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MetaMixer and HD Add-on

ps2000ps2000 Posts: 278
in The Commons

So I was under the impression that the MetaMixer shaping presets were also part of the HD Add-ons and you wouldn't have to buy the metamixer upgrade for that character in addition.

(For example Victoria8, Freja 8, Khemsit 8 hd add-ons have the meta-mixer presets included).

But now I noticed that in hd add ons for newer characters (for example necromancer 8.1) the meta mixer presets aren't included anymore despite a meta mixer add-on being sold seperately.

Do you really have to buy that in additon to the hd add-on to use the character in meta-mixer?

Thanks

 

Comments

  • GordigGordig Posts: 10,173

    You have to buy the MetaMixer add-on to use a character in MetaMixer. The HD addon gives you additional functionality in MetaMixer, but won't give you access to the character on its own. Victoria, Freja and Khemsit are included with MetaMixer. 

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,755

    Gordig said:

    You have to buy the MetaMixer add-on to use a character in MetaMixer. The HD addon gives you additional functionality in MetaMixer, but won't give you access to the character on its own. Victoria, Freja and Khemsit are included with MetaMixer. 

    I don't believe any of those three character shapes that you listed are included with the MetaMixer Toolkit.  Where do you see that? I see that the included shapes are Holt, Nida, The Brute, and Twosret.

  • GordigGordig Posts: 10,173

    I might have been misremembering, especially seeing that Twosret is included. However, having the HD addon without the MetaMixer widget won't allow you to use the character within MetaMixer.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,755

    Gordig said:

    I might have been misremembering, especially seeing that Twosret is included. However, having the HD addon without the MetaMixer widget won't allow you to use the character within MetaMixer.

    Each MetaMixer socket A, B, and C will allow you to load both a character shape widget (The MetaMixer Addon for the character) and an HD details widget (from a character's HD morph product). The shape and the HD details don't even have to be for the same character. If you add only HD widgets, you can still use MetaMixer to mix the HD morphs, but that will not change the basic shape of the character.

    The new Daz character's HD morph product, like Necromancer, does contain the necessary morph files to apply the Necromancer HD details in MetaMixer. You can see that by looking at the file list in the product's readme. Daz is just no longer emphasizing that fact on the product page. However, to repeat, to use the Necromancer shape, the MetaMixer addon needs to be purchased. Without purchasing the Necromancer MetaMixer addon, the result would be kind of like applying the Necromancer HD morphs to the Base Genesis 8.1 Male. Also keep in mind that MetaMixer does nothing to bodies, it is just for heads and necks.

  • ps2000ps2000 Posts: 278

    So the widgets A, B, C for metamixer are no longer included in the hd add-ons for newer characters like necromancer 8.1?

    In the genesis 8 hd add-ons like celani 8 they are definitely included:

    https://www.daz3d.com/celani-8-hd-add-on

    So I think that you don't need the metamixer add-on for these characters if you have already the hd add-on

  • ps2000ps2000 Posts: 278

    Gordig said:

    I might have been misremembering, especially seeing that Twosret is included. However, having the HD addon without the MetaMixer widget won't allow you to use the character within MetaMixer.

     

    The thing is that in the older genesis 8 hd add-ons these widgets were included (provided there was a metamixer add-on for that character).

    So you didn't have to buy the metamixer add-on in addition because it was already included in the hd add-on for the character.

    They seem to have relative secretly removed that functionality from the hd add-ons for the newer 8.1 characters.

     

  • GordigGordig Posts: 10,173

    barbult said:

    Gordig said:

    I might have been misremembering, especially seeing that Twosret is included. However, having the HD addon without the MetaMixer widget won't allow you to use the character within MetaMixer.

    Each MetaMixer socket A, B, and C will allow you to load both a character shape widget (The MetaMixer Addon for the character) and an HD details widget (from a character's HD morph product). The shape and the HD details don't even have to be for the same character. If you add only HD widgets, you can still use MetaMixer to mix the HD morphs, but that will not change the basic shape of the character.

    The new Daz character's HD morph product, like Necromancer, does contain the necessary morph files to apply the Necromancer HD details in MetaMixer. You can see that by looking at the file list in the product's readme. Daz is just no longer emphasizing that fact on the product page. However, to repeat, to use the Necromancer shape, the MetaMixer addon needs to be purchased. Without purchasing the Necromancer MetaMixer addon, the result would be kind of like applying the Necromancer HD morphs to the Base Genesis 8.1 Male. Also keep in mind that MetaMixer does nothing to bodies, it is just for heads and necks.

    I've loaded MetaMixer up with three HD widgets for which I owned the SD widgets and saw literally no change while I was moving things around.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,755
    edited June 2022

    Gordig said:

    barbult said:

    Gordig said:

    I might have been misremembering, especially seeing that Twosret is included. However, having the HD addon without the MetaMixer widget won't allow you to use the character within MetaMixer.

    Each MetaMixer socket A, B, and C will allow you to load both a character shape widget (The MetaMixer Addon for the character) and an HD details widget (from a character's HD morph product). The shape and the HD details don't even have to be for the same character. If you add only HD widgets, you can still use MetaMixer to mix the HD morphs, but that will not change the basic shape of the character.

    The new Daz character's HD morph product, like Necromancer, does contain the necessary morph files to apply the Necromancer HD details in MetaMixer. You can see that by looking at the file list in the product's readme. Daz is just no longer emphasizing that fact on the product page. However, to repeat, to use the Necromancer shape, the MetaMixer addon needs to be purchased. Without purchasing the Necromancer MetaMixer addon, the result would be kind of like applying the Necromancer HD morphs to the Base Genesis 8.1 Male. Also keep in mind that MetaMixer does nothing to bodies, it is just for heads and necks.

    I've loaded MetaMixer up with three HD widgets for which I owned the SD widgets and saw literally no change while I was moving things around.

    Did you have your viewport st to a high enough subdivision (3 or 4) to see HD level of detail?\

    I can easily see the detail change in the viewport when I have the viewport subdivision set to 3 or 4. This is a screenshot of my viewport in Texture Shaded mode. I thought I did this a subdivision 4, but it was only 3.

    Screenshot 2022-06-20 MetaMixer HD Viewport SubD 4.jpg
    2182 x 1916 - 239K
    Post edited by barbult on
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,755

    ps2000 said:

    So the widgets A, B, C for metamixer are no longer included in the hd add-ons for newer characters like necromancer 8.1?

    In the genesis 8 hd add-ons like celani 8 they are definitely included:

    https://www.daz3d.com/celani-8-hd-add-on

    So I think that you don't need the metamixer add-on for these characters if you have already the hd add-on

    Did you read my message above yours?

  • ps2000ps2000 Posts: 278
    edited June 2022

    I read your message.

    But it seems I didn't get it.

    So these HD widgets which are listed for example on the celani 8 hd add-on are different widgets (for hd details) than the ones sold in the metamixer add-on for celani 8?

    And these HD widgets are still included in the hd add-ons for the newer 8.1 characters but aren't listed anymore on the shop page?

    And I wondered why the shape didn't change after adding two HD widgets. 

    It's a little bit confusing. 

    Post edited by ps2000 on
  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,512

    the idea of just buying HD heads to mix looked promising until I tried it on my hardware surprise

    I find animating a whole HD figure with SubDiv3 enabled in the viewport less demanding than using this widget

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,755

    ps2000 said:

    I read your message.

    But it seems I didn't get it.

    So these HD widgets which are listed for example on the celani 8 hd add-on are different widgets (for hd details) than the ones sold in the metamixer add-on for celani 8?

    And these HD widgets are still included in the hd add-ons for the newer 8.1 characters but aren't listed anymore on the shop page?

    And I wondered why the shape didn't change after adding two HD widgets. 

    It's a little bit confusing. 

    Yes, you got it now.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,755

    WendyLuvsCatz said:

    the idea of just buying HD heads to mix looked promising until I tried it on my hardware surprise

    I find animating a whole HD figure with SubDiv3 enabled in the viewport less demanding than using this widget

    When you use the MetaMixer, make sure you don't have any attachments like eyelashes. That slows things down to unusable speeds. I start with the Genesis 8 Dev model.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,755

    To verify that the HD MetaMixer files are included in an HD add-on, open the product's readme file (for Necromancer HD Add-on, that is http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/read_me/index/85653/start). Scroll down to Additional Details and click on the File List link. For Necromancer HD Add-on that is http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/read_me/index/85653/file_list. In there, look for MetaMixer. Here is a snippet of the Necromancer HD Add-on file list. You can see that the MetaMixer HD files are included, even though Daz didn't bother to say so on the product page. You can submit a help request and complain about that oversight, if you think it will do any good.

    Screenshot 2022-06-20 224504.jpg
    727 x 1161 - 332K
  • PerttiAPerttiA Posts: 10,024

    barbult said:

    To verify that the HD MetaMixer files are included in an HD add-on, open the product's readme file (for Necromancer HD Add-on, that is http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/read_me/index/85653/start). Scroll down to Additional Details and click on the File List link. For Necromancer HD Add-on that is http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/read_me/index/85653/file_list. In there, look for MetaMixer. Here is a snippet of the Necromancer HD Add-on file list. You can see that the MetaMixer HD files are included, even though Daz didn't bother to say so on the product page. You can submit a help request and complain about that oversight, if you think it will do any good.

    Yeah, if one looks at the file list, the Metamixer files add 117 morphs to the Genesis 8 Male Base figure and that is just for the Necromancer...
    (/data/Daz 3D/Genesis 8/Male/Morphs/Daz 3D/MetaMixer/Characters/Necromancer 8_1 HD/)

  • elusiv_3763c6f5e0elusiv_3763c6f5e0 Posts: 15

    PerttiA said:

    barbult said:

    To verify that the HD MetaMixer files are included in an HD add-on, open the product's readme file (for Necromancer HD Add-on, that is http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/read_me/index/85653/start). Scroll down to Additional Details and click on the File List link. For Necromancer HD Add-on that is http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/read_me/index/85653/file_list. In there, look for MetaMixer. Here is a snippet of the Necromancer HD Add-on file list. You can see that the MetaMixer HD files are included, even though Daz didn't bother to say so on the product page. You can submit a help request and complain about that oversight, if you think it will do any good.

    Yeah, if one looks at the file list, the Metamixer files add 117 morphs to the Genesis 8 Male Base figure and that is just for the Necromancer...
    (/data/Daz 3D/Genesis 8/Male/Morphs/Daz 3D/MetaMixer/Characters/Necromancer 8_1 HD/)

    I noticed this too, I installed the Leanne 8.1, and there was a new folder in the root of the 'Gene Pool' and a huge swathe of MetaMixer morphs. As you say, just for one character.

    I have no intentions of using MetaMixer and have purposely avoided anything associated with it - and I am trying my level best to reduce load times on my already over-burdened G8. Now I'm going to be loading thousands of unwanted and unasked-for extra morphs for a product I will never use?

    Is there any way to remove this bloat?

    If not, it appears Leanne 8.1 is the last 'base' character I buy for DS :(

     

  • MimicMollyMimicMolly Posts: 2,209
    elusiv_3763c6f5e0 said:

    PerttiA said:

    barbult said:

    To verify that the HD MetaMixer files are included in an HD add-on, open the product's readme file (for Necromancer HD Add-on, that is http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/read_me/index/85653/start). Scroll down to Additional Details and click on the File List link. For Necromancer HD Add-on that is http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/read_me/index/85653/file_list. In there, look for MetaMixer. Here is a snippet of the Necromancer HD Add-on file list. You can see that the MetaMixer HD files are included, even though Daz didn't bother to say so on the product page. You can submit a help request and complain about that oversight, if you think it will do any good.

    Yeah, if one looks at the file list, the Metamixer files add 117 morphs to the Genesis 8 Male Base figure and that is just for the Necromancer...
    (/data/Daz 3D/Genesis 8/Male/Morphs/Daz 3D/MetaMixer/Characters/Necromancer 8_1 HD/)

    I noticed this too, I installed the Leanne 8.1, and there was a new folder in the root of the 'Gene Pool' and a huge swathe of MetaMixer morphs. As you say, just for one character.

    I have no intentions of using MetaMixer and have purposely avoided anything associated with it - and I am trying my level best to reduce load times on my already over-burdened G8. Now I'm going to be loading thousands of unwanted and unasked-for extra morphs for a product I will never use?

    Is there any way to remove this bloat?

    If not, it appears Leanne 8.1 is the last 'base' character I buy for DS :(

     

    But base characters rarely come with HD included. So you can keep buying them, but not their HD Add-On. Plus, it looks like the MetaMixer folder is separate, so it can possibly be manually deleted or moved, if you never plan to use it.
  • elusiv_3763c6f5e0elusiv_3763c6f5e0 Posts: 15

    You are correct. After posting the above I did some checking and found that all that 'Meta' stuff is indeed included with the HD Addon, and can be deleted safely.

    I always refolder and manually install my content routinely, so removing this will just be another step in my process!

  • Faux2DFaux2D Posts: 452

    elusiv_3763c6f5e0 said:

    You are correct. After posting the above I did some checking and found that all that 'Meta' stuff is indeed included with the HD Addon, and can be deleted safely.

    I always refolder and manually install my content routinely, so removing this will just be another step in my process!

    The MetaMixer morphs add only a couple of seconds to the loadtime. For instance about 1000 MetaMixer morphs will add about 5 seconds to the loadtime. 

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