Genesis 3 Bake Joint Rotation Problem

Immersive-DreamWorld

Hello,

I am very new to modeling and fitting items to DAZ Figures. I modeled highheels for Genesis 2 and follwed this way to transfer them to Gen2:
modeling around the pose foot --> importing mesh into DAZ --> put Genesis 2 into footpose --> bake joint rotation --> zero figure --> using transfer utility tool; and voila it worked:-) (I do not know if there is another way - made this after a tutorial from bobbie25)

Now I tried exactly the same way for Genesis 3 and after using bake joint rotation the footpose cvhanged and so my mesh dose not fit any longer.
I have added 2 pics where you can see the problem; first one is only footpose with shoe and the second one after using bake joint rotation.
So, how is it then possibly to fit the shoes to Gen3? Where is my mistake? :-)
Hope here are some people who already have experiences with that and can help me;-)
I would be very happy.
Hope I did it right with the attachments:-)

kitakoredaz

Untill, you apply bake joint rotation, check some jcm should work for genesis.
you can see it select genesis3, then go to parameter tab, show hidden properties.
then go to currently used.

it means when you apply poze, or manually rotate, some node JCM auto work to keep ideal shape.

but if you apply "bake rotation" it reset these auto applied JCM. then remove these JCM value.

Though I do not know detail of your work folow,,
(I usually use transfer rigging,, though it cause some problem too, but I adjust again finally)

because you may use current actor only for "transfer"
then after all , when you load new figure, then wear your shoes,
these morph should be re-applied, then I do not think it cause problem.

===========
then if you just hope to check, or you need to return the shape of gen3female,
you simply add these hidden parameter value manually.

(though it usually link with each node rotation, and should be auto-applied,
but you hope to see it, or hope to use the shape, you need to apply them manually for the
change rigging gen3female ( you may only use for transfer utility I know)

after all, I think , if you model high heel for pozing figure, you may need some tweak,
after "fit to" . (usually after fit to,, with best poze,,
make morph again for shoes, then return zero poze,, up-date geometry is my work flow,,)

kitakoredaz

Then,, I feel you may need to re-shape the shoes mesh.

because, I think,,

you modeled your shoes for pozing actor shape , then jcm deform are included the Actor shape already.
(I thnk you modeled shoes with template (gen3female pozing shape.obj)

but when your shoes fit to the Actor,, your actor will poze (for high heel)
next JCM work for Actor. then the JCM deform should be auto transfered (auto-follow) your shoes too.

it means current shoes re- applied the JCM deform value.

if I were you , anyway,, I try current shoes (after transfer weight etc)
fit- to actor, then poze actor. you may find some problem (not so hard,,)

you just make morph with reverse option for the shoes.with current pozing keep fit to actor.
then un-fit shoes, zero poes shoes. (edit, you need to remain the orignal morph value, to change base geometry)

and export the morphed sahpe as new zero shape of shoes.

improt again, then overwite geometry from top menu. Edit>figure>goemtry>update base geometry.

it should work.. (I do not expect to make shoes shape perfectly same as when it fit to pzing actor.
then tweaking mesh is easy,, after fit to,, poze actor, and modify it by morph , change base geometry)

Immersive-DreamWorld

thank you very much - I will try that and post again here :-)

Immersive-DreamWorld

ok, I saw what you mean and what caused the problem.
But I am stil not sure how to do it the right way :-)

You wrote:
"you just make morph with reverse option for the shoes.with current pozing keep fit to actor.
then un-fit shoes, zero poes shoes. (edit, you need to remain the orignal morph value, to change base geometry)"

I do not really understand what you mean here with the reverse option ..

And when I try to update the geometry the shoe deforms. I am very new to this stuff and I just figured the things out for Genesis 2 .... :-)
I would be very happy if you or someone else could help me (hopefully for noobs ;-) )

kitakoredaz

Hi,, Kyrta, Ok, It should be long to tell all, but I try.

To model perfect high -heel shoes for DAZ genesis figures, (About your case Genesis2female. )
there are two plans

Plan 1. make perfect shoes shape for genesis2female zero pose. (it is not foot poze applied still).
and when gen2female poze for high-heel. (high heel pose, foot poze etc)
adjust deformed shape of high-heel, by re-tweaki weight-map , , applied morphs for foot rigs etc,,

Plan 2 just concentrate to keep good shape, when genesis2femlae poze for high -heel.
not care much about zero poze. you need not keep good shape for non foot poze.

(because, if we use high-heel,, we should bend foot .
that means, shoes not fit our zero poze shape. we change our foot poze for the high-heel or boots etc,,
then if we do not keep the foot poze,, shoes shape may break some how)

About your case,, you modeled your shoes for pozed shape. that means you choose plan 2.

but you seems miss one step (to remove auto-appleid joint controll morph from your model shape.)
now it can not fit well, after genesis2female pozing, as same as you modelied.

then try to correct it by most simple step.

please check again,,

A your shoes are fit to genesis2female, (non character morph)
B genesis2female are pozing (which you decided for high-heel) OK?

just keep it . but save curernt foot poze of genesis2female. (to set good poze easy)

(not tweak or remove auto-followed morph etc,, just keep it as same as when you use the shoes)

1. export current shoes (not fit well for pozing genesis2female) as shoes.obj to your favorite modeling tool.
you may need to export current genesis2 shape.obj (pozed) as template too.

2,correct the shoes.obj to fit the current genesis2shape, then export as morph.obj.

3 use morph loader pro , then import the morph.obj on to the shoes.
must check on, Reverse defomation Yes. see my pic1

4 now you have moprh controller to change the shoes shape better for pozing genesis2female.
you must see,, when you change the controller to 100% your shoes perfect fit to genesis2female.
you may better save the current scene, (if you mistake something,) see my pic2.

I hope, anyway you finisth these step. and you confirm, now your shoes fit well, when pozing,
with manually applied morph.

if all OK,
we can go next step ( combine deltta morph shape in base geometry of shoes
then you need not apply morph value whe ever you use the shoes.

kitakoredaz

I need to go job ,then can not wait you confrim ,then I assume you can confirm ^^;
if you have problem about how to use transfer utility etc,, I may reply after.

(I do not know the bobbie25 yout tube tutoriall for high heel,
but most step should same, though you seems use bake rotation, I used transfer rigging etc,,)

anyway,, shoes need to keep good shape, when it fit to actror pozing foot-poze.
but if actor keep zero pose,, shoes shape may break somehow, do not care it at current,,
though I re-tweak it if you need.

=============================

save current scene for protect your work,,

1 un-fit your shoes from current pozing actor.

2 apply zero poze (to poze default rig status ) for the shoes .

it may different how your shoes rigged. somecase your shoes rigs zero poze postion same as foot poze,
somecase your shoes rig with zero poze = genesis zero poze rig positon.
but it is not prioblem. after all, when your shoes fit to Actor, the rig controlled and deformed by Actor rig rotation.

3 export current shape again . (your shoes has been removed auto-followed shape.
but it only applied your import morph shape as 100% with zero poze)
eg newbaseshape.obj ( pic3)

4 to clear see, what happen, remove the import morph value to zero. (or use zero figure for the shoes)

5 now your shoes not keep good shape, but it is base geometry of the shoes. then you overwrite it by exported newbaseshape.obj

6 select the shoes (zero morph, zero poze) , then from top menu Edit>Figure>geometry>apdated base geometry (pic4)

7 select exported newbaseshape.obj . you may see, your shoes shape are overwritten.

8 save it as new figure. then wear the shoes on actor, and apply foot poze for actor,
now you should see, your shoes keep good shape whithout your import morph.(pic 5)

you may feel, you do not keep the morph anymore, then you can remove it if you need.
(I usually just leave it off,,, )

==========
then,, I seems mistake to show pic with genesis2female not genesis3female,
(the only problem was auto-followed joint morph of genesis3female , but it makes no differende,
after you make shoes morph for the actor foot poze, and fit to it)

all step should work as same as genesis3female.

Immersive-DreamWorld

thank you so much for your long answer.
I will got through all you wrote as soon I have time and tell you if I managed to get it all to work.
My problem was or is that I could not get shoes (highheels) properly fit to Genesis 2 or 3 with the transfer utility tool without having Gensis 2 or 3 posed in her footpose and then bake her joint rotation and zero figure so she stays in her footpose.
Maybe this was the wrong step to do. But if I didn't bake joint rotation and zero Genesis it looks like in my pic.
And I thought that is wrong and I did not know what to do :-)

Ok, I will try again and write here again :-)

kitakoredaz

My problem was or is that I could not get shoes (highheels) properly fit to Genesis 2 or 3 with the transfer utility tool without having Gensis 2 or 3 posed in her footpose and then bake her joint rotation .

these steps need to transfer weight and rig from Source figures (not use template)
to shoes which modeled for foot poze.

but after you transfer weight and rigs from "foot poze + bake joint rotation genesis" to " shoes,obj (foot poze shape),"
you need not these steps any more.

just load new genesis1 2 3 (which you choosed for the shoes),
then poze figure as foot poze, load shoes, (fit to)

it is same,, just load genesis1.2,3 then load shoes with fit to. after that,, poze genesis1,2,3 for shoes. (foot pozing)

because the shoes rigs keep rigs and weight as same as foot pozed genesis(1,2,3)

(but if you set zero poze Actor, or Actor foot not keep the foot poze,
the shoes shape may break some how)

in your first quesiton and pic , I felt you have done it .
but you did not count auto-followed JCM when model shoes.
then the shoes not perfect fit I think.:roll:

Now I think, if you could not transfer weight and rigs correctly ,,

These days, I now convert many shoes from gen1 to gen3, or gen2 to gen3,
it is almost same, when I make simple high heel for gen3 I think. I may try it with simple high heel.

then if you report which process you have problem here , I may keep follow it.

kitakoredaz

1. load genesis3female , decide foot poze.
save it as pose preset (only check about foot rigs ) . to use it for your Actor foot poze with your shoes.
eg Myshoes_footpoze.duf. .

2 select genesis3female with foot poze ,
bake joint rotation. (it remove JCM deform)
memorize figure rigging. (it fix current rigging)

then save it as scene subset, to keep current rigged genesis3female.

export it as template.obj for modeling shoes.
it is already removed JCM deform, but it is right

3 modeling shoes.obj in blender hexagon, carrara or your powerful modeling tool, etc , then import it as shoes.obj to ds.
of course, the shape need to fit well for template.obj

4 use transfer utility,
Source gen3female(joint rotation baked) , shape = default,
Target shoes.obj shape = default.

transfer rigs and weight. (not use template it may not work well I think) and do not check "fit to" option.
and you do not need to transfer any morph from gen3female. (they should be auto-followed, when shoe fit to)

5 remove gen3female (rotation baked) from the scene. or hide it.

load new gen3female, then apply poze preset which saved before.
select the rigged shoes. "fit to" gen3female (foot pozing). it should fit current poze genesis3femlae shape.

6 save the shoes keep (fit to) as new figure.

7 if you want auto apply foot poze for your actor, when you load shoes and fit to,
save the shoes as wealable preset.duf. too. then use it to load your shoes.

It is all basic step you need, I think.:)

Immersive-DreamWorld

again thank you very much for your patience and your time you spend to answer.

I followed the steps in your last post with the transfer tool:
it looks all ok as long as the shoe is not fit to a new Gen 3 figure; then it looks like the first picture shows.
I have no problem to fix the green marked area with weightmapping, deleting bones or with a corrections in my modelling program.
But I cannot find a way for the ankle strap; I know it is the JCM (I think).

I tried everything you mentioned here; when I make a morph the way you told me it seems to work (see 2. pic. ) but as soon as I save the shoe and try to fit it again to Gen3 the strap deforms again as you can see in the 3. pic.

I really do not know what to try anymore, maybe I should model ballerinas - they are flat ;-)

I could manage to fit the shoe to the foot so it look as it should, but only on the foot.
When I load the shoe without fitting to Genesis 3 the ankle straps and the backcap of the shoe looks deformed and I think they should have a proper looking also when loaded without a figure.
I do not have these problems with Genesis 2 with the same shoe (modeled for Gen 2 of course)

kitakoredaz

Hi,, mmm,,:roll:

just confirm,

Have you modeled the shoes for gen3female which pozed and bake joint rotation already? (it is right way)
or you modeled the shoes for gen3female which poze, but not bake joint rotaion? (it cause jcm problem)

and when you transfer weight map, did you memorize figure rigging?
( you need memorize figure rigging to transfer foot pozed rigs correctly)

Then,,
after you transfer weight and rigs, from genesis3female (pozed + bake joint rotation + memorize figure rigging)
you need not the figure any more, just delete it from the scene.

if you still keep the change rigged figure, then try fit your shoes to the actor, it may not work well.
you just need the foot poze, but not need Actor who baked joint rotation etc.

then you did not use template ? ( footwear tempalte can not work for high heel shoes)

if you did all I mentioned above,, I may try same step agan,, then hope to find what cause problem.
I simply thought,, the problem is only JCM which auto-followed. may need more thinking,,.

=================
then pic2 , you set the morph 100%, then it should fit well (corrective),
but pic3 you not set the morph value (keep 0 %)

I think it is usuall . you need to set it manually 100%,
untill, you overwrite base geometry (include the moprh delta)

kitakoredaz

Ah,, :roll:I found one of reason, why the around sole mesh deformed when "fit to"

I test with product shoes of gen2female then export it as obj,
and modify it to fit gen3female.
about JCM influence, I feel the above way is right.
when the shoes fit to pozed figure, it auto follow JCM then fit well around ankle .

but I see deformed mesh around front sole as same as your pic.

Then I cneck again, when I bake rotation what happen with node visible.
it should not move any bones, but when I bake rotation,
all Toes of gen3female slightly move inward, then defrom mesh around foot Toes too.
it is not caused by removed JCM.

Though it is slightly move, but it should cause mesh deform about shoes,
after you transfer weight and rig from the "bake rotation gen3female".

I may try to use another way (transfer rigging from pzoed figure, then use it as transfer Source,) but I feel,,
it may cause same problem too.

=======
added one picutre, which I reshaped emily shoes (G2F) for G3F, with "rotation baked gen2female template.obj"
http://www.daz3d.com/ozistyle-for-emily-heels

then I import the obj, and transfer rigs etc in daz studio as same as above way.

azrael_raw

Hello,

thank you very much. I had trouble with my boots, too, but this little "tutorial" helped me tremendously.

AZ

DigiDotz

I was going nuts (again) trying to autorig some high heel boots for Genesis3 until reading this thanks,

JCMFootDwn was giving me problems for anyone who suffers from distorted boot syndrome

I havent saved as a figure yet but here is the the boot fitted with the JCM dialed down

 

Immersive-DreamWorld

so sorry for my late response but I just saw your posts here:-)

Thank you very much.
MEanwhile I tried it after a video from Allen DAZ3D on YT.
I had to do some modification for my shoe but in general it works.

kitakoredaz

WOOOOO thanks,, because, I clear remember this topic,, then I need to find it,, . because,, last week I found , clear answer by you tube tutoriall..

then I hope to add the link for this topic ( yes,, I really struggle with,, this high-heel problem, those days,,^^;) but could not find it, ,at that time.

 

it was added in marble topic,, http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/72018/panties-and-thighs#latest

then,, the tutoriall video from Allen DAZ 3D 　link is here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tbhf7cwq9hM