New Graphics Card (dumb) Question- Dell XPS 8700/ GTX 1050
McGyver
Posts: 7,066
This is more of a technical hardware question...
I came across a GTX 1050 for $170 (after rebate) at a nearby computer store, and I want to put it in my Dell XPS 8700... from what I've read, it seems like it should work/fit...
Edited To Clarify: The main issue isn't about compatibility with DAZ Studio, it's whether the card and the computer are a match... Sorry if I didn't phrase that correctly earlier.
There are a few questions I have before I do this, since both devices are a bit old at this point, it's hard to find info on the compatibility of this exact combination...
My computer's Specs:
Dell XPS 8700
i7-4790 CPU @3.60GHz (4th Generation Intel (Launch Date Q2 2014), 4 Cores, 8M Cache , up to 4.0 GHz)
GTX 745 Graphics Card (GeForce GTX 745/PCIe / SSE2)-(4GB DDR 3)
16 GB RAM (32 GB RAM Max Total) - (EDITED TO ADD: It's currently maxed out at the full 32 GB)
RAM Type: DDR3L PC3L-12800 1600MHz Non-ECC DIMM .
PSU: 460W
Manufacter date: 2015
OS: Windows 7 Professional
The Graphics Card:
MSI NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 TI Overclocked
Dual-Fan 4GB GDDR5 PCIe 3.0 .
Recommend Power Supply 300W
Full specs: https://www.msi.com/Graphics-Card/geforce-gtx-1050-ti-4gt-oc/Specification
Questions:
1- Does this seem like a match?... one thing I'm concerned with is any power connectors and the PCIe 3.0 designation... I think the computer is PCIe capable but probably just plain PCI (so like 1.0?), so from what I've read, but about a different setup, it's backwards compatible... is that correct? Is there going to be any slowdown or bottleneck because of this?
2- Drivers... I'm running windows 7... Don't judge me, I have Photoshop CS2 installed, apparently from before Adobe killed off their servers and if I update to Windows 10 and I lose CS2, I'm kinda screwed... realistically that's the only reason I still have Win 7, because I only found out about CS2 servers being killed off after it was way, way too late... So will any necessary driver updates even work with Windows 7 or will it require an upgrade?
3- Power... from what I figured out from various sources the card seems compatible with my computer's power source... does that seem correct?
4- Anything I need to know?... I've only changed two graphics cards ever (and it wasn't for me, for a friend) and it was completely straight forward (recommended by Geek Squad for the specific computer)... there were no issues, both the computer and the card were relatively new, but now I'm doing it for myself, it's been a long while (memory gets stupid) and this isn't exactly a new computer.
Thanks in advance for any help, advice, suggestions or magical spell you can provide.
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Comments
Well, the card currently in the computer is a pitsy GTX 745, (it may as well be be made by Playskool), so anything above that is better... I'm not worried about compatibility with DS, as much as compatibility with the computer... like at least with the GTX 1050, I found two discussions where the OP confirmed the card fits in the computer, with the GTX 1060, I can find no such information and I'm not even sure the PSU can handle it and lastly the cheapest one I see that's not used and on Ebay or from Joey's Windowless Van Back Alley Discount, is almost $400... if I could get a GTX 1060 for what it should be going for I'd be happy with that (if it fit)... but the GTX 1050 is sufficient and very close to the proper price, plus shipping is free because it's at a computer store that's close by.
Why?
I have a Zotac 1050ti from my old machine, and the box says it's compaitble with Win 7, 8 and 10. IDK if that answers any of your questions. Lol.
Nvidia dropped support for Win7, and 4.16 required a driver level higher than the last Win7 supported one.
1 - Your PC has PCI Express x16 - https://dl.dell.com/manuals/all-products/esuprt_desktop/esuprt_xps_desktop/xps-8700_reference guide_en-us.pdf
2 - Nvidia's latest Win7 drivers:
Security update (64 bit only and I'm guessing this was due to the shenanigans earlier on this year at Nvidia): https://www.nvidia.co.uk/Download/driverResults.aspx/189518/en-uk ;
Game-ready drivers (much older but 32 bit compatible): https://www.nvidia.co.uk/Download/driverResults.aspx/132853/en-uk
3 - Your PSU is fine - https://www.dell.com/community/XPS-Desktops/XPS-8700-graphics-card-upgrade-2/td-p/6196607
4 - Read the link above for caveats about installing - you may need a cable extension for existing peripherals and many threads on the Dell forum mention a BIOS upgrade. All discussions can be found here and the BIOS updates can be found on the Dell website as well - https://www.dell.com/community/forums/searchpage/tab/message?filter=location&q=8700 1050&noSynonym=false&location=forum-board:General-desktops&collapse_discussion=true
All of the big PC manufacturers have large forums/communities, HP, Dell, Samsung, et.al., and it doesn't take long to search them. Everything you need is readily available from the Win 7 drivers to the BIOS updates should you need them.
Nope, the last W7 driver is still good for the latest versions of DS
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/7497716/#Comment_7497716
My Win 7 Pro box works nicely with 4.20.x.y and my 980 TI, 1080 TI, and 3060.
From my very humble opinion, it's a waste of money and carbon cost.
One of the most important thing for Iray, is the memory embedded on the graphic card : 4 Gb is very limiting : with 2 G8 people plus some clothes and props, your renders will fall back to CPU.
My computer is equipped with two 2080 RTX (8 Gb x 2) connected with a NvLink, it's okay with one gen8. With two, it depends, and whenever I venture to Howie Farkes Ultra scenery, it's CPU only for rendering.
When I used Eon Software Vue infinite, I had a small render farm of 5 computers. It took a few days to render a decent image.
As for Iray instant display, in DazStudio, it's still too laggy to be really usable unless you invest in a recent professional graphic card.
As a last word, the PCIe is about to change relatively soon.
Sometimes I regret the old days when Poser was the main program for our hobby.... I'ts really too bad it's slowly disappearing.
Keep your computer as it is and spare money for a new rig : when all those Chinese/Ukrainian horrors fades away.
A 460W Power Supply may not be enough for todays GPUs. Plus golem841 makes a good point about 4GBVRAM not being enough. Save your money for a good system upgrade, McGyver.
For that computer, the GTX-1050 would probably give you a little more oomph than what you currently have. And considering the other limitations of the computer, it might be adequate until you upgrade the whole system.
Better cards might help, however, I wouldn't put a V12 engine into a Volkswagen.
But with the GTX-1050 don't expect more than one IRay rendered figure to wear clothes or have hair or pose among modeled trees and grass.
Although 3Delight rendering wouldn't be affected.
Also, viewport manipulations might be faster or more fluid with the faster graphics card.
I just wanted to say thanks to everyone who responded, and to TimberWolf for the links, those were helpful.
I did end up buying the GTX 1050 on Thursday, I didn't get to install it until yesterday, it was pretty easy... it only took a few minutes, it popped right in with a little bit of effort.
It was tight though... it would have been nice if one or two cables inside the case were like 12mm (1/2") longer, but a little careful rearranging and they seem to have adequate clearance.
I think if it were 6mm (1/4") longer it wouldn't have fit.
I've been testing out some old scenes in DAZ Studio and so far most of them seem at least 50% faster, less if they have emissive props, but all of those emissive materials were made by me, so they probably aren't set up right or are optimal or they are old (from back when DS first got iRay).
Other programs and render engines seem a lot faster now... Filter Forge seems very fast now... a couple of filters that would really drag seem to be around 70% faster... maybe... I also maxed out the RAM a few weeks ago and haven't really done much 3D work, so maybe I'm just delusional.
I do intend to get a newer computer in the next year or so, but for now this should suffice and make rendering models I created a little less time consuming.
Thanks again for all the suggestions and help everyone!
...my system is still W7 Pro and I was recently running a 4.16 beta,release recently moved to the latest 4.20 beta and had no issues with either. In fact both have run very smoothly without even so much as a BSOD. The main components of the system are as follows. :
CPU Intel Xeon X5660 6 core 2.9Hz
Memory: 24 GB GSkill Rpjaws DDR3 1333 MHz
Motherboard: ASUS P6T X58. with 2 x PCIE 2.0 x16 expansion slots.
GPU: EVGA Nvidia Titan-X 12 GB (Maxwell, one generation older than the 1050)
PSU; EVGA 850GS 850w 80 Gold
I am still several steps ahead of the driver requirement for Iray in the 4.20 beta.
Purchased a 3060 from EVGA last fall tried to put it in but it was a bit tricky getting it into the PCIe slot. even though it is much smaller than my Titan-X. When I got it seated and attached the power cables, but all I could get is a s standard VGA signal on only one of my two displays. (the CPU does not have integrated graphics and without a GPU card I get no signal to the displays). My conclusion is the BIOS of the MB is too old and either cannot support the card (odd as it has no touble with the Titan which ahs teh same VRAM) or the card is incompatible with PCIe 2.0 (given the tricky fit). So back into the box it went until I can afford to upgrade (with W11 Pro, OEM [DVD] looking at a total of 1,140$). The upgrade will go into the same case that houses the current system.
Did you update the NVidia drivers? Your old Titan drivers probably will not support a newer GEForce card.
...I double checked on the Nvidia site and it shows the one I'm already using with the Titan-X as the same Game Ready driver to download for the 3060 (473.62). This is why it most likely is the MB BIOS which is a decade old. There have been no new updates for the P6T BIOS since I purchased the motherboard in 2012.(it basically came with the latest version available).
According to what I have been reading on the Nvdia boards, it may also be that is it just not compatible with the PCIe 2.0 slots as others who have tried it experienced similar issues. the Bloomfiled generation CPUs do not handle PCIe lane support, that is provided by the X58 chipset which is under control of the BIOS.
...yeah as I mentioned the P6T I have was originally released in 2008 and the last BIOS update was in 2009. I purchased mine after that so likely it already had the updated BIOS.
For myself it will require almost a total rebuild as replacing the MB means also replacing the memory and CPU (as well as CPU cooler).
Oh yeah, and Windows7 which I will be sad to leave behind as it's been so dependable, stable, and "invisible" (no update interruptions or ridiculous "fluff" I don't need) for the last decade.
The new board has PCIE4.0 slots, supports TPM 2.0 has UEFI and secure boot capability, as well as an M2 drive slot (which will be for the boot drive in the upgrade) and memory support up to 128 GB (I'll be going with 64).
I could go the route like LG does, keeping the old machine intact, and building a new one but that means a new case, new PSU and new drives all which seriously increases the cost above what I am already looking at. Most of the "less expensive" cases I've seen don't have the fan capacity or room for the CPU cooler that I need (Be Quiet Dark Rock) to keep the Ryzen 5900X nice and cool (not into closed loop liquid cooling as the radiator takes away at least two fan slots, usually the top ones in most cases).
Eventually the Titan will likely join other older cards on the obsolete list for Iray (Maxwell has been on Nvidia's "depreciated" status since 2020).so it makes the upgrade a bit more .imperative.
It makes me sad that you just paid money for a GTX 1050... in June of 2022.
I started a thread awhile back for paying it forward.... I have GTX 1060 6gb card that I will gladly give away once my RTX card shows up.
I have a Dell XPS 8700 and have a GTX 1050 Ti card. Power supply is enough for it. If I recall correctly the graphics card I have is a GTX 1050 Ti mini. Dell cases are cramped so you can't get bigger cards in the slot due to having limited space available in the housing. If the GTX 1050 isn't a mini, I am pretty sure it will not physically fit.
Card is better than was originally in this computer but it still isn't great.
Yeah, think that card too big....look at card length on the one you have picked out in specifications vs this mini on Amazon. Just looking at card size not pricing or power of this version just physical size of card.
https://www.amazon.com/ZOTAC-GeForce-DisplayPort-128-bit-ZT-P10510A-10L/dp/B01MCU1ERO
Mini: card length :144.78 x 111.15 (millimeter)
the one you have linked;
Card Dimension (mm) 215 x 112 x 38 mm
Thanks, it did fit... it was tight without unplugging cables and one cable is pretty close, about 6 mm clearance... I probably have about 12 mm more room before it would interfere with anything, if I recall correctly.
It seems like most people don't really have much trouble fitting any old monster card in their case... I'm guessing most people don't have trouble fitting bigger cards because they have special cases with lots of room... it seems like the issue of whether a card will fit rarely comes up, and when it does it's usually for off the shelf computers like mine.
Fitting graphic cards in factory-built computers is like getting a sofa into a studio apartment... it might fit in the room, but now it blocks the radiator or the power outlets, or the bathroom door can't open fully... it fits up the stairs, but will it make the turn?
Measuring inside isn't all that much help because while the dimensions might represent the card's actually footprint, being able to maneuver it in place is often the more difficult part.
I mentioned previously installing a card in a friend's computer, which was not real big deal fit-wise, except for the fact that for whatever reason, it was next to impossible to get the card into the slot because of the way the connector snap detail was designed and the angle the card needed to slide into the expansion bay slot... it took up two openings and the holes in the metal flange with the video ports had raised lips which prevented the card from sliding in smoothly, so you kind of needed three hands, two human size and one capuchin monkey sized... the human hands to maneuver it and the tiny monkey hand to fit in and hold open the snap detail.
Stuff like that could make it impossible to fit a card that otherwise should fit... if that card was like 4mm longer my finger wouldn't fit in there to hold open the snap lever.
In a less awkward way this card I just bought had a similar problem, but it went in quicker because the snap wasn't so clumsily designed.
I guess computers wouldn't be so much fun if there weren't as many unforeseeable hassles.
Wisdom involves being prepared for forseen unforseeable hassles.
Either that or madness.
Thank you... unfortunately I did have to pay money because the goat I brought with me to trade for it was worth more than the card and they had no small animals to give as change... I was willing to settle for two Guinea pigs and a quail, but the guy at MicroCenter wouldn't budge on the quail.
That and they started to get pissy about the goat pooping on the floor... which apparently is a lot more slippery on linoleum than on carpeting.
The biggest reason I settled on the 1050 besides that it was cheap, was that it was the only card that I knew fit for sure (sort of)... before the crypto-conundrum price surge, I searched computer forums for lots of other cards in a $300 price range and never really could tell if they would actually fit in my computer... (then the prices shot up to ludicrous levels... that same stupid card was like $300+ last year (WTF it's technically worth $160))... I kept a list of decent cards I wanted, but they are mostly still way too expensive, or I never found out if they'd fit... searching computer forums to find out if a card fits is painful... half of them end up unresolved with people going back and forth arguing about whether the card fits or asking why the person wants that card and they should get some way more expensive card and then someone else counters that with some other idea and the rest of the hits mention the computer model and the card, but are not helpful... the other day when I found that card for $170, I did another search to see if it would fit and came across a great post somewhere where the people responding were accurate and detailed and the OP not only followed up reporting the 1050 fit, he followed up two years later to say it was still working great and he was very satisfied with it.
After reading that I was like, "I'm just buying this... it's sufficient, it probably fits, it's close to what it should go for and who knows what crisis will pop up next and GPUs will shoot up again"...
Hopefully in another year or so if inflation hasn't driven everyone into poverty, I'll buy a better computer.
That pay it forward thread you started is a really wonderful idea and a very kind and generous endeavor in these uncertain times when ordinary folks are seeing less and less chances of being able to afford luxuries like hobbies or pursuing artistic aspirations.
Madness is just easier... and you don't have to wear pants most of the time.
McGyver... check your PMs
...maybe with all this infaltion they may cut another "Stimulus" cheque?