Daz Original Characters
supernoob
Posts: 154
Why are the Daz original characters so much more expensive than characters by other vendors?
For example:
Arcadia 8.1 would be $44.95 at full price.
Most of the time they'll have 30% off with Daz+ which would be $31.47
Echo HD 8.1 by Mousso is $18.95 (full price)
The Daz characters don't include the HD morphs, so you'll need to spend an extra $39.95 if it's full price ($27.97 with the standard 30% Daz+ discount). So that's $84.90 at full price or $59.44 for Daz+ users (and let's not forget that we pay to get that reduced rate). Sometimes the Daz characters are discounted further, both Arcadia 8.1 and her HD morphs are 58% off for me today so the price is down to $35.66 but you have have to wait and time that to get it.
Arcadia has 5 eyes colors, 4 unusual makeup options (less useful than everyday makup options IMO), 4 eyelash options, 2 SSS options.
Mousso's Echo includes an alternative head morph, additional separate HD head + body morphs, 6 eye colors, 10 everyday makeup options (+ 10 no brow versions), 8 nail options, 8 lip options (all of which are available as both PBR and Uber), 3 blushes, fibermesh brows (with density options), peach fuzz, and other options that I can't be bothered to write. Which comes to a grand total of $18.95 if you can't wait for discount. I haven't cherry-picked Echo either, this seems to be pretty standard for Mousso, admittedly she is one of the best vendors out there and always seems to be great value for top quality products.
Even with the standard 30% off with Daz+, $59.44 vs $18.95 doesn't make any sense. Am I missing something that elevates Daz original characters beyond other vendors' characters? They seem to be sorely lacking in options, they don't include things I'd expect as standard, and they're extortionate in comparison to other vendors in the store.
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Comments
I'll just link my response to the last person who asked this question: https://forum.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/7370186/#Comment_7370186
Let's separate, for clarity's sake, the terminology, the features that come with the character model, and the pricing issues.
A "Daz Original" is anything maketed as a "Daz Original". I think what the OP is referring to is what Daz has been calling "core characters", which provide the user with special morphs which aren't available with the "base character". Arcadia 8.1 should have morphs that wouldn't be available from dialing body and head shapes with Genesis 8.1 Female. It's these morphs that provide the bulk of the value, and some particular characters will have hard (absolutely necessary) or soft (if you want your figure to have the exact shape you're seeing in promo renders) dependencies on those core character morphs. Core characters don't usually have an unusual number of surface/texture options (makeup, eye colors, etc.), As mentioned, the value is mostly in the shapes/morphs. A core character with too many surface options would make the individual PA-developed character models a little less appealing and more redundant by increasing the "I could already do that with the character models I already have" factor. Those PA-developed character models main selling points tend to be things like minor differences in body or facial geometry, texture options, or inherent HD features.
(To my way of thinking, the new core characters for Genesis 8 ceased to meaningfully extend the types of characters you could make about three years ago. Since then, they're relying on (1) impulse purchases from people who base their decisions on promo renders rather than thinking about whether that core character really extends what kind of human figure they could make from assets they already have, and (2) obsessive collecting with little planning for use. There may be as few as ten female body shapes that have significant commercial appeal. Beyond this, we're really into serious redundancy or small niche appeal.)
As to pricing, I'm always baffled by people who concern themselves with list price. With the Daz store, we're in a situation where most items are discounted most of the time, or sold in a bundle at a discount. With Daz, you really only need to concern yourself with actual dollars (or whatever currency) spent, not percentage discounts off of a not-very-meaningful list price. The higher pricing of core characters is both a residue of the time when those characters were hard dependencies for other character models (I don't believe there are any other characters dependent on Arcadia 8.1--The pricing method is obsolete, but hey, somebody is buying), and a result of the core characters being frequently sold as part of a bundle--the bundle looks like more of a bargain when the core character's price is high.
Quoting myself from an older thread:
I remember how with a new DO character, there'd be multiple characters released that utilized the DO character morph. So if you wanted a certain character to look how they should, you needed that specific core character. I don't really see that happening at all anymore.
Aside from that, I've found that if you want to use Daz characters in a program like Blender, even though Diffeo does an absolutely amazing job transferring the materials from Daz to Blender, I've found that some skins from a few PA's don't look right when you bring them over, it's not always guaranteed to look like it does in Daz, but I have never seen a DO character's materials not look stunning in Blender. Someone who really knows materials might know how to fix it, but I've tried playing around with some of the materials and never could figure out what the issue was. So I like getting the DO characters for their skins because I know I can bring them into Blender and it'll look how it should.
Yes, I meant Daz Original Base Characters.
I agree that Babina (your example) is a great skin and that some 3rd party vendors create lower quality skins (and some are just awful) but a lot (Mousso for example) make considerable effort and create excellent skins.
Fair point, I appreciate that some people might want the more unusual character design of someone like Floyd or Topsy but IMO the huge price difference is not justified.
Regarding clothing and hair fit. I've had a few cheap characters where clothing and hair struggles but for the vast majority from 'big sellers' I've not had any problems.
My thoughts exactly. And like you, I wait for the 'special offers' to make the price reasonable.
I remember those days. If I remember correctly, Victoria 7 was required for a phenomenal number of 3rd party characters. There were a few characters that required 'Sydney 8' that I never ended up buying because I didn't really want to pay for the base character on top, perhaps why the frequency of this 'base reliance' appears to have drastically reduced over the years.
That's interesting. Although I have downloaded Blender, I haven't yet had a chance to explore it and teach myself how it works. I suppose I'll find out about this issue soon(ish). Thanks for the heads-up.
Yes, from my examples and everything I wrote, obviously I meant 'base characters'.
I appreciate that some of the characters have a very unique shape/morph which may not be easy to replicate with morph packages. This could justify a slight increase of price over the majority of 'other vendor' character models.
I disagree. I don't think the bare minimum additional textures approach to base character packages is acceptable because there is so much value in the morphs. If the package costs 4 times the price of a PA character, then the package should include 4x the value. It's not just that they don't include a ton of options, it's that they hardly include anything in the package. IMO the morph isn't worth anywhere near 4 times the price. However, I completely agree with you that the base characters stopped meaningfully extending the possibilities some time ago, with the odd exception. IMO that emphasies my view even further, that they're not worth the full asking price, unless someone needs that specific look to fill a niche.
Yes, I mentioned the discounts several times in my original post.
So basically the high price is exactly what the supermarkets / shops do (which I believe is now illegal in some European countries), where they hike the list price up to a ridiculous point, then slash the price with 'amazing discounts' to make it look like a bargain - in the hope that some poor sap doesn't realise how often the 'sales' are on and pays full price, and others simply fall for this predatory 'discount' marketing ploy and rush to buy it at the now 'bargain' price.
I think we're actually in agreement about the pricing of core characters. I haven't bought one in a long time, as I can't justify the price when the redundancy factor is high. I can't justify paying more than I would for a quality PA-made character model. I was just explaining Daz's logic in my previous post.
The Daz discount game is neither illegal nor deceptive in American law. I think it's impossible to deny that the appeal of this sort of discounting from a notional list/full price is strongest for consumers that tend toward impatience and irrationality. None of us are completely immune from those tendencies, but for some, it's their usual practice. "More money than sense" is a common idiom for a reason.