I do not use Install Manager.
LeggyBlond
Posts: 124
Recently in seeking a solution to some missing files from a purchased prop via Technical support I received a reply that has left be both nonplussed and extremely angry.
I do not use install manger simply because I have multiple Runtimes on Multiple drives and I do not need the irritation of reconfiguring/redirecting install manger when I can simply drag and drop a Zip file. Like I imagine many of us, I was manually installing props and the like long before Install Manager existed! Also like many of use I have spent a not inconsiderable amount of money with Daz.
As we all know, in our Product Library' most props are available to download and install manually in Zip format - so I now wonder why they are there after the following response:-
'Hi Barbara
Unfortunately we cannot support non default installation directories because of the number of issues that come arise. If you would like to install the install manager and install the Eldritch seeker through it i would be happy to walk you through the installation.
Let me know.'
JHC!! walk me through the installation!....I may be Blond but I'm not stupid.
Now let me point out another major flaw with Install Manager. It does not see any of my existing and long term props simply because my Runtimes are properly organised. Install Manger can only see props in the main directories based in such things as their original folder/file names. I do not change file names but as many of you are aware, many props come in folders with names that bear little relationship to what's inside - abbreviations and underscores etc. Imagine having thousands of such props all directly in the main parent directory (Character. Props, Pose etc.) without being organised -
- The directory would take an eternity to scroll though
- Leaving the original obscure folder names would leave us searching for props forever
- There Lies Madness and Total Chaos
I have Sub Directories for such things as Buildings, Vehicles, Female Attire, Male Attire in fact I have managed over many years to properly categorise most anything. It's organised, I can go staright to a Directory and find what I want also because the Folders containg the props are all Renamed to what they actually contain...Simple, effective and organised!!
Why should I or any of us reconfigure our systems simply to suit software that we don't wish to use.
Still Steaming Mad
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Comments
You might try and see if the PA, in this case, Luthbel, might be willing to walk you through it.
Cris I don't think being "walked through" is the problem, if there's files missing from the non DIM download then there's files missing from the DIM download as the same source will have been used to set up both downloads.
@LeggyBlond, sadly support doesn't know any other way than to treat people like us in the same way they treat the sheep.
It may be that there's an issue with the product, in which case isntalling with DIM and testing will show that up and you can go back to support. If it doesn't then soemthing was misplaced when you manually unpacked and you really can't ask support to help with that - the zips are theer and you can manually install, but if you do so you are taking responsibility for getting it to work (assuming there isn't really an issue).
Hi Richard
I really can't see the difference between 'Dragging and Dropping' a zip file which I do not need to unpack because I can access it's contents by double clicking the file. I can also unpack it's entire contents inside my relavant download folder (if I choose to but thats very rare), right click for properties and see the number of files and then what they including the of 'Thumb.db' that may be in there. I can then cross check the number of files against all the various installed folders that it contained and when they agree with each other... should of course I need to do that.
Prior to download manager Zip files in the Product Library existed and were used, I have read neither read nor been informed that not using DLM invalidates my product and if I had done so I would be equally as furious as I am right now and I know I would not by any stretch of the imagination be alone. It's tantamount to saying do I want to buy a soap powder in a box or a plastic bag But the box carries no aftersales service...Totally Ludicrous
Using DLM was never advertised as 'Compulsory' no more than it should be and I know for a fact that many people here choose not to use it. Just because your Help desk is unable to understand how to do the check themselves between what is contained in the DLM files against what is in the Zip files is not my problem. A prop from Daz, no matter what format it comes in as a valid purchase and should carry the same level of assistance unless of course we are 'All' informed that it does not!. Over many years, I have spent many thousand of pounds on this site and I do not expect such total nonsense.
I have pointed out the flaws in DLM which is one of the main reasons I do not use it and I'm absolutely sure that I will not reconfigure my sytem by placing all the original downloads in one lump, with their original often obscure folder names loose in any main directory because there lIes madness and chaos!! If I have props that need to be installed in different Runtimes etc, I can Drag and Drop zip files far quicker than messing around in DLM with selecting know directories and so on.
In this case, the issue is very simple - there are 'Jpg's' missing and I have sent an on screen image of of my dual pain explorer showing quite clearly the contents of the Textures in the Zip folder against the Textures in my textures directory...that does not take a rocket scientist to work out.
As I have already pointed out, no matter whether file comes via DLM or in Zip format...they should both carry the same amount of files and that comparison can quite simply be done by the Help Desk.
This is not any personal attack on your good self, it's simply my anger at what is Total Tosh
Perhaps you can find some kind soul who has the product and uses DIM to report your issue. It won't make you feel any better... but it may get the issue fixed, from which you can still benefit.
There is a lot of room for user-error in installing manually, support cannot be asked to deal with all possibilities when they are inevitably pressed for time and when there is a method available which elminates most possible sources of error. If you have a problem with a manual install try installing with DIM and see if that works - if it doesn't it's a product issue and should be taken to support; if it does then you know something went wrong with the manual install and can uninstall the DIM version and try again with that in mind.
In this case I do have the set, so if you tell me what to look for I can check it for you and file a bug report if needed. However a fair number of people have already used the set so I would have expected more reports if there were a general problem.
The DIM doesn't 'see' what it hasn't installed...so that really isn't an issue here.
Have you checked that the set in question isn't a multipart download? Because I've noticed some sets that should be single downloads, but have something like a fairly large Poser version, don't have all the, usually images, in both the Poser and DS versions (and no, I can't think of a specific one right now...) but often have most of them in one (now it's usually the DS version). If it has a small PoserCF download then that's probably not the case.
There's a single zip fro Eldritch Seeker, it doesn't have a PoserCF pack.
I don't have the set, so I didn't know whether it did or not...just that some sets are not as complete as they should be without the both parts.
This product was updated on the 6th -- please download it again to see if it fixes your issue.
Incidentally, you can use DAZ Install Manager just to download and then install manually if you like -- as long as you leave the files in DIM's download folder, it can still let you know whether a product has been updated. Another option is to let DIM install the product to a dummy folder -- you can then rearrange/rename the folders/files before moving them to your desired location, or just delete the files -- and DIM will be able to track updates even if the zip and the installed files are deleted or moved.
OK Let me try this again...
'There is a lot of room for user-error in installing manually'...there is also a lot of room for user error using DLM and selecting the wrong directory! and then sorting out the mess that can create, not withstanding that, whilst the Help Department would not know this, with no arrogance intended, I am extremely IT and Technically capable, I build, configure and resolve issues on my own, friends and family machines so I'm reasonably well qaulified to recognise other peoples abilities or lack there of and if there is something I don't know, being a woman - I'm not afraid to ask.
It seems to me that online software vendors often seem to think that the normal Customer/Sales protocols don't apply to them
Richard, being an administrator I would expect you to defend Daz but that does not make you Right.
In all honesty, the Daz help department has been on the whole extremely good and helpful and I sincerely hope that this is simply a 'Glitch' in the machine
I forward this to you
The product in question was updated on the 6th, shortly after the issue was reported to Customer Service.
There is no difference between the .zip downloaded through DIM and the one downloaded through the product library. They are the same file.
There may be some confusion, reporting an issue to Customer Service does not require the use of DIM, although they are likely to suggest that as troubleshooting due to the large number of issues reported due to improper manual unpacking.
DIM would have shown the available update, and it is possible to use DIM to download products without then installing them.
Well... If you go to the Readme section of Eldritch seeker, you find a file list there http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/read_me/index/22213/start
if the files in the Zip are not the same as listed in the readme, then it would be a simple pointing out to DAZ "zip content Doesn't match the file list".
Whether or not you install by DIM is a moot point then. However, if the zip contains all the files from the listing, you can use the list to check if they are located correctly in your setup.
I am using manual install for non Daz content, and DIM for DAZ content, so i know both sides of this. For my DAZ content, I am using the CAtegory system, which allows me to easily sort my content, without having to bother with the underlying file system. I do understand the frustration with it. It makes me want to scream, and reorder it.
About the comment of HElp desk, the way understand see it - if you use DIM and make a mess, it IS DAZ problem, as you are using their product, DIM, and set it up wrongly. If you manually move around content, thats a different game....
Its not because they think that you dont know. Its because they dont know what you know or dont know.
I was not telling you to switch to using DIM - I was saying use DIM as a test (install, try to load, if the problem persists open a ticket, if not review your installation); in this case if you had placed your downloaded zip in the DIM downloads folder you would apparently have found there was an update. Using DIM as a troubleshooting step does not mean using DIM all the time if you don't want to - though as noted, used to fetch the files if not to install them it will tell you about updates which manual downloads won't.
To be truthful Richard, I had come to that conclusion this morning but I also appreciate your input. Using DLM simply to resolve differences is not exactly a hardship as you have effectively ponted out. Mind you, I'm sure you can't disagree with the simple fact that DLM files and Zip files should agree with each other in content and also a product purchased is a product purchased no matter what format and as I said in my Soap powder analogy - they should both carry the same level of after sales service and there is no real valid excuse if they don't.
Pause
Ok I have gone through the process of comparing a newer version of the Zip against that which DLM installed and 1x file has been changed in both and although one is still missing, I suspect it was there incorrectly named as the mats now function.
This exercise did reinforce one of my major points in that having multiple locations for various props, changing/selecting the appropriate directories in DLM, particularly if there are several different props, is simply a pain in the butt as I can complete the operation in a fraction of the time with zip files.
A feature DLM does not seem to have (unless I've missed i) is the ability to show only New Downloads
Now that line really appeals to me
[quote=lee_lhs]
Well... If you go to the Readme section of Eldritch seeker, you find a file list there http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/read_me/index/22213/start
if the files in the Zip are not the same as listed in the readme, then it would be a simple pointing out to DAZ "zip content Doesn't match the file list". [/quote]
That is not always right. I recently bought textures for something, released May 2014, and there were some files missing, some .mc6 files. They were missing in the zip and they were missing in the file list so I think the file lists are showing just what is in the zip. I contacted support and it was solved within a week. The files were missing indeed and were made after my report.
After more than a year! So to say there were no complaints earlier is not always while there was nothing wrong in the first place.
I don't use DIM either, that is to say on my main computer because of the cluttering in the folders.
I use it on my test computer( an old 32 bits notebook) mostly to download the stuff and let it install the DS4 only stuff. My administrative heart hurts when I see the mess it makes in the folders! I'm used to my clean folders and always manually install things on my main computer so I can relate to the OP in that case.
As far as the helpdesk concerns, when I would get an answer like she did..... well.... luckily that was never the case and I love the heldesk here.
I hope everything will work out well Barbara, and to tell you the truth... this DIM does a good job for downloading and letting you know when there's an update.... most of the time. However I won't let it mess with my main computer LOL
Love, Jeanne
It is DIM, DAZ Install Manager, the zip file you can download from your Product Library is the same one DIM downloads. The only zips before DIM where for Mac files and some template files. DIM does not scatter files all over the place any more than the old installers did if you didn't change the defaults. This hatred and fear of DIM is completely erational and in that light the help desk's response is understandable. The only flaw I see with DIM is that you can only change the location of the manifest and thumbnail files by hacking its .ini file instead of from within the program.
FWIW, many of us old-timers don't "hate and fear" DIM, we just quite simply have no use for it. Like the OP, I've set up all my content in the pre-DIM days in a manual installation system. No content database to be corrupted, no metadata that could have critical details left out, just a neat hierarchical order of content folders inside group folders inside category folders that makes sense to me. The major problem I have with DIM is that my manual system is invisible to it — to use it to its full extent, I'd have to toss out a system I know intimately and has a lot fewer points of failure, replacing it with a system that many, many people have had serious problems with over the years. I'll happily admit that this won't be suitable for everyone, and that DIM — when it works — can be a great timesaver if you're new to D|S, or you don't have a huge existing content collection that must be re-downloaded all over again. For some of us, though, it's just not worth the bother.
The 'Scattering' I mainly refer to is not o much about it's installation process, it's about what it recognises in terms of existing props etc.. that have been installed. If, like myself, Jeane M and probably anyone else that likes order, they have organised the props with Folder names that actually related to what's contained therein. I have categorised both my Native and Runtime prop folders into types.....simply a logical step to enable me to locate props - DLM does not recognise this. The net result of that is that DLM shows a plethora of props ready to install that are already installed.
It's looking for props in the base directories with folder names that often bear no relationship to it's contents.
As I have already written, I have multiple Runtimes (L,G,H,K Drives) and Native folders (DS2, DS3, DS4.7,DS4.8) - If I have downloaded several props which I wish to install in different locations....I can do that in a fraction of the time with Zip files than it takes compared with DLM - I also use 'xplorer2 Pro' which I have in dual pane mode to expedite the process efficiently.
NB - I have no Fear of DLM, software in General, Technology and many more things.
So it did not help to update the files ?
Just to let you know, I have about 6 different libraries, and it takes only a second to change the install path in DIM to the one I want to install to, DIM also remembers that path, and when there is a Product Update for any item, I don't have to change anything, DIM installs the update to where it installed the original varsion. It really is a great piece of software.
My DLM also has all my Install directories....and I can still do it far quicker with Zips...but then I am using xplorer2 pro, Dual Pane mode with shortcut bars...mear seconds, bigger interface to view, no Logging In, just 2 panes to look at, no moving from tab to tab, effectively far more efficient and.............extremely simplistic!....Oh and I have a total of 8 Libraries, 3 Phyiscal Drives(1x 120Gb SSD, 2x 2TB HDD multiple partitions, Carlos Fandango Wheels, Go Faster Stripes, Super Duper Squidgy Stickers and not forgetting the Fluffy Dice
Just my sense of Humour
Hi Jean at least someone sees the point even though I had no intention of starting WWIII
Anyway, issue resolved but I sincerely hope this forum does not lead to the sudden absence of manual Downloads..I'd simply hate being forced to use something that I don't want to use.
I think I'm inclined to be a "manual install..." person too but I'll concede that the latest DIM's and DS's have greatly improved the content experience at my end. Not everything seems to be there, with every install -- 2 new computers here this year, and 4 new hard drives gaaak!
For example I'm pretty sure that on one of my setups, that I'm reasonably happy with, key assets for V4 are nowhere to be seen. Including paid-for hair. Sometimes I get hair color variations, but not the actual hair!
I don't know if this has been asked before but it seems to me that when all else fails, simple text files are best: a standard packing slip and maybe a note to the effect that "this file does this, that file is supposed to do that" and something like "In Windows X, for best results DS 4.x will want this\to\be\in\such\and\such\a\path\or\folder tree." And
"For users of Windows XII, for best results DS4.y will look for this\to\be\in\such\and\such\path."
A big plus to the new DIM's and DS's is that it makes installation easier. You can really walk away and just let it do its thing if you have a new computer say.
Roman
@Roman_K2, pick one of the products you think is missing and let us know what it is. Perhaps somebody else who owns that product can identify the missing content thumbnail name and either allow you to search for it and find it, or verify that it really is missing. I ocassionally find I've miscategorized (and thus lost) content. It's also possible to have installed it somewhere that DAZ Studio isn't looking at.
DIM starts up the first time small but can be and should be expanded full screen.
Based on the above suggestion I took another look and figured out someof the locations of things that I had earlier thought were "missing". Turns out it may have been was more of a subtle location thing (DAZ vs. Poser formats perhaps) than a fault in DIM or DS. Sorry!
That having been said, some things in DS 4.8 continue to be MIA for me; some are a real puzzle, others may be a store description issue. Please see my new thread, "Locating content - DIM and how content is saved and sorted, in what categories etc" in the New Users section.
For now, here is an example of sortation that has given me the willies for at least two years. I personally tend to think of Nerd 3D's backdrop deluxe model as a prop, not an "environment". Anyway it has taken me a long time to figure out that the prop is listed under "Poser..." in DS, but the other stuff is listed separately under "DAZ..." Also there were a bunch of shaders in the package, that I was unaware of. Lord give me strength!
And the plot thickens because while I would love to post a direct link to this excellent product, when I checked the store just now I got file not found!!!
Nerd3D no longer sells here.
Nowadays products usually have a separate DS version, but back in the pre-DS2 days it was common, if there were DS settings at all, to only have material presets in the DAZ Studio format folders, which were applied to the Poser format files. That has nothing to do with DIM, however, that's how the products were set up back then, and unless they've been updated recently they're still set up that way.