Shopping Street and GPU Vram
Ghosty12
Posts: 2,065
Got this product https://www.daz3d.com/shopping-street and it does look really good, but know you will need to do a lot of scene optimization and other tricks to render it unless you have a 3090 or better, as even my 12GB 3060 could not render this out of the box without doing a lot of optimizing..
Post edited by Ghosty12 on
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Thanks for the head up! I'm seriously considering buying this one, and I run 2x 2080 TI's so hopefully will be able to use it - albeit with a bit of optimisation like you say.
I have a question though - does it have any opening doors or usable interior spaces? Or a door that a shop interior could be built behind?
That is good to know, was about to buy it!
The mention of metallicity maps is a hint...
As far as I can tell it doesn't have any opening doors, although I have not gone exploring much..
Ahh, never knew about that thank you for the info, now to rip them out of the scene enmasse..
Check to see if the maps are doing anything - it's always possible that they are flat colour maps exported from Substance painter or the like, in which case they can be removed and replaced with a flat colour alone.
Well, 493 Texture, Bump, Normal, Roughness, Metallic, Emissive, and Opacity Maps (4096 x 4096) might be a bit hard to swallow for systems with older low vram graphic cards - like mine.
That's why Scene Optimizer is one of my most used and favourite products here
One texture image at 4096x4096px and 24bit color depth takes 48MB's of RAM when opened in whatever program, if there's 493 of them, they take 23GB's of RAM
In my experiments the process involved in IRAY rendering (at default settings) reduced the footprint down to about half, ie. about 11.5GB's of VRAM would be needed for the textures/maps alone.
In reality, all the image files probably are not 4092x4092px at 24bit, but one gets the idea.
Scene Optimizer works and gets the footprint smaller, but there is a catch... Quite often when the metallicity maps have been left there, the UV mapping is not optimized either and that is a problem Scene Optimizer cannot fix, not without one noticing a significant reduction in render quality.
An example of poor UV mapping would be an image file of 8192x8192px at 24bit, where only an area of 100x200 pixels at one of the corners is actually used anywhere in the model. The 100x200px area on it's own would use 58 kilobytes of RAM (28kb's of VRAM), but as the whole image is read into the memory, it uses 192MB's of RAM and 96MB's of VRAM...
If the surface was attached 4 maps (Bump, Normal, Roughness, Metallic, Emissive, Opacity...) at the same properties, the total RAM usage would be almost a gigabyte and half a gigabyte VRAM needed for just one surface that can even be used on quite insignificant part of the model.
Suppose you looked in a product's runtime texture folder (any product, not just this one) and saw that there was at least one large graphics file (say 8K). When that product is loaded in Studio, is there any way to do a quick search and find out which surfaces utilize that file? That would be a great time saver.
All 503 texture files are 4096 x 4096, the largest files being the roughness and normal map files.. The texture files are 8 Bit colour jpeg according to photoshop, so seems nothing special there that I know of..
Thank you, I will give that a try as the scene is a very cool one that is for sure.. The only other product I know of that is even heavier on system resources is PW's Down Town Favela Set, that product has a 613MB scene file..
Update: After running Scene Optimizer to remove the Normal and Bump maps, and removing and turning off metalicity I have managed to drop the vram usage by about 4GB.. Going to see if I can drop the texture size down to 2048 x 2048 without getting that awful glossy look on the roads..
The file size on disk and/or the file format has no bearing on how much RAM/VRAM an image will reserve when opened in a program. Any image has to be uncompressed when loaded, and the amount of RAM it will take is calculated with formula; image width (in px) x image height (in px) x colour depth (bits) / 8 / 1024^2 = Megabytes
It would be so nice if architectural PAs would take apart a Stonemason set and see how he does his maps and geometry.
Totally agree, Stonemason's products always look good and are kind on system resources..
...wondering if these designers who build these products have dual RTX Quadro or RTX A 6000s with NVLink. Crikey 23 GB just for the set before inserting characters and other items or turning on emissives.
...and this is a Daz+ item? Ort of the cart it goes as not about have my old rig to melt down or spend hours optimising..
yep, seems so many environment developers don't realize that these are usually used for background purposes for most and never take into account users actually adding figures, hair, clothing, other props, etc to the scene. Looks like this is a pass for me as I don't have the time or energy to optimize yet another environment.
...I know that there is compression when rendering in VRAM, (ratio depending on the scene) however my rig has only 22.8 GB of memory after Windows and system processes so it would immediately be exceeded even with all other software and whatever processes I can shut down beforehand.
...and again, that's just with the set itself, nothing else.
Yeah, at the competing store, there is an environment which needs a computer built in 2035 with 6TB's of RAM and one TB of VRAM, but the seller does warn that the scene is resource heavy
Are all those maps in use at once? (For instance, many of my sets come with over 100 maps but many of those are alternative textures/screens and the like, though not all at 4096x4096).
Another excellent reason why it would be so helpful if info like this (file size etc.) would be displayed on the product page, like they do at Rendo.
Not all of them as there are a few colour variants for the product, but with the the scene loaded out of the box, it really does gobble up vram very quick.. One thing is that while the product does make quite a bit of use of instances, it still does not delay the fact that the product is still very resource heavy..
Either way in the end after reducing the size of the textures to 2048 x 2048 (going any lower makes some areas look terrible), and removing the normal, roughness and bump maps and removing and turning off the metalilcity setting..
I also turned off the Sub Division Level and Render subD level to 0 via Scene Optimizer (as a lot of the elements in the product do have a SubD as well), I was able to get the vram usage to just over 6GB.. Still not ideal but better than before, though thinking about it now after I start adding in characters and so on I can see the vram usage will max out my card again..
Also trying that idea Richard had said about changing some of the textures, I ran into the problem as shown in the image below.. Selecting the back portion of road also selected another portion of road as well as some of the sidewalk and a portion of the gutter..
Is there a quality difference between GPU and CPU rendering or is it just speed?
I have a 1050 so I work in fillament and my renders are usually just CPU based, would that be a problem for this set to render at all or will it just take more time?
That is something that I could not say as don't use filament, but if using only CPU for rendering I think that then the only limiting factor, would probably be how much ram you have in your system..
As long as they are given long enough GPU and CPU should produce exactly the same result - unless the denoiser is used, which is GPU-only (but of course there are other denoising options).
Thank you for that info, really complex scenes are usually rendered overnight so that is more than enought time and I don't really notice any noise.
I think I remember a product that says it automatically hides or deletes anything not in the render window. Does anyone know what I’m talking about?
Maybe this one https://www.daz3d.com/camera-view-optimizer
Maybe this one: https://www.daz3d.com/iray-stand-kit?
Oh yes, that seems even more like it, didn't know it yet.
One thing to keep in mind when using Scene Optimizer is that you don't have to treat all textures the same way. You can deselect textures that cover a large area, like a road, and only reduce textures for smaller props. That way you'll save where it makes little difference and leave alone textures that would look bad at lower resolution.
Yes! That one. Just realized I own it but haven’t tried it yet!
Then you need to populate it with people that are shopping.
Like that Coliseum or 1920's street or Victorian ones, which are gorgeous too.