the unseen wall on the left side of the image. I set up some square and rectangular columns of different colors surrounding the scene for the light to bounce around on. The only light falling on my figure is being bounced back. Light geometry is "Rectangle", "double sided" is OFF, and render emitter is OFF. For all of these images "Architectural Sampling" is ON. Size of the light geometry for this image was only 3 x 3.

Chuckdozer

Hope this helps you out a bit with spotlights! Remember that light geometry size, shape, and distance are all factors in the softness of your shadows. If your spotlight winds up in the scene view but you don't wan't to see the actual light source, be sure to turn "render emitter" off. The light will still illuminate the scene and will still be seen in reflections.

LK

Thank you so :) It's a real manual :)

Chuckdozer

You are more than welcome! I must get a bit of work done now, but I may be able to post a few more things later ;)

Marshian

Is there a way to have light geometry in the scene without the shape rendering? I'm looking for soft supplimental light, my prop is already a light emitter but if I turn it up high enough to light the scene the sublte textures get burned out.

thanks you's!

 

Fishtales

To get the lighting right you also have to use the camera settings in Tone Mapping.

Slow the shutter speed.

Lower the F/stop

or raise the ISO.

or ballance all three for the light used.

Pleblu

I wrote this to explain how to setup shadows in Iray like you do photography. It might be helpful. 

ravenzvideo

Pleblu said:

I wrote this to explain how to setup shadows in Iray like you do photography. It might be helpful. 

Indeed, very helpful.  Thank you 

takezo_3001

Now if only we could have shadows that cast atmospheric colors such as the blue tinge from a clear sunny sky, as they are not black!