Hidden Head Region Pose Controls Issue Persists with 4.8

Mythmaker

I have had this issue with DS 4.7. Parameter: Pose Controls refuse to show Genesis Head region pose control, including

- DS default head region pose controls, expressions, and animation type morphs (Viseme)
- DS Genesis Expression products
- 3rd Party Expression products bought in Daz3D store

The only head region pose controls that show is the single one I custom made.

I had to turn on Show Hidden Properties to get them to show. The half-visible dials move, but the labels and handles remain greyed out, really hard to see and select. In any case this behavior is not right. I thought upgrading to 4.8 (just did it today) will solve this, well it didn't.

This issue did not exist before I upgraded to 4.7 from 4.5.1.6.

This issue may or may not be impacting these head region pose controls also NOT showing up in Carrara 8.5 Pro release OR the latest 8.5 Pro Beta, which I have also just installed.

In any case, it is frustrating and disappointing. I bought these expression products to use for character animation in Carrara, now they only half show up in Daz Studio, and won't even show up in Carrara. Without direct access to visemes, my Carrara Mimic Pro purchase is now made pointless.

Need to confirm if this is a bug before I file another ticket.

JimmyC_2009

You are just selecting the entire Genesis character, select the 'Head' in the Scene pane or the Parameters pane, and then you don't need Show Hidden Properties ticked to see them.

With the Head selected, I can see Expressions, Visemes and lots of other categories like Mouth, Eyes etc.etc. and I don't have Show Hidden Properties ticked.

Mythmaker

JimmyC_2009 said:

You are just selecting the entire Genesis character, select the 'Head' in the Scene pane.

It works! Yay! Even inside Carrara, also by selecting the head bone!

It had probably worked all along. Didn't realize region select highlight in DS isn't the same as bone select highlight. Sheesh...lol

Thanks! So so so glad to have this sorted out.

Bejaymac

With Poser a figure is a collection of props, each prop has it's own bone and it's own morph deltas (targetGeom dials in a CR2), the bones are held together with the parent child settings, while the props are held together with the bone welds, so with a Poser figure it's normal to have to select the head prop to gain access to the morph dials.

TriAx figures are nothing like Poser figures, they are a single mesh (doesn't even need mesh groups) with a separate skeleton, so when you select the head all you have selected is the bone as there is no mesh there, so there really shouldn't be any dials there.

The problem is that most of this lot (points at the community) are clueless to the differences and treat the figures the same way, so to stop any bellyaching DAZ added dummy dials to the bones to keep the masses happy.

So in a nutshell your dial is actually done the way the system wants it done, the others are a bloat-ware compromise.

Mythmaker

Bejaymac said:

With Poser a figure is a collection of props, each prop has it's own bone and it's own morph deltas (targetGeom dials in a CR2), the bones are held together with the parent child settings, while the props are held together with the bone welds, so with a Poser figure it's normal to have to select the head prop to gain access to the morph dials.

TriAx figures are nothing like Poser figures, they are a single mesh (doesn't even need mesh groups) with a separate skeleton, so when you select the head all you have selected is the bone as there is no mesh there, so there really shouldn't be any dials there.

The problem is that most of this lot (points at the community) are clueless to the differences and treat the figures the same way, so to stop any bellyaching DAZ added dummy dials to the bones to keep the masses happy.

So in a nutshell your dial is actually done the way the system wants it done, the others are a bloat-ware compromise.

Oh my goodness so that's the historical hyper-context. 3 years down this road I'm still wrapping my head around this unconventional convention maze.

Poser skeletal convention is even odder - as in further from the mainstream - from the sound of it.

I actually find region/ surface selection and the highlight GUI aspect really intuitive. That should have done it to make dials manifest.

It seems there are plenty of tools that does the same thing in Daz3D rigging space. I guess whether that's pro/con depends on which era you got on board this ship. I've been so overwhelmed and am always surprised when things turn out to be far far simpler than they WERE PRESENTED.

When I jumped on board DS 3 years ago, I soon made a point to steer clear of hisotrical baggage like Poser. Didn't work out that way lol. Oh the CMS joy. And then I ended up in Carrara space thinking I could start cleaner, well, imagine my surprise lol.

Right now, more or less figured out TriAx workflow, but am still working out the difference between legacy and parametric skeletal structure, and the implication of using them in DS and Carrara.

I really hope to finish climbing these unnecessarily convoluted naming/labeling/UI convention hurdles and start making art soon. Getting there, getting there...

WendyLuvsCatz

Related bit off topic
An interesting thing is if you tick the right click option in the transfer utility for morphs, the facial ones end up on actor for the beard or other facial item you are trying to fit not the head so to use mimic in carrara on it you need to move the morphs to the beards head in DAZ studio first by editing parameters and moving before saving as support asset.
You then can use the same dmc and scene sound on both and it will match.
Daz studio of course you can just enable autofollow on the figure before loading it.

Mythmaker

wendy♥catz said:

Related bit off topic
An interesting thing is if you tick the right click option in the transfer utility for morphs, the facial ones end up on actor for the beard or other facial item you are trying to fit not the head, so to use mimic in carrara on it you need to move the morphs to the beards head in DAZ studio first by editing parameters and moving before saving as support asset.
You then can use the same dmc and scene sound on both and it will match.
Daz studio of course you can just enable autofollow on the figure before loading it.

Hi Wendy, you mean if I have one of those beard products (I don't actually), they would end up on Morphs:Actors section instead of pose controls?

I haven't gone as far as dealing with add-on beards yet. Am only at the 'should I parent short hair to Genesis or make Genesis short hair a comform/fit-to prop' stage... Will get to the beards soon... I only learnt recently that Genesis's jaw bones don't always move to existing morphs or pose controls. Kind of make the 'head' pose controls meaningless isn't it. May as well put all head pose controls under Actor>Head category anyway?

One thing you're probably familiar with: Genesis visemes for Carrara mimic plugin. Now that I finally see the visemes in Carrara Parameters, next thing is, how do I assign a new mouth morph, say a custom "Oooo" to the appropriate Mimic phoneme slot?

After much googling I found an ancient Daz3D tut that says Mimic has lots more phonemes that we users can match the visemes/ mouth morphs to. Should that step be done in DS or Carrara?

Appreciate it if you could clear that up...

WendyLuvsCatz

loading the genesis dmc should do the work for you, it uses NLA clips for the morphs and yes you can make your own too but beards can be a bit funny in carrara unless of course you use dynamic hair.
most people pose them manually for still renders but for animation you need it automated, legacy beards for M4 etc I used morphing clothes some genesis ones do work, I think MEC4D's does she has viseme morphs most others do not out the box at least not mustached ones, it can be as simple as creating a dmc using the open mouth morph for visemes that use an open mouth depends on the beard and how much face it covers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4ar_V_D3mw legacy beards
in iclone what I had to dohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLcPFtJl2ww https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdUT_zVPCeE
carrara is easier you can actually just edit the default dmc file even in notepad or as I said create NLA clips and assign them
sometimes a duf scene from DAZ studio using autofollow even works

Mythmaker

wendy♥catz said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4ar_V_D3mw legacy beards
in iclone what I had to dohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLcPFtJl2ww https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdUT_zVPCeE

The fibermesh one is a nice demo of fibermesh beard in iclone.

carrara is easier you can actually just edit the default dmc file even in notepad or as I said create NLA clips and assign them
sometimes a duf scene from DAZ studio using autofollow even works

Thanks for the pointers. Okay... got the gist... It's the 'create NLA clips and assign them to the dmc' bit I cannot find info on. I have no problem making new morphs or NLA clips/ poses in Carrara, but can't find a 'save dmc' or 'save to dmc'... Then again sometimes I do miss the trees for the forest!

WendyLuvsCatz

In the mimic plugin is a list of phonemes/visemes clicking them should give options
I am on tablet my pc bogged down rendering a Howie Farkes scene in Octane so cannot look.
3Dage has a lot of info on it if you try google search of forum

Mythmaker

wendy♥catz said:

In the mimic plugin is a list of phonemes/visemes clicking them should give options

Just saw the long list of phoneme starting IY. The phoneme panel bit was collapsed.

Thanks again!