UVmapping visible seams program/solution
So, I'm working on my comic and hit a snag. A good number of my self-made props are too small to really see things like seams, such as swords, but now I'm having to make sets like a large dome with two halls. I've looked but there's no model in the store to just make that for me and I can't always fall back on that I know.
However, when UV mapping a large dome that characters will be moving about inside of, I have to realize- there will ALWAYS be visible seams, and thus evident pinching of textures on them. I look at the Daz models and see visible seams everywhere, but no pinching. No one bothers to hide the seams on the back of a genesis model for instance, rather the seems are on the arms, but I see no pinching, just normal armpits, and shoulders. Every tutorial I find tells me to hide seams but somehow that's not necessary for people here. What program or technique is everyone using to work on seams?
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Did a little research- thoughts on armorpaint?
Not sure i understand since you say you see seams in every model here, which I don't. What is your meaning of seams? Seams usually refers to misalogned textures or bad UVmapping.
A seam, as I understand it, is where two UV maps meet. A visible seam is when two UV maps meet in a place that would be visible on render. I guess "pinching" is when there is a visible distortion along a seam. I have yet to see a model on this site with visible pinching let's say. How does everyone avoid that?
Always do the texturing of images for the model, to be running OVER the barriers by at least oh say, 4 or 5 pixels, maybe a bit more. Avoid putting extreme details along the seam lines {hard to match with other side unless one is using a 3D paint program}.
I'm learning Armorpaint and- I think I'm alighting on a number of points anyone doing image textures needs to realize.
First, no texture software allows a user to simply dump a texture on it and not show seems. The models DAZ uses likely receive custom paint jobs applied directly to the 3d models, like how Armorpaint a number of other programs work. Go ahead and apply any texture in Studio to a genesis model and you'll see the seams on the arms right away- because those nice seamless textures the models come with were designed on them, they didn't have a texture image dropped onto the UVs.
Second- don't UNDERTHINK your models. I was designing a training scene for my sci-fi story and wanted a featureless half sphere as the room with a nice metal texture that would- be a heck of a thing to make. But even then- a room with no lights? A room with no panels? A room with no decorations or sections? What kind of a room would this even be? Dark and boring that's what. On second thought there's no reason a realistic sci-fi training room shouldn't be full of features that can hide seams. In any stage of creation- really think about what it is you're trying to make. Hiding seams is a work saver and good models will often be complex enough to do so.
If your models are too simple for hidden seams to be a thing (like you're making a baseball bat) unfortunately, some manual painting will just have to be involved and- well if that doesn't scare you off doing it- then just do it! There will NEVER be a program that can allow you to just drop a texture on a model and ignore seams. It doesn't work that way because the computer doesn't know what direction the texture is going in without you telling it and UVs are how you tell it.
Yes, for the models sold by Daz3D, the textures would be applied to the UVs - even if they were painted there. The models "themselves" are not being painted on. There are some programs which can paint on models that do not have uvmaps, D/S has some procedural shaders which can be applied on such models too. However all the models in the store are UVmapped. [supposed to be, glitches happen]. Certainly all the figures are -- templates for texturing are available in our Product Libraries and/or one can have them created using any one of a number of utilities or modelers.
One solid paint chip ... instant no seams showing ... apply detailing within the seams ;-) {just remember the buffer zone}
Seams are placed by the modeler when unfolding the UVmaps. btw - if you come across a model with terrible seams, in D/S you can make a new UVset for it. Put the seams where you want them using the modeler of your choice. Same rules as for morphing apply for the new UVset to be accepted by D/S.
eta: 3DCoat Textura {and of course 3DCoat} allow one to paint over the model as well as on their templates, best of both worlds :-)
Yes, avoiding seams between different UV maps on a model is a must, but attention to color is just as important; especially on character figures. There's quite a few of them sold on this site and others that have a color mismatch issue where above the hip the skin has more of a yellowish tone while below it there's more of a redish tone.
When I say "paint on the model" I'm referring to what is done in programs like Armorpaint. An interface is set up where you can paint directly onto the model and the program interprets your painting onto the UV map for you. Far as I know, there is no such thing as texturing without UVs, but I could be wrong.
As to Studio painting on objects without UVs-far as I've seen it's the same as with any other program. If you're doing VERY basic functions like applying a single color, you can do that without a UV map. If, however, you're applying an actual texture- nope, you need UVs.
Yes, apparently there is such a thing as painting on a model itself with no UVs. I don't remember all the particulars because 99.99% of the time, I want UVs. That ability happened a few years ago.
And yes, painting directly on the UVmapped model is great. There are/were some which didn't do a good job, and others [paid and free] which do very nicely. Some handle seams better than others do too. So if paying $$$, it's always a good idea to run a free trial first.
So far as I've seen, Armorpaint is a good one, just be aware of tutorials that give a false impression. If you're using the paintbrush or decal controls (and I'm hoping but haven't found a stamp tool) you can paint as if there are no seams at all. If you drop a full texture image onto the model- you're just dropping a picture of a texture onto your UV map and you'll get a rather disgusting result.
If you want to see the result you'll get without even downloading/purchasing armorpaint, you can, as ALL programs will do this. Go into DAZ, load in a sphere prop and drop a texture on it. From the side it looks great, from the top- well, you see where the seams are:
Armor paint will do no different.
Okay, looked ahead a little in my training and- yes, there IS a stamp tool in armorpaint. For reference, a "stamp tool" means a brush that is basically painting an image onto your picture instead of a series of lines- like this:
https://thehungryjpeg.com/product/3742245-26-acrylic-photoshop-stamp-brushes
In armor paint and various programs, these are actually called "alpha channel brushes" and they work about the same way only on a 3d object, so in essence, yes, you can "paint with a texture" you just have to learn the program a little.
I took a look at their page and watched a couple of tutorials the other day, about Armorpaint and I'll agree. Looks to be a decent enough program ... Blender users will likely love it as it allegedly works similarly to Blender. One can even bring in .blend files.
Quixel Mixer is another program that one can use to make textures and also paint their own models. It is also free BUT it does take up a lot of space on the computer [for all those textures] and that's why over here it is no longer on my laptop. If you have the space to spare might be worth a try too. Use Atlas in D/S to get 'all' the uvmaps onto 'one' square. To use Atlas, use collapsed uvsets [re Genesis figures] and no fancy Iray, etc. shaders. There are some strings attached with use of additional models, etc. from the company as they go along also with their game. However as I recall, one can certainly make their own textures, use what comes with the program and paint their own models.
eta: One can also acquire some free and/or usually inexpensive brushes [different types] over at ArtStation. Several of the vendors also sell the same products at Cubebrush or Gumroad.
In some cases a projection mode other than UV might help. Here is an explanation of projection modes of various software.
https://learn.foundry.com/modo/901/content/help/pages/shading_lighting/shader_items/projection_type_samples.html
https://docs.quixel.com/mixer/1/en/topic/placement
And here a video about triplanar projection in Substance Painter:
This solution needs some control maps to work. Those can be created in Substance Painter but that is not explained in the video. I don't know Armorpaint, so I can't say if triplanar projection is available there as well.
Armor paint has a number of projection alternatives to UV I've learned since making my earlier comment- just be aware that predicting the result isn't always possible and it's often better to use UV as it's more directly controllable.
As to triplanar mapping in Armor paint, I see no such feature so- well it's free so that might just be part of the deal. Though- apparently Blender has some ability to do this too:
Apparently in blender it's call Box Mapping- figures they have their own term.
In any case, like I said, UV allows more direct control and even if you use Box Mapping you'll likely find yourself at a disadvantage if you can't UV map. Remember, any mapping procedural can only present you with A result, not the result you necessarily want.
Okay so- correction. Recent iterations of Armorpaint DO have a triplanar mode and, trying it out, I'm not wild about it. Couldn't tell you if it works like it's supposed to, but I can see seams with it on at least a cube just as easy and it does all kinds of crazy things on UV spheres so- not sure what to tell you.
The 3DCoat programs have all the types of UVmap options available for painting on. While not free, Textura is certainly decently priced.
I'm gonna pull a Kanye here
Okay ya'll, Imma let you finnish but-
Remember those procedural textures you can make in Blender3d without a single UV map that can be infinitely scaled, were seamless and can make all kinds of cool textures? Remember how they were only available in Blender so you forgot about them? Well those puppies were beefed up to be hella better and- they bake. That's right, just do a simple UV unwrap and no hand painting or seam matching required- texture baked right onto the mesh and ready to be saved as an image file so your blender models can be used in DAZ with their textures intact.