How do you make two or more JCMs working together?

James

How do you make two or more JCMs working together?

By itself, it looks good, but having two JCMs on the run, it looks terrible.

 

Richard Haseltine

What exactly are you wanting to achieve?

James

I want to make the cloth morph well.

I made JCM for colar rotation left and right.
Rotate one of them, the morph looks good.
But once I rotate both of them, it becomes very bad. So what should I do to make it right?
Make another JCM when both are rotated? how?
Or is there another way?

Richard Haseltine

I can't tell exactly what is going on, but I susepct you may not have reversed the deformations correctly when loading the morph - a JCM should not affect areas away from the actual bend at all, so for the collars the worst might be a bit of overlap around the clavicle or upper sternum and even that I would not expect with most outfits.

However, yes there will be cases (e.g. thigh bends) when you can expect problems and yes, in those cases the solution would usually be a morph to correct the overlapping effect that was tied to both JCMs (one by the usual add, one by multiply)

Catherine3678ab

Maybe something in this will help:

https://www.deviantart.com/catherine3678ab/art/Making-pJCMs-for-Clothing-872454630

 

Pendraia

I'm curious as to why you would use a jcm for this? I've only ever used them in characters and not clothing. Thanks! 

Richard Haseltine

Pendraia said:

I'm curious as to why you would use a jcm for this? I've only ever used them in characters and not clothing. Thanks! 

A piece of clothing may need a custom JCM, for example many skirts. Also, depending on the quality of the projected JCM the creator may want a custom JCM to match a base figure JCM (though theys hould not need to set the ERC up).

Pendraia

Interesting...I suppose they're hidden and work automatically which is why I haven't noticed them before. Thanks for the response Richard...

Catherine3678ab

I was thinking that the op possibly meant pJCMS because that's commonly what we put into the clothing.

However I have no idea how or why those sleeves are in those locations, regardless of which control morph was being made.

My thinking [which could be wrong] would be that full JCMs might be made for clothing for sections which are not 'fit to' the character but rather have their own bones, for eg. in a long skirt with a train.

Pendraia

Catherine3678ab said:

I was thinking that the op possibly meant pJCMS because that's commonly what we put into the clothing.

However I have no idea how or why those sleeves are in those locations, regardless of which control morph was being made.

My thinking [which could be wrong] would be that full JCMs might be made for clothing for sections which are not 'fit to' the character but rather have their own bones, for eg. in a long skirt with a train.

That would make sense...

James

The first time I was introduced to pJCM is when I realize the pJCM of the base character was transfered to the cloth by Transfer Utility.
When I rotated the colar, there was a strech distortion on the armpit. The first thing I did was weight mapping it to distribute the quads evenly.
I thought it was the case.
But what happened was that area becomes bulging.
I think that what's happend when weight mapping while pJCM is on affect.
(Maybe I should delete them all first? I dont know...and I dont know how)

Then I learned from a video that the way to fix it is through pJCM.
Soon from this forum I learned that there are many pJCMs default poses commonly triggering cloth distortion
https://www.daz3d.com/pjcm-poses--for-clothing-creators-for-genesis-8

That's what I'm working right now.

And soon after that I met many difficulties.
Buttons that used Rigid Follow Node flying all over the place after ERC Freeze,
And now, two pJCM that if triggered together messed the whole cloth shape morph.

I'm spending days to understand all of these.
Searching for videos, tutorials, askng this forum, contatct PA customer support, etc.

I am still walking in the dark how to prepare a cloth for sell.
Even the link from PA Customer Support on how to do it, is pretty much random videos, which I have to sort out.
Many useful information, but not directly answer my difficulties.

I don't know how the existing PA did it?
I wonder, did they go through what I'm going through?

James

@Catherine3678ab

I read your tutorial.
I have a question regarding page 38.
When both pJCM of the legging legs are dialed at 100%, spreading the legs.
There's a bump at the middle. You fixed it in hexagon.
Then, all that I can see you import it back using a bridge to daz as a morph named Splitsideways.

How you triggered the Splitsideways latter on, is it triggered automatically when both leg pJCM are activated, or does user dial it manually?

James

I think I know now what's the problem with my pJCMs creation.

I used imported obj from marvelos designer for the pJCMs.
When I posed, MD changed the whole cloth vertices position.
When I imported back as morphs and both collar are rotated.
The whole vertices changes from both morphs are all calculated, resulting the mess.
What I should do was only fix the distorted area, and keep the rest.

 

Now, how to delete the morphs that I have imported through the morph loader and get back to the original?

Catherine3678ab

ekajuan_9f765a669b said:

... edited ...

I don't know how the existing PA did it?
I wonder, did they go through what I'm going through?

Yes although each actual learning path/curve will vary. Took about a year before the first tutorials from PAs started to appear.

Catherine3678ab

ekajuan_9f765a669b said:

I think I know now what's the problem with my pJCMs creation.

I used imported obj from marvelos designer for the pJCMs.
When I posed, MD changed the whole cloth vertices position.
When I imported back as morphs and both collar are rotated.
The whole vertices changes from both morphs are all calculated, resulting the mess.
What I should do was only fix the distorted area, and keep the rest. [correct]

 

Now, how to delete the morphs that I have imported through the morph loader and get back to the original?

 

ekajuan_9f765a669b said:

@Catherine3678ab

I read your tutorial.
I have a question regarding page 38.
When both pJCM of the legging legs are dialed at 100%, spreading the legs.
There's a bump at the middle. You fixed it in hexagon.
Then, all that I can see you import it back using a bridge to daz as a morph named Splitsideways.

How you triggered the Splitsideways latter on, is it triggered automatically when both leg pJCM are activated, or does user dial it manually?

 

As I mentioned on the 1st page of text, the Gem [the answer to your question] is on page 47.

How to delete morphs, page 52. With D/S closed, go to the folder in which you had saved the morphs and manually delete them. [delete button on keyboard]

 

James

I messed up something again.

Suddenly I got 'duplicate formula found' erros.

I look at the log files.

2022-08-23 02:24:36.261 [WARNING] :: ..\..\..\..\..\src\sdksource\fileinput\dzassetdaz.cpp(7158): Duplicate formula found linking pJCMChestFwd_35 & XRotate in D:/Comic/Kreasi/Cloth/Khimar+gamis.duf.

 

pJCMChestFwd_35 on my cloth suddenly becomes a duplicate.

Previously this pJCM has been acting up. It doesnt get triggered by the bone movement as usual. I tried ERC Freeze it. Suddenly DAZ closed down by itself. And when I opened the files, I got the error.

If I delete pJCMChestFwd_35 from my cloth, the error message is gone.

I tried 'morp loader' it again, and freeze it. But DAZ always closed down again.

How can I get it works as before?

 

 

Richard Haseltine

That probably means that you used ERC Freeze on the morph twice (or more) without doing an ERC bake between times to turn it back into free values. If you want to make adjustments after freezing you must find the link in the Property Hierarchy pane (which you can do by using right-click on the slider to show it there, then digging down) and right-clicking on it. But again, are you sure you need to set up the ERC in your clothing? Is this a JCM that the base figuer doesn't have?

Pendraia

ekajuan_9f765a669b said:

The first time I was introduced to pJCM is when I realize the pJCM of the base character was transfered to the cloth by Transfer Utility.
When I rotated the colar, there was a strech distortion on the armpit. The first thing I did was weight mapping it to distribute the quads evenly.
I thought it was the case.
But what happened was that area becomes bulging.
I think that what's happend when weight mapping while pJCM is on affect.
(Maybe I should delete them all first? I dont know...and I dont know how)

Then I learned from a video that the way to fix it is through pJCM.
Soon from this forum I learned that there are many pJCMs default poses commonly triggering cloth distortion
https://www.daz3d.com/pjcm-poses--for-clothing-creators-for-genesis-8

That's what I'm working right now.

And soon after that I met many difficulties.
Buttons that used Rigid Follow Node flying all over the place after ERC Freeze,
And now, two pJCM that if triggered together messed the whole cloth shape morph.

I'm spending days to understand all of these.
Searching for videos, tutorials, askng this forum, contatct PA customer support, etc.

I am still walking in the dark how to prepare a cloth for sell.
Even the link from PA Customer Support on how to do it, is pretty much random videos, which I have to sort out.
Many useful information, but not directly answer my difficulties.

I don't know how the existing PA did it?
I wonder, did they go through what I'm going through?

Thanks for the link...

James

That probably means that you used ERC Freeze on the morph twice (or more) without doing an ERC bake between times to turn it back into free values.

What ERC bake for other than set the values back to free values?
And what actually happens if a morph ERC Freezed twice?
I thought it will overwrite.

If you want to make adjustments after freezing you must find the link in the Property Hierarchy pane (which you can do by using right-click on the slider to show it there, then digging down) and right-clicking on it.

I get this one, how to see the things controlling the slider in the Property Herarchy pane.
But I dont understand yet what those deltas, subtract, add, subcomponents, etc.... those things mean. .

But again, are you sure you need to set up the ERC in your clothing? Is this a JCM that the base figuer doesn't have?

Actually, the problematic slider/pJCM is
a pJCM that the base figure has.
I ERC it, because suddenly, it didn't work with the bone bend anymore.
I dont' understand why, so I ERC freezed it. 
Thinking it might solve the problem.
But no.

I understand what you're saying at the beginning of the thread.
For pJCM that already existing, that comes from the base figure,
I just need to Morp Load it to the cloth, and don't need to ERC freeze it.

 

James

Finally,
I have fixed it.
For the error, I think I fixed it by replacing the base character, and refit the clothing to the new one.

and for the pJCM.
mmm.. not sure how I fixed it.

Richard Haseltine

ERC Freeze links together none-zero proerpties, so that setting oen sets all the others. Doing a second ERC Freeze adds a second link, which is a Duplicate Formula. ERC Bake is the opposite - it removes the links, leaving  everything in the state it was in when the initial freeze was performed.

The different ERC types control how the sub-components respond to changes in the controller - for example, if one controller is set to add and the other to multiply then only when both are non-zero wiil the sub-component have a none-zero value (because if one is zero the result will be zero times something, which is zero).