Making Suspenders be Suspenders rather than Clingers

Doc Acme

I've run into this before and never really resolved it & would like to understand why. 

These are dForce suspenders from the Grit outfit.

https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-grit-outfit-for-genesis-8-males

All the product page shots seem to show a stance rather than a zeroed pose. Hmmm.

The default SIM settings are used from Current Frame (0) and the Collision mode set to Best in the Sim panel. I made comparison renders and the shirt sims OK, the main pants sim as well, but the Suspenders don't budge.

I'm not a neophyte with dForce but certainly don't have a Doctorate in it either, but just not seeing anything obvious between the two surfaces. Both items are ckecked to Sim, are Vis, and the Pants are set to Smooth as indicated in the original dForce companion panel.

What am I missing & where's a good place to start investigating?

felis

I assume you would like them to be more stretched.

I don't have the outfit.

You could try setting Contraction-Expansion to 95 and se how that looks.

pjwhoopie@yandex.com

Isn't this the problem with most clothing items though that have straps on the shoulders (bikinis, bras, etc) the "strap" conforms to the body, they don't suspend the garment.

If you can figure it out for this, it might work for other clothing as well....

maikdecker

Doc Acme said:

What am I missing & where's a good place to start investigating?

I don't have that outfit, but usually (!) when things have got the dForce modifier apllied and still don't seem to follow gravity, it's because there's some dForce weight map applied to them that's supposed to make sure that the connections between - in this case - pants and suspenders doesn't disappear or explode.

Looking at the promo for that outfit, I would expect (!) the pant and suspenders being not made as a single object, but as two that are rigged together. Sorry for the lack of proper nomenclature, as I'm only a user, not a 3d thingies builder

So, looking at that product, I would expect at least the buttons and the leatherstrip-thingies as connection between pant and suspenders do be weightmap to not to budge a bit.

You could try to change this by selecting the pants in the scene tab, then adding a dForcer weight map (create -> add new dForce Modifier Weight Node), using the Node Weight Map Brush tool and adding the probably most fitting "unused map" as the weight map to be modified. It *should* show the weights built into the pants/suspenders by the PA (if any) and allow you to change these weights. Only add weight to the suspender part, that is not connected to the buttons, to keep the whole thing from exploding. Might take a bit experimenting to get it right. Probably DAZ will shut down with an dForce error... just keep trying, and it might (!) work in the end.

Good luck

Sevrin

Garter belts have the same issue, which is why I don't use them.

Doc Acme

felis said:

I assume you would like them to be more stretched.

I don't have the outfit.

You could try setting Contraction-Expansion to 95 and se how that looks.

Tried that at it didn't do diddly.

Doc Acme

Well, this seems to be a commonish problem.  I'll fiddle with it some more in Daz.

NorthOf45

Call me intrigued...

I do have this outfit, and unfortunately, the suspenders do not have any dForce weight at all. They are part of the pants, and the dForce influence weight map is essentially from the hips down.

However, there is nothing to stop you from adding more to the map. You can select all the suspender parts from the Geometry Editor, or Geometry Selection mode in the Node Weight Map Brush tool. You need to select all the bits and pieces, or they will stay suspended in whatever position they are in when you simulate. You can fill 100% for everything, but remove a little bit around the buttons to ensure those ends stay put.

Unfortunately, again, not all the parts are welded together (strap ends, buckles, fastener), so they do fly apart when simulated. You can't remove the influence to keep them in place, because, as mentioned, they hang in their original conformed position. I remembered a little largely forgotten, or overlooked, piece of Studio magic, the Polyline Dynamic Surface AddOn and its big brother Polyline Wireframe. The wonderful How to Use dForce: Creating a Blanket, Draping Clothes on Furniture, and Much More [Commercial] thread is a good place to get some quick tips and leads to more in-depth info. Look for dForce Add-On Modifier or Polyline in th econtents on the first page.

Basically, just put a few stiches in with the dynamic polyline where the parts meet to hold them together without affecting the weight maps. It is a bit tricky to get them in the right places (they still tend to pull apart a bit), but works fairly well with the suggested Contraction-Expansion set to 90-95% on the straps and elastics. It also snugs the supenders down tight and straightens them out a lot.

Here are two shots, before and after simulation. Still needs a little work at the strap ends, but you get the idea.

Doc Acme

I've taken notes & certainly will take a look at all that North, well at some point anyway. Those do look better.

I'm looking at this outfit to use on a corpse, so the clingy 'spenders might work for me in this case.

 

Doc Acme

In fact they did in this case ...

kyoto kid

...check this out:

https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/582941/can-suspenders-look-believable-i-would-say-yeah