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Exactly. I agree, too, about legibility and maybe even the bevel, but that part is beyond my expertise yet.
I'm not sure I would grab a King novel if it were a romance, though, even out of curiousity. When I read a King novel, which isn't often, I expect it to have certain elements and those elements have nothing to do with romance. I would be more inclined to buy a King romance if he were to use a pseudonym and I didn't know it was a King novel. I'm sure there are some King fans who love romances that might, though.
It really not the type style, but the after-effects that make it nearly impossible to read in thumbnail sizes. Just being realistic here. I could have pointed to plenty of mainstream- or indie-published romance novels where a more ornate title is still perfectly readable in thumb size. The killer is the use of canned layer styles that simply do not look good when downsized. There is a mechanical limitation that doesn't know the difference between horror fiction, romance fiction, espionage fiction, or non-fiction.
The Caldwell and Le Vegue books (most of them anyway) use far less complex style effects, in some cases, just a light emboss or drop shadow. Far less common is a combination of four or five styles all piled up. The type itself may be cursive or ornate, whatever works for the genre. But as these type styles are by their nature already harder to read, it's a double-whammy to then process them wih heavy layer effects. IMO, it doesn't add to the signature of the cover, and does nothing to drive sales.
With 37 years in the publishing biz, I *do* understand the needs of the cover complementing the content and expectations of the reader. But, IMO, unreadable main text at thumbnail sizes isn't a goal we should be pursuing. The true art here is to figure out how to make genre-appropriate covers that look good at full size, and at thumb size.
In reading the other comments I see some of my suggestions may have not been conveyed well. I didn't mean to change the type style, but to avoid the compounded layer styles. The mainstream examples I provided did show plain block text, but my point was to demonstrate that they did not use, nor did they need, fancy layer styles.
I have to admit that I'm new new at attempting cover art and I don't do Photoshop which I know is the industry standard in most things 2d graphic art. Since Gimp doesn't have style effects installed automatically, I don't use them yet. They are a separate script and I haven't needed to install them. (I actually had to look that up after your post so I could double check that I knew what you were talking about this time.) So, when you said styles, I probably interpreted that as having to do with the font especially when illustrated with the plain text of the covers attached. I DO think readability is a must even from a reader's standpoint. I'm sorry if my I misinterpretted your take on the style rather than the font. I also don't doubt that you know the importance of the 'cover complementing the content and expectations of the reader'.
I have been around a long time as a reader/researcher and I've seen a lot of big name publishing houses try to figure out what the romance reader likes and, in some cases, totally miss the mark with advertising campaigns using covers that in NO way could attract a romance reader. Those usually end in a flop for the publishing even when the book is an outstanding read. In most cases, I've seen those same books sell like hotcakes much later with better covers that are more in line with what the romance reader expects in a cover, usually with a different publisher.
I'm sorry if I said anything untoward as that was not my intent.
I'm just glad that I don't need to worry about typography while I learn the cover art aspect since the typography of any covers I might sell is done by someone else. I can just concentrate on the one aspect right now and figure the rest out later.
No, not at all. I think it was me not being clear what I meant about the title text. I'm all for (well-done) specialty fonts. The right type style goes a long way for setting the time and place, for example, especially in historical fiction.
Medieval gothic is one of the hardest to read fonts, but you'd have to think twice about not using it for a story set in those times. This font proved very problematic
http://www.dafont.com/deutsche-zierschrif.font
but it was perfect for a novel about intrigue and industrial espionage leading up to the final flight of the Hindenburg.
Good. I'd hate to be that newbie that blows into a group, disrupts everything and then everyone wants to see the back of. :) I have evil plans of learning everything I can from all of you so that my covers will sell well. And if not, at least they won't get put on display for the worst covers ever lists.
Definitely like this Trebuchet image, I know its in the other thread, but I think its the start of a great potential book cover. It's very vibrant.
Kathryn posted the image in the Postwork thread. http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/65522/show-us-your-postwork/p2
I saw that in the other thread. I think she did a good job on the postwork. I can totally see that on the cover of a book. Especially if used as part of the background behind a couple of her characters. It definitely has potential.
I'm in shock.
I was looking into some of Kathryn's work...her DAZ renders and book covers etc. I even checked out her book "Spirit of Dragon" on Amazon. Looks like it may be a good read. Probably going to have to buy it.
She was so very kind to me in the November newbie forum..offering advice on texturing my Star Wars X-wing model, etc. When I found this thread on book covers, I was delighted to see that she loved AD&D from way back, and was part of a group in Twitch TV.
So I went there, and found the oddest link. A Gofundme Page for Kathryn Lock's funeral.
http://www.twitch.tv/howreroll/v/27940332
I'm going to say it again.
I'm in shock.
Apparently Kathryn died of a lung embolism on Dec 4 at 12:45 pm. Her husband posted this link.
https://www.gofundme.com/qzdm46uc
If this is old news, I apologize for opening raw wounds. If it's as much of a shock to you as it was for me, I feel your pain..
With respect,
David
Oh :/ my wife who doesn't frequent here was enjoying this thread as she is at the beginning of her writng career and I am helping her with the book covers. I am glad you told us, however sad, its important to know. I didn't really know her but the generosity just in this thread was huge.
I think she would like to see this thread continue if nothing else part of the touch of her spirit on this community.
Kathryn, you'll be missed
It is true that Kathryn passed away on December 4. I tracked down her obit which I've copied and pasted from here. I spoke with her husband through texts on Kathryn's phone. While he is devestated, he seems to be holding things together. His mother flew in to help out and he has their son, so he has family with him. I'm really going to miss her. I still had things to learn from her. I'm very greatful that I was able to stop to meet her in person while I was out her way in Texas. She was an amazing woman, writer and artist.
With two funerals (Karrie and her Dad) within a short time, Ryan has posted a fund for Kathryn's funeral expenses. You can click this link to directly to her page on gofundme.
Karrie Kay Balwochus
Submitted by Edgar on Tue, 12/08/2015 - 5:13pm
Karrie Kay Balwochus, 49 died Friday, December 4th, 2015 in Beaumont. A native of Upland, California she was a longtime resident of Vidor. Karrie was a published author under the penn name “Kathryn Loch”. She was also a gifted 3-D artist and an avid miniature painter. She loved horses and enjoyed horseback riding in several categories at a young age. Karrie is survived by her loving husband, Ryan Balwochus of 24 years, a daughter, Tyann McGowen and husband Michael of Chino, CA, and a son, Duncan Balwochus of Vidor. She is also survived by a granddaughter, Finley McGowen and 2 grandsons, Merrick and Caleb McGowen, and her mother, Rosemary Anderson of Redlands, CA. Karrie was preceded in death by her father, Virgil Bramblett. A memorial service will be set at a later date. Cremation arrangements were entrusted to Memorial Funeral Home of Vidor.
Edit: Here is the link to Kathryn's (Karrie's) Memorial Wall at the funeral home if anyone wishes to post something there.
This is extremely sad news!
So sad. Her poor family. We will miss her. A lot.
Sad news. I wish her family well.
I stumbled onto this, "Book covers" thread a few months ago and have learned a lot. She will be missed.
She had such heart, always contributing to this thread to ensure those of you who wanted help with book covers had a mentor. So sorry for the huge loss for her family.
I'm shocked and saddened. This is terrible news. I think we'll all miss her enthusiasm for trying new things.
I know I will miss her. I learned a lot from her and she was such a fun person to chat with. I'm especially glad that I was able to take a detour and meet her in person while I was in TX during the Thanksgiving holiday. She was so friendly and full of life. It is hard to wrap my head around the idea that she is gone. I hope this thread continues to be a place where creative ideas and learning about creating books covers can continue. I think she would have liked that.
I was also terribly shocked and saddened by this news. I didn't get to know her as well as I would have liked but in the time I did I thought she was just a lovely, giving person. I'm going to miss her and I am so sorry that I will not get the chance to get to know her better. My condolences to her family and friends.
Very sad to hear about what happend to Kathryn! I tried to follow this thread as a silent lurker the day she started it. Hope this thread will continue!
She will be missed in the forum and espacially the ArtStudio! My condolences to her family and friends!
I just came back online and saw this terrible news. My heart goes out to her family though the holidays, it will be very hard. So sorry to see it!
I know her family was hit hard by first losing her father, and then Kathryn, too. I made a small contribution to her family's funeral fund. If anyone is thinking of making a charitable donation at this time of year, I hope you'll consider this family who could use a little help right now: https://www.gofundme.com/qzdm46uc
I've been working on this mystery cover. I've made some changes and I wanted to see what everyone thought of what I've done. I'm also rendering out an alternative camera angle with a couple of changes, but I think I like this version better than the one currently rendering. My thoughts are that if a print cover was requested then a full render with the rest of the room could be done with the part of the gold platter that is currently cut off could wrap around the spine of the book. Since this would be my first cover and I have no idea if it will even get a buyer once I've posted, I'm not sweating that detail at the moment. I'm not even sure how those print cover requests are even handled by the site I plan to upload the cover for sale.
Give me your thoughts. (The table is in plain view now, teapot and cups, not a chess set. I thought about adding that aspect, but it didn't really go with the decor or vibe that I'm trying to go with on this cover.)
I don't have to do final typography, just give suggested Title, Author Name and possible Tag line with the site's approved fonts. I'll those once I have finalized the render. I've tried to leave space at the top and bottom of the book for the Title and Author Name. I think the space to the right of the platter would be a good spot for a Tag line if it was needed.
Hm. This will work with a print book, I think. It's a nice theme, and colors which suit. There's space enough left for author name and title. But for an Ebook, it lacks some "pop" factor. On these sites with book covers for sale people see thumbnails. And in the thumbnail I can see that there is something, possibly something interesting, but I can't see, what.
So if I'm searching for a cover and yours is standing besides another cover which instantly tells me the theme, your's might not be taken into consideration.
Knittingmommy - the site you describe uploading your final cover to sounds just like one that I've sold art through occasionally. I've never been asked to do an expanded cover for print and so I wouldn't know about that process, but what I do know is that they want cover images that have never been published anywhere else and there is even a checkbox on the submission form that insists you confirm this before you upload. This is one of the reasons why I have never posted any images to this thread, despite being an avid lurker... erm, reader :) It's quite possible that you're talking about a different site or are going to alter your final render beyond recognition in some way (in which case ignore me!), but I couldn't not mention this and chance all your hard work going to waste. Good luck with your cover art :)
I'll take that into consideration. I have to admit, I'm not sure what I could do to make the thumbnail pop more, but I'll think about it for a little while and see if I can come up with something.
edit: Looking at the thumbnail, I think I need to bring the focus back to the platter in front somehow, but I like how more of the room is displayed in this version. I'll have to figure out if I can do that. DOF might also help and I didn't use that at all in this render. Thanks for taking the time to give me your thoughts, Cherpenbeck.
The site I'm thinking of trying to sell through is SelfPubBookCovers.com I've never sold to them before and I'm still going through all of the information in their faqs. I'll have to take a closer look at how they word that part. There is an faq so I can double check that as well and if it isn't specifically mentioned then I can always ask a question. This isn't the final render, though, so I think I might be okay. I know their artists use stock photos (must at least use 2) for most of their covers and even if I publish this cover on the this site, as long as I change it before uploading then I should be okay. I'm not even sure that this would be considered 'published', but I will look into that. Thanks for the heads up even if this isn't the site you used.
You might think about using some depth of field to focus attention to the table and what's on it. Without writing on the paper, I'm not sure it (and the pen) does much to add to the mystery, so it might be expendable. I think I'd also arrange the rose and gun so the gun isn't sitting on top of the stem. It looks a bit awkward. I think I'd use a bit more forced perspective of the foreground, which you can do by decreasing the focal length of the camera, then moving it closer. Not talking about fisheye, but something to draw in the attention.
While some mystery covers use a "plan-o-gram" scene -- a room or other setting with lots of varied objects, as if to provide clues -- they tend to be specialized to match the subject of the book. As a pre-made, usually the more generic the better.
Looks like we were writing at the same time I was adding my edit about DOF. Yes, I think I tend to agree with you. I'll think about the rose and the gun. I've tried a few different ways to display them, but I'm still not sure which is best although this is my favorite so far. I've tried to keep it pretty much generic and still have some of the elements that are usually in a mystery. I figure if I go into this with the idea of making a good cover, it doesn't matter if it ends up not selling. While that would be a nice end goal, my foremost goal, for this cover anywar, is to learn how to take my ideas and turn them into decent covers. I'm enjoying the process. The thumbnails seem to be the trickiest parts of making a making a cover for ebooks. At least, I'm learning and my skills are improving.
Hi again. Yes, it's the same site. I've just pulled up the submission form for another look and two of the most relevant bits of the form show that they could well be more bothered about the image being sold elsewhere, rather than it just making an appearance elsewhere...
I'm still not sure I'd want to chance it, but if I did then I would use a substantially smaller image that could not easily be resized by someone who just wanted to lift it without paying for it and add their own typography to it. I've not been told I'm paranoid before, but you never know :)