My Genesis 3 review
SnowPheonix
Posts: 896
DAZ3d has made leaps and bounds in the area of character shapes, interaction and articulation... Unfortunately it appears that none of the product creators have bothered to look at real human skin again and take into account that real people don't have a single color skin. We all have some type of tan lines, sun spots, freckles and in general, multi-colored skin on different areas of our bodies.
I've bought the update based on the fact that I want to be in on the ground floor but somebody has to get out and actually scan real human skin and start making skin that doesn't look 'cartoonish' like as in promotional images you are still putting forward. NOBODIES skin is that bland. Knuckles, palms, chest and neck should all show some color differences.
I hope some of you start to seriously look at pictures of real people and ask what you need to do to make the skin look real so that you can turn around and sell us a more realistic looking product.
Whats particularly frustrating is they even address the issue on the promotion page:
"The more detailed a character is, the more realistic and life-like they become. With over tens of thousands of polygons, and extreme levels of detail on some of the most critical body parts such as the face, mouth, teeth, hands and feet, modeled nail beds and chest and neck."
So lets follow through on the really small details and go the extra yard to give us a more realistically skinned character too.
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Comments
After further consideration, I'd like to reconsider my previous thoughts as overly critical and recognize the potential here.... I'm looking at the potential of this product combined with all the other very recent advances being made by Daz3d, I realize its going to take a little time... I'm looking forward to a lot more HDRI's and Zev0's age morphs to go with Gen 3... it can only keep getting better and more flexible and now with all the new articulation points it looks like were ready for anything.
I have to recognize that a lot of hard work has been done and DAZ managed to keep the cost extremely reasonable and the software free so instead of complaining.. I'll work to get more artist interested in seeing the benefit of a shared dream.
Thanks for great products... no doubt the best is yet to come.
Hmm, that sounds about the way I thought it was. Possibly somewhere between the two differing views, after all there is no black and white, just shades of gray.
I don't consider the plane-old Genesis (1, 2, or 3) skin mats to be anything other then a starting point for add-on mats of more realist (or toon) quality. Still, I have seen mats on generation6 figures that were incredible and others that just made the Bree mats look good, lol. So, yes, good quality figures are very much appreciated. That extends beyond just the skin-tone, and includes the entire figure (consistent seamless bump maps, geometry that works with cloths, jaw adjustments to that keep the mouth from going threw the chin when posed, etc). Beyond that, it becomes very subjective, as what I like is very much different from what the next person prefers.
John Sheridan - Yeah, well I've never known hope when it wasn't on a diet.
Snow, open the textures in a photo-editing package and look at the actual detail on them. They are really quite good (well, I'm talking about the V7 skin, I haven't looked at the Female Base skin). Most of the texture artists that I talk to on a regular basis DO use photographs to texture their characters. The skill level of one texture artist over another will, of course, determine how well they use those photo references, but for the most part they all use them. Nobody is handpainting skins anymore, unless it is for toon style characters.
The G3F base texture is excellent, far more detailed than the one that came with the G2F base. Renders very well using Iray right out of the box too.
(remember we have two Snows around here) ;)
You know I love what your doing. Hope life is treating you well...
I think the best thing to do is go out to "The Valley" over in Hollywierd and stop by the adult entertainment industries offices and ask any of the woman working there if they want to be artistically immortalized and then rent digital scanning equipment and scan a couple of porn stars and give us a photographic replica of the many people who would simply love to be the most popular girl in the world. I would do it but I'm on the other side of the planet and its not my business.. I just want the end product.
The idea of using photo references is like trying to make a copy of a copy and loosing most of the details along the way... We have the technology to scan people and there are hundreds of people looking for recognition... The goal is to focus on the solutions because we know we have the technology to do it... they use it in Hollywood productions like Terminator and Tron and we should be using it too.
Don't get me wrong... I love everything these guys are doing but until the characters are pure photographic replicas, our results can only have the details the original is given... We name these characters because they aren't meant to be generic platforms in my opinion...
You rock Slosh. :)
I think for me the bottom line is that I am LOVING the new Vic 7 and I want MORE.
THanks
You know I love what your doing. Hope life is treating you well...
I think the best thing to do is go out to "The Valley" over in Hollywierd and stop by the adult entertainment industries offices and ask any of the woman working there if they want to be artistically immortalized and then rent digital scanning equipment and scan a couple of porn stars and give us a photographic replica of the many people who would simply love to be the most popular girl in the world. I would do it but I'm on the other side of the planet and its not my business.. I just want the end product.
The idea of using photo references is like trying to make a copy of a copy and loosing most of the details along the way... We have the technology to scan people and there are hundreds of people looking for recognition... The goal is to focus on the solutions because we know we have the technology to do it... they use it in Hollywood productions like Terminator and Tron and we should be using it too.
Don't get me wrong... I love everything these guys are doing but until the characters are pure photographic replicas, our results can only have the details the original is given... We name these characters because they aren't meant to be generic platforms in my opinion...
You rock Slosh. :)
I think for me the bottom line is that I am LOVING the new Vic 7 and I want MORE.
THanks
Oh, so I see now. You are saying that using photo references just isn't good enough for what you are looking for. I guess I understand that, but until all of the texture artists can afford this skin scanner you allude to, I think you will just have to be happy with the really good, high resolution textures they are providing you. Or make your own? I've noticed a trend with a search for some sort of realism that you are not going to get for $16.95 in a 3d store. Good luck to you
Oh, so I see now. You are saying that using photo references just isn't good enough for what you are looking for. I guess I understand that, but until all of the texture artists can afford this skin scanner you allude to, I think you will just have to be happy with the really good, high resolution textures they are providing you. Or make your own? I've noticed a trend with a search for some sort of realism that you are not going to get for $16.95 in a 3d store. Good luck to you
(Mad Respect) You'll not get an argument from me .. You are right on the money and everything right now is a freaking bargain when I think of the work you guys put into it...
I expect that the type of character I'm thinking about, I'd pay upwards of $100 just for the base... probably even more .. I mean, I'm asking for premium services and it means risk taking...
I'm happy with what I'm getting even you have to agree that we should always strive for nothing less then the absolute best... and I know you already give it..
Fortune favors the bold.. thanks for all you guys do.
I can't really speak for Iray as I don't use it, but, in terms of 3Delight I feel that the newer generations of figures are being held back by the shaders. I think they are the culprits for the lack of realism in the skin. Even G3F uses the AoA Subsurface shader, which as been around since Genesis. We need a new advanced 3Delight shader to complement the advances there's been with textures and morphing. I've seen things with 3Delight which still make it a viable proposition alongside, and not competing with, Iray.
CHEERS!
I think my upcoming character has alot of details to hopefully appeal to you
Rawn
She looks nice, when does that lingerie we keep seeing actually hit the store!?
CHEERS!
I'd love to see some really well-designed apps that can procedurally generate skins. I was hoping that any Genesis 3 would do something like that, to free up how skin textures are designed.
Ah well.
I think this is why they've set G3 up the way they have, so you can do that in programs that support it.
CHEERS!
I own a lot of your products... so the last thing I want to do is alienate you Rawn. I'm going to be critically honest with you in hope that the end product is up to your high standards. Please understand I'm trying to be helpful. :)
As I look at your character, I love a lot of the details that I'm seeing on the body.. the hands have great coloration and everything below the neck is absolutely brilliant multi colored skin that looks very detailed. I do wonder if she has palm prints but the top of her hands look wonderful.
The face is where you loose me... too much make up and unrealistic rouge on the cheeks isn't very attractive and eyes need a lot more work because they lack depth and qaulity... I find on the face the eyes are the most looked at and the least paid attention too for some reason.
In the end, your original should look like a photograph and when you feel like you've hit that mark of photo-realism and you can fool the people around you into thinking that the picture is a real girl... then you've joined the revolution and I wish you all the luck... when you get to that point, you have to charge accordingly for that product and I'm happy to wait for it. Great things take time.. (respect)
I own a lot of your products... so the last thing I want to do is alienate you Rawn. I'm going to be critically honest with you in hope that the end product is up to your high standards. Please understand I'm trying to be helpful. :)
As I look at your character, I love a lot of the details that I'm seeing on the body.. the hands have great coloration and everything below the neck is absolutely brilliant multi colored skin that looks very detailed. I do wonder if she has palm prints but the top of her hands look wonderful.
The face is where you loose me... too much make up and unrealistic rouge on the cheeks isn't very attractive and eyes need a lot more work because they lack depth and quality... I find on the face the eyes are the most looked at and the least paid attention too for some reason.
In the end, your original should look like a photograph and when you feel like you've hit that mark of photo-realism and you can fool the people around you into thinking that the picture is a real girl... then you've joined the revolution and I wish you all the luck... when you get to that point, you have to charge accordingly for that product and I'm happy to wait for it. Great things take time.. (respect) I'll just add, Eyes can be the most difficult part to get, because of all the different refractions, reflections, and many different refraction interfaces.
So, aside from another doubt that I will not repeat the question of in the hopes of also not alienating Rawn, I'll just wait and be surprised at release.