HD Poke-through

marble

Is there a way to selectively turn off HD or turn down the resolution to base just for the areas of skin under clothing? HD is great for detail but clothing that looks like it fits nicely in the viewport has horrendous poke-through when rendered. Applying push modifiers, etc., does not help if it is dForce because of the cling effect during simulation. Increasing the collision distance for dForce is not much help either.

I usually end up reverting the whole figure to base which makes a nonsense of buying HD mophs.

nemesis10

I am an enormous fan of https://www.daz3d.com/sy-clothing-fit-helper-genesis-8-female.... I just adjust its all layers setting to 3% or 4%  and maybe remove the values from hair in less than 15 or 20 seconds.

marble

nemesis10 said:

I am an enormous fan of https://www.daz3d.com/sy-clothing-fit-helper-genesis-8-female.... I just adjust its all layers setting to 3% or 4%  and maybe remove the values from hair in less than 15 or 20 seconds.

 

Looking at the promo page, it looks like it was designed for conforming clothing.  Does it work with dForce?

On second thoughts, it would probably be best to drape the dForce garment then apply the SY fixes, right?

 

nemesis10

Yep, I would apply the dForce to the garment and then adjust for pokethrough.   There is a small stable of products that I use pretty much everytime:  Eye Twinkle and  Sy-clothing-helper are two of them.

 

marble

nemesis10 said:

Yep, I would apply the dForce to the garment and then adjust for pokethrough.   There is a small stable of products that I use pretty much everytime:  Eye Twinkle and  Sy-clothing-helper are two of them.

 

I'm still not sure that it would help though. The problem is not with the morph but with the HD detail. Things like slight muscle bulges or veins that stand proud of the skin surface. I doubt that those can be transferred to the clothing.

nemesis10

Ah, you want the veins to show as if the cloth was spandex!  Nope, this product would gently raise the cloths away from the skin so that pokethrough wouldn't happen but the exposed skin would still have the prominent veins.  I am pretty sure you can't transfer the hd attributes without those special proprietary tools and they are apparently not a one click sort of solution.  I thought i would include one image where I used the product because thigh muscles were poking through the shorts; I can't use dForce (my computer is too old) but the effect of the product is both subtle and natural looking:

marble

nemesis10 said:

Ah, you want the veins to show as if the cloth was spandex!  Nope, this product would gently raise the cloths away from the skin so that pokethrough wouldn't happen but the exposed skin would still have the prominent veins.

 

No, I don't want to transfer the prominent veins to the cloth but I do want the cloth to cover them (and the muscles) instead of having them poke through. Yet I do want the cloth to fit snug against the skin so I'm probably asking for the impossible (seeing as 3D cloth mesh generally has no thickness). That's why I asked initially where it is possible to turn off HD for certain surfaces. 

Paintbox

Maybe another option is mesh grabber. You can either move vertices on the char or clothing.

marble

Paintbox said:

Maybe another option is mesh grabber. You can either move vertices on the char or clothing.

Yeah, but no. Not for me anyway. I bought that and returned it because I find it easier to send to Blender and use the sculpting tools there.

Platnumk

Have you tried using a Push Modifier.  Click HERE for a tutorial

marble

Platnumk said:

Have you tried using a Push Modifier.  Click HERE for a tutorial

 

Yes, I mentioned that in my original post. The trouble is that the fit doesn't look right when you use things like push modifiers in conjunction with dForce. At least it doesn't look right to me once I have messed around for a long time trying to balance the amount needed. Again, the problem is HD. These morphs are localised and don't show in the viewport so only when you render can you see the poke through and it is exactly where the HD morphs are applied. In the viewport, the fit looks near perfect but if I start applying push modifers the fit soon looks far from perfect. However, it is difficult to judge the amount of push when you can't see the poke through in the viewport.

Platnumk

marble said:

Platnumk said:

Have you tried using a Push Modifier.  Click HERE for a tutorial

 

Yes, I mentioned that in my original post. The trouble is that the fit doesn't look right when you use things like push modifiers in conjunction with dForce. At least it doesn't look right to me once I have messed around for a long time trying to balance the amount needed. Again, the problem is HD. These morphs are localised and don't show in the viewport so only when you render can you see the poke through and it is exactly where the HD morphs are applied. In the viewport, the fit looks near perfect but if I start applying push modifers the fit soon looks far from perfect. However, it is difficult to judge the amount of push when you can't see the poke through in the viewport.

If you switch to Wire Shaded Mode you can normally see where the poke through is happening.

Another 2 things to try which sometimes help is turning off the smoothing modifier & setting the base resalution of the cloth to the same as the characters mesh 

marble

Platnumk said:

marble said:

Platnumk said:

Have you tried using a Push Modifier.  Click HERE for a tutorial

 

Yes, I mentioned that in my original post. The trouble is that the fit doesn't look right when you use things like push modifiers in conjunction with dForce. At least it doesn't look right to me once I have messed around for a long time trying to balance the amount needed. Again, the problem is HD. These morphs are localised and don't show in the viewport so only when you render can you see the poke through and it is exactly where the HD morphs are applied. In the viewport, the fit looks near perfect but if I start applying push modifers the fit soon looks far from perfect. However, it is difficult to judge the amount of push when you can't see the poke through in the viewport.

If you switch to Wire Shaded Mode you can normally see where the poke through is happening.

Another 2 things to try which sometimes help is turning off the smoothing modifier & setting the base resalution of the cloth to the same as the characters mesh 

I haven't tried upping the mesh resolution of the cloth. I'll check that out later. As for wireframe view, I don't really see how that would help because the HD morphs just don't show in the viewport so I don't think they will show in wireframe either but I'll also check that when I get back to my PC. I have tried playing with smoothing options and turning it off just makes all the other poke through areas show too.

Until DAZ figures out how to calculate collisions (particularly with HD) I can't see a solution to this.

Platnumk

marble said:

Platnumk said:

marble said:

Platnumk said:

Have you tried using a Push Modifier.  Click HERE for a tutorial

 

Yes, I mentioned that in my original post. The trouble is that the fit doesn't look right when you use things like push modifiers in conjunction with dForce. At least it doesn't look right to me once I have messed around for a long time trying to balance the amount needed. Again, the problem is HD. These morphs are localised and don't show in the viewport so only when you render can you see the poke through and it is exactly where the HD morphs are applied. In the viewport, the fit looks near perfect but if I start applying push modifers the fit soon looks far from perfect. However, it is difficult to judge the amount of push when you can't see the poke through in the viewport.

If you switch to Wire Shaded Mode you can normally see where the poke through is happening.

Another 2 things to try which sometimes help is turning off the smoothing modifier & setting the base resalution of the cloth to the same as the characters mesh 

I haven't tried upping the mesh resolution of the cloth. I'll check that out later. As for wireframe view, I don't really see how that would help because the HD morphs just don't show in the viewport so I don't think they will show in wireframe either but I'll also check that when I get back to my PC. I have tried playing with smoothing options and turning it off just makes all the other poke through areas show too.

Until DAZ figures out how to calculate collisions (particularly with HD) I can't see a solution to this.

If you are using dforce clothing then there is also another thing that might work.

 create a timeline of 40 frames

at frame 0 have a base character in the base pose. Next move to frame 20 and apply your character morphs, HD morphs & pose.  in the somualtions settings set the "Start From Base Pose" to OFF,  Set the simulation type from "Current Frame" to "Animated (custom play range)".  Sim for the full 40 frames.

What this will do is drape the clothing as your character morphs, by doing it this way it often eliminates poke through & gives the cloth a more natural drape.

marble

Platnumk said:

marble said:

Platnumk said:

marble said:

Platnumk said:

Have you tried using a Push Modifier.  Click HERE for a tutorial

 

Yes, I mentioned that in my original post. The trouble is that the fit doesn't look right when you use things like push modifiers in conjunction with dForce. At least it doesn't look right to me once I have messed around for a long time trying to balance the amount needed. Again, the problem is HD. These morphs are localised and don't show in the viewport so only when you render can you see the poke through and it is exactly where the HD morphs are applied. In the viewport, the fit looks near perfect but if I start applying push modifers the fit soon looks far from perfect. However, it is difficult to judge the amount of push when you can't see the poke through in the viewport.

If you switch to Wire Shaded Mode you can normally see where the poke through is happening.

Another 2 things to try which sometimes help is turning off the smoothing modifier & setting the base resalution of the cloth to the same as the characters mesh 

I haven't tried upping the mesh resolution of the cloth. I'll check that out later. As for wireframe view, I don't really see how that would help because the HD morphs just don't show in the viewport so I don't think they will show in wireframe either but I'll also check that when I get back to my PC. I have tried playing with smoothing options and turning it off just makes all the other poke through areas show too.

Until DAZ figures out how to calculate collisions (particularly with HD) I can't see a solution to this.

If you are using dforce clothing then there is also another thing that might work.

 create a timeline of 40 frames

at frame 0 have a base character in the base pose. Next move to frame 20 and apply your character morphs, HD morphs & pose.  in the somualtions settings set the "Start From Base Pose" to OFF,  Set the simulation type from "Current Frame" to "Animated (custom play range)".  Sim for the full 40 frames.

What this will do is drape the clothing as your character morphs, by doing it this way it often eliminates poke through & gives the cloth a more natural drape.

Again I don't think so because HD morphs are invisible to the cloth. If not, it should work fine with dForce starting from Zero pose but it doesn't. I know how to use the animation timeline for dForce although I avoid it when I can because the timeline can't be cleared and that means that if I want to use that scene as a basis for a character animation, I have already got an animation on the timeline which I can't remove. Anyhow, that's another discussion which I've had in other threads here. If DAZ would allow us to save a single frame from the timeline as a scene or scene subset it would solve a lot of problems.

Richard Haseltine

marble said:

Platnumk said:

marble said:

Platnumk said:

marble said:

Platnumk said:

Have you tried using a Push Modifier.  Click HERE for a tutorial

 

Yes, I mentioned that in my original post. The trouble is that the fit doesn't look right when you use things like push modifiers in conjunction with dForce. At least it doesn't look right to me once I have messed around for a long time trying to balance the amount needed. Again, the problem is HD. These morphs are localised and don't show in the viewport so only when you render can you see the poke through and it is exactly where the HD morphs are applied. In the viewport, the fit looks near perfect but if I start applying push modifers the fit soon looks far from perfect. However, it is difficult to judge the amount of push when you can't see the poke through in the viewport.

If you switch to Wire Shaded Mode you can normally see where the poke through is happening.

Another 2 things to try which sometimes help is turning off the smoothing modifier & setting the base resalution of the cloth to the same as the characters mesh 

I haven't tried upping the mesh resolution of the cloth. I'll check that out later. As for wireframe view, I don't really see how that would help because the HD morphs just don't show in the viewport so I don't think they will show in wireframe either but I'll also check that when I get back to my PC. I have tried playing with smoothing options and turning it off just makes all the other poke through areas show too.

Until DAZ figures out how to calculate collisions (particularly with HD) I can't see a solution to this.

If you are using dforce clothing then there is also another thing that might work.

 create a timeline of 40 frames

at frame 0 have a base character in the base pose. Next move to frame 20 and apply your character morphs, HD morphs & pose.  in the somualtions settings set the "Start From Base Pose" to OFF,  Set the simulation type from "Current Frame" to "Animated (custom play range)".  Sim for the full 40 frames.

What this will do is drape the clothing as your character morphs, by doing it this way it often eliminates poke through & gives the cloth a more natural drape.

Again I don't think so because HD morphs are invisible to the cloth. If not, it should work fine with dForce starting from Zero pose but it doesn't. I know how to use the animation timeline for dForce although I avoid it when I can because the timeline can't be cleared and that means that if I want to use that scene as a basis for a character animation, I have already got an animation on the timeline which I can't remove. Anyhow, that's another discussion which I've had in other threads here. If DAZ would allow us to save a single frame from the timeline as a scene or scene subset it would solve a lot of problems.

Simulation Settings has a property, in the Collision group, to set the Collision Mesh Resolution to Viewport instead of Base

marble

Richard Haseltine said:

marble said:

Platnumk said:

marble said:

Platnumk said:

marble said:

Platnumk said:

Have you tried using a Push Modifier.  Click HERE for a tutorial

 

Yes, I mentioned that in my original post. The trouble is that the fit doesn't look right when you use things like push modifiers in conjunction with dForce. At least it doesn't look right to me once I have messed around for a long time trying to balance the amount needed. Again, the problem is HD. These morphs are localised and don't show in the viewport so only when you render can you see the poke through and it is exactly where the HD morphs are applied. In the viewport, the fit looks near perfect but if I start applying push modifers the fit soon looks far from perfect. However, it is difficult to judge the amount of push when you can't see the poke through in the viewport.

If you switch to Wire Shaded Mode you can normally see where the poke through is happening.

Another 2 things to try which sometimes help is turning off the smoothing modifier & setting the base resalution of the cloth to the same as the characters mesh 

I haven't tried upping the mesh resolution of the cloth. I'll check that out later. As for wireframe view, I don't really see how that would help because the HD morphs just don't show in the viewport so I don't think they will show in wireframe either but I'll also check that when I get back to my PC. I have tried playing with smoothing options and turning it off just makes all the other poke through areas show too.

Until DAZ figures out how to calculate collisions (particularly with HD) I can't see a solution to this.

If you are using dforce clothing then there is also another thing that might work.

 create a timeline of 40 frames

at frame 0 have a base character in the base pose. Next move to frame 20 and apply your character morphs, HD morphs & pose.  in the somualtions settings set the "Start From Base Pose" to OFF,  Set the simulation type from "Current Frame" to "Animated (custom play range)".  Sim for the full 40 frames.

What this will do is drape the clothing as your character morphs, by doing it this way it often eliminates poke through & gives the cloth a more natural drape.

Again I don't think so because HD morphs are invisible to the cloth. If not, it should work fine with dForce starting from Zero pose but it doesn't. I know how to use the animation timeline for dForce although I avoid it when I can because the timeline can't be cleared and that means that if I want to use that scene as a basis for a character animation, I have already got an animation on the timeline which I can't remove. Anyhow, that's another discussion which I've had in other threads here. If DAZ would allow us to save a single frame from the timeline as a scene or scene subset it would solve a lot of problems.

Simulation Settings has a property, in the Collision group, to set the Collision Mesh Resolution to Viewport instead of Base

But if the Viewport does not see HD, how will that help?

Richard Haseltine

marble said:

Richard Haseltine said:

marble said:

Platnumk said:

marble said:

Platnumk said:

marble said:

Platnumk said:

Have you tried using a Push Modifier.  Click HERE for a tutorial

 

Yes, I mentioned that in my original post. The trouble is that the fit doesn't look right when you use things like push modifiers in conjunction with dForce. At least it doesn't look right to me once I have messed around for a long time trying to balance the amount needed. Again, the problem is HD. These morphs are localised and don't show in the viewport so only when you render can you see the poke through and it is exactly where the HD morphs are applied. In the viewport, the fit looks near perfect but if I start applying push modifers the fit soon looks far from perfect. However, it is difficult to judge the amount of push when you can't see the poke through in the viewport.

If you switch to Wire Shaded Mode you can normally see where the poke through is happening.

Another 2 things to try which sometimes help is turning off the smoothing modifier & setting the base resalution of the cloth to the same as the characters mesh 

I haven't tried upping the mesh resolution of the cloth. I'll check that out later. As for wireframe view, I don't really see how that would help because the HD morphs just don't show in the viewport so I don't think they will show in wireframe either but I'll also check that when I get back to my PC. I have tried playing with smoothing options and turning it off just makes all the other poke through areas show too.

Until DAZ figures out how to calculate collisions (particularly with HD) I can't see a solution to this.

If you are using dforce clothing then there is also another thing that might work.

 create a timeline of 40 frames

at frame 0 have a base character in the base pose. Next move to frame 20 and apply your character morphs, HD morphs & pose.  in the somualtions settings set the "Start From Base Pose" to OFF,  Set the simulation type from "Current Frame" to "Animated (custom play range)".  Sim for the full 40 frames.

What this will do is drape the clothing as your character morphs, by doing it this way it often eliminates poke through & gives the cloth a more natural drape.

Again I don't think so because HD morphs are invisible to the cloth. If not, it should work fine with dForce starting from Zero pose but it doesn't. I know how to use the animation timeline for dForce although I avoid it when I can because the timeline can't be cleared and that means that if I want to use that scene as a basis for a character animation, I have already got an animation on the timeline which I can't remove. Anyhow, that's another discussion which I've had in other threads here. If DAZ would allow us to save a single frame from the timeline as a scene or scene subset it would solve a lot of problems.

Simulation Settings has a property, in the Collision group, to set the Collision Mesh Resolution to Viewport instead of Base

But if the Viewport does not see HD, how will that help?

The Viewport does see HD, though not usually to the same degree as renders (controlled by the two Divisions sliders in the Parameters pane under Mesh Resolution).

marble

nemesis10 said:

I am an enormous fan of https://www.daz3d.com/sy-clothing-fit-helper-genesis-8-female.... I just adjust its all layers setting to 3% or 4%  and maybe remove the values from hair in less than 15 or 20 seconds.

 

OK - The Clothing Fit Helper was on sale recently so I bought it. I also bought this:

https://www.daz3d.com/sy-clothing-morpher-for-genesis-8-female

So now I'm not sure when it is better to use one or the other.

nemesis10

marble said:

nemesis10 said:

I am an enormous fan of https://www.daz3d.com/sy-clothing-fit-helper-genesis-8-female.... I just adjust its all layers setting to 3% or 4%  and maybe remove the values from hair in less than 15 or 20 seconds.

 

OK - The Clothing Fit Helper was on sale recently so I bought it. I also bought this:

https://www.daz3d.com/sy-clothing-morpher-for-genesis-8-female

So now I'm not sure when it is better to use one or the other.

Morpher is for making clothes... When  i use use fit helper, i normally use a value of 3 or 4...

marble

nemesis10 said:

marble said:

nemesis10 said:

I am an enormous fan of https://www.daz3d.com/sy-clothing-fit-helper-genesis-8-female.... I just adjust its all layers setting to 3% or 4%  and maybe remove the values from hair in less than 15 or 20 seconds.

 

OK - The Clothing Fit Helper was on sale recently so I bought it. I also bought this:

https://www.daz3d.com/sy-clothing-morpher-for-genesis-8-female

So now I'm not sure when it is better to use one or the other.

Morpher is for making clothes... When  i use use fit helper, i normally use a value of 3 or 4...

 

So my first attempt at using the Fit Helper has been a failure. It seems that it does not like the G8 having geografts (and almost all my adult female characters have geografts). As I dial in the Chest Fixer, for example, the geografts I use (Meipe's Headlights) expand out (or in) dramatically. This makes the product a non-starter if that can't be overcome but I have no idea where to start. 

@Sickleyield doesn't do commercial threads for her products so I can't ask her. Maybe she will spot this thread.

PerttiA

marble said:

So my first attempt at using the Fit Helper has been a failure. It seems that it does not like the G8 having geografts (and almost all my adult female characters have geografts). As I dial in the Chest Fixer, for example, the geografts I use (Meipe's Headlights) expand out (or in) dramatically. This makes the product a non-starter if that can't be overcome but I have no idea where to start. 

@Sickleyield doesn't do commercial threads for her products so I can't ask her. Maybe she will spot this thread.

DS sees the geografts as wearable items, so if the fix morph is meant to effect clothing, it will effect the graft too.

Most of the fitting/fixing morphs that I have seen are actually made by adding the morph to the base figure twice, the first one with positive effect and autofollow, the second one with negative effect and without autofollow (hidden dial) - This way, one doesn't see any change on the base figure but the fitted items are effected.

marble

PerttiA said:

marble said:

So my first attempt at using the Fit Helper has been a failure. It seems that it does not like the G8 having geografts (and almost all my adult female characters have geografts). As I dial in the Chest Fixer, for example, the geografts I use (Meipe's Headlights) expand out (or in) dramatically. This makes the product a non-starter if that can't be overcome but I have no idea where to start. 

@Sickleyield doesn't do commercial threads for her products so I can't ask her. Maybe she will spot this thread.

DS sees the geografts as wearable items, so if the fix morph is meant to effect clothing, it will effect the graft too.

Most of the fitting/fixing morphs that I have seen are actually made by adding the morph to the base figure twice, the first one with positive effect and autofollow, the second one with negative effect and without autofollow (hidden dial) - This way, one doesn't see any change on the base figure but the fitted items are effected.

If the highlighted statement is the case then I have no use for these @Sickleyield fix products and I'll just return them. Pity, I was hopeful that they might be a solution to all the poke-through and badly fitting woes I have with clothing on morphed characters. Even dForce doesn't help in many cases - especially those horrible distortions we see with larger women around the breast area where dForce does a very poor job of correcting or smoothing those distortions.

nemesis10

Anything such as a geograft that has been affected can have the fitter effects dialed back to zero in the Parameter tab.

marble

nemesis10 said:

Anything such as a geograft that has been affected can have the fitter effects dialed back to zero in the Parameter tab.

I must have missed the parameters you are talking about. I assumed the parameters would be those that the PDF manual instructs us to use - namely those on G8F such as the Clothing Fit Helper Chest Fixer. I didn't see any relevant parameters in the geograft list but too late for me now as I returned the products. This is the kind of thing that gets answered in the PA Commercial Products threads but @Sickleyield has stated that she does not discuss her products there.

PerttiA

marble said:

nemesis10 said:

Anything such as a geograft that has been affected can have the fitter effects dialed back to zero in the Parameter tab.

I must have missed the parameters you are talking about. I assumed the parameters would be those that the PDF manual instructs us to use - namely those on G8F such as the Clothing Fit Helper Chest Fixer. I didn't see any relevant parameters in the geograft list but too late for me now as I returned the products. This is the kind of thing that gets answered in the PA Commercial Products threads but @Sickleyield has stated that she does not discuss her products there.

When an item has been fitted to the figure, all the active morphs of the figure will be transferred to the item with the same dial names and values - This is the idea behind autofitting and having clothing follow the morphs of the figure.

The transfered dials are set hidden on the fitted item, but with "Show Hidden Parameters", one can see the dials and dial them back, essentially cancelling the effect of the morph on the fitted item. 

marble

PerttiA said:

marble said:

nemesis10 said:

Anything such as a geograft that has been affected can have the fitter effects dialed back to zero in the Parameter tab.

I must have missed the parameters you are talking about. I assumed the parameters would be those that the PDF manual instructs us to use - namely those on G8F such as the Clothing Fit Helper Chest Fixer. I didn't see any relevant parameters in the geograft list but too late for me now as I returned the products. This is the kind of thing that gets answered in the PA Commercial Products threads but @Sickleyield has stated that she does not discuss her products there.

When an item has been fitted to the figure, all the active morphs of the figure will be transferred to the item with the same dial names and values - This is the idea behind autofitting and having clothing follow the morphs of the figure.

The transfered dials are set hidden on the fitted item, but with "Show Hidden Parameters", one can see the dials and dial them back, essentially cancelling the effect of the morph on the fitted item. 

It's all a little academic now as I returned the product but I did poke around looking at Hidden Parameters to see if I could find them - I didn't. I looked at the G8F, the Geograft parameters and the clothing. Only G8F had any parameters which related to the clothing fix helpers and those parameters were not hidden.

PerttiA

marble said:

PerttiA said:

marble said:

nemesis10 said:

Anything such as a geograft that has been affected can have the fitter effects dialed back to zero in the Parameter tab.

I must have missed the parameters you are talking about. I assumed the parameters would be those that the PDF manual instructs us to use - namely those on G8F such as the Clothing Fit Helper Chest Fixer. I didn't see any relevant parameters in the geograft list but too late for me now as I returned the products. This is the kind of thing that gets answered in the PA Commercial Products threads but @Sickleyield has stated that she does not discuss her products there.

When an item has been fitted to the figure, all the active morphs of the figure will be transferred to the item with the same dial names and values - This is the idea behind autofitting and having clothing follow the morphs of the figure.

The transfered dials are set hidden on the fitted item, but with "Show Hidden Parameters", one can see the dials and dial them back, essentially cancelling the effect of the morph on the fitted item. 

It's all a little academic now as I returned the product but I did poke around looking at Hidden Parameters to see if I could find them - I didn't. I looked at the G8F, the Geograft parameters and the clothing. Only G8F had any parameters which related to the clothing fix helpers and those parameters were not hidden.

"Currently used" shows all the dials that have non-default value dialed in.

Did you enable "Show Hidden Parameters" or were you just looking under the heading "Hidden"?

marble

PerttiA said:

marble said:

PerttiA said:

marble said:

nemesis10 said:

Anything such as a geograft that has been affected can have the fitter effects dialed back to zero in the Parameter tab.

I must have missed the parameters you are talking about. I assumed the parameters would be those that the PDF manual instructs us to use - namely those on G8F such as the Clothing Fit Helper Chest Fixer. I didn't see any relevant parameters in the geograft list but too late for me now as I returned the products. This is the kind of thing that gets answered in the PA Commercial Products threads but @Sickleyield has stated that she does not discuss her products there.

When an item has been fitted to the figure, all the active morphs of the figure will be transferred to the item with the same dial names and values - This is the idea behind autofitting and having clothing follow the morphs of the figure.

The transfered dials are set hidden on the fitted item, but with "Show Hidden Parameters", one can see the dials and dial them back, essentially cancelling the effect of the morph on the fitted item. 

It's all a little academic now as I returned the product but I did poke around looking at Hidden Parameters to see if I could find them - I didn't. I looked at the G8F, the Geograft parameters and the clothing. Only G8F had any parameters which related to the clothing fix helpers and those parameters were not hidden.

"Currently used" shows all the dials that have non-default value dialed in.

Did you enable "Show Hidden Parameters" or were you just looking under the heading "Hidden"?

As I recall, I enabled Show Hidden and scrolled down the list(s). Starting to wish I had not been so hasty at retruning it - if only to follow up on your suggestions.