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There really is no need for mesh to follow muscle groups, that is kinda old-school, and very limiting to what is supposed to be a universal mesh.
HD really has no impact on the bending or the natural look to bends, well constructed weight maps take care of that nicely. That is why CBS are made at base resolution, there is no need for HD details for something like bends. It doesnt make it more or less complicated for CBS, they are the same no matter how you make them, though a HD CBS would be a PITA to make, they would take forever.
And yet, for the seven years prior to G9 we have not seen spaghetti appendages. But now we do.
Some of which can be attributed to its being easy to turn the CBSes off by accident.
I absolutely remember that happening when people made their own figures, or combined wildly different figures. Frequently.
Some of those were posted on this forum.
That is a reasonable hypothesis, which suggests a dubious design choice.
I'll take your word for it, but I've only seen these kinds of bends on Poser figures.
While I still buy G8 characters, I'm on the G9 train. Yes, occasionally I've encountered some less than optimal bends on a few G9s, but for the most part mine all seem to work without issues. I've also noticed that some vendors will state something about "joint corrections" (or something to that effect), which leads me to believe they've taken care to make sure the character bends properly.
I have encountered the strange crimping of some hair on G9. I would think that has more to do with how the hair was designed than with G9 itself.
I hear what you are saying but funny, after thousands of renders over the years, I rarely ever had any bend problems with G8 or 8.1.
G9`s limbs and joints look and bend like spaghetti, the armpits look very weird, the knees and calves just look unnatural when bent, and the shins bow too far back which is evident and pronounced when kneeling on the ground. Even the elbows look weird when bent. And I usually have to bring the shoulders in and shrug them to get it to look more femenine.
I never use any characters straight out of the box, but I do pose tests on every character morph that I purchase before putting them into use.
Vendors seem to use a lot of the basic body shapes on G9 when it comes to male characters, based on the 'pancake pec' effect that I usually see.
...manual parenting and fitting should work which also preserves the style and movement morphs (unless the latter are hierarchical presets).
I've been doing that since the AIko3/Gen4 days.
No, just something to be aware of. And one of the reasons for the warning that pops up on using the zero commands.
You'd think from the posts in this thread that g8/8.1 never had bend problems. The presence of a number of "natural bends" and "bend control" products for G8/8.1 implies otherwise.
considering the many products for sale to correct bending and other issues, why don't the creators of the models just do it right to begin with? Its something discussed over and over, but each generation has issues.
Because the process of creating custom JCMs is nerve wrecking, I get that.
Took me years with my custom characters and I still keep spotting issues.
"G8/8.1 also had problems"
Valid. So maybe don't tell us how much better G9 is for us when it seems many improvements are just for PAs.
Personally I`ve never had used any of those products. But everyone`s experience is is different. If it looks good to my followers and clients, then it`s good for me.
But when my followers and clients are noticing the difference in G9, then I have to go back to what works for them and me.
or others who benefit from them. Which may well not be everyone. Support the figues that are useful to you, not those that are not. It should be a pragmatic matter, not not an ideological matter.
That innovation must be on a version later than mine.
I hope we get Genesis 10 for Christmas. With separate male and female base characters having navels and nipples instead of HD morphs.
Can't really comment on G9 bends or anything, since I haven't really used the new figure ( still happily using G8 ). My main problem nowadays is, that I don't really see any reason to upgrade. Including 8k maps is not an innovation that required a new base figure, in my opinion. To be honest, since G3 I haven't really seen much improvement in Daz figures. Jump from G3 to G8 was easier though, because you could still use your old skin materials quite well. This new UV layout for every new figure policy just seems really unprofessional to me; like why won't they do their homework and do it right in the first time? Also, to me it looks like most of the "improvements" seem to be for PAs, not for end users, so I'm not too thrilled to pay for it. But like it's been said many times before, my G3 and G8 figures are still working perfectly well, so I'll just keep on saving my money until Daz creates a new figure that actually brings something new to the table.
It didn't, which is why G8.1 also had those maps. It's the detail maps that are 8K, not all the maps.
There is no "right" way to do UVs. The reason the UVs change is because the geometry changes; apart from G3 and G8, each generation of Genesis is a wholly new figure, and you can't UV map figures with different geometry the same way.
G9 brings plenty new to the table, you just don't like what it brings.
+1
I doubt that will happen
It's such a problematic move that it's hard to rule it out.
I don't think it's ideological. I think there are structural issues with G9 that get hand-waved as if they're nothing or don't exist by other people and especially by some PAs who visit here. It's telling to me that the people with the most difficulty and/or frustration with G9 are using G9 to make human characters in their renders and the most ardent PA supporters are making not-human characters. Obviously the G9 mesh with its generic grid-based quad structure and reliance on subdivision is going to have different performance parameters than an edge-loop based model specifically intended to make human characters. And yet, we're basically told, "Nah-ah, that's not true. Get with the program." Seems to be a fair amount of evidence that there are some problems with G9 human characters, just sayin'.
I believe the G9 mesh favors those PAs making not-human characters, perhaps allowing PAs to make characters that were previously only possible with a whole lot of geografting. The price for that is, basic human features such as nipples and navels are now geografted onto the figure with not always the best results. And there are bend issues which seem to be equal to or greater than in previous generations. There is even a recently noted problem with structure of the G9 eye where the light can catch the edge of the iris spoiling the look of the rendered eye, and the transition from iris to sclera is razor sharp. Finally, the promised easement of male to female cross-figure compatibility hasn't quite panned out as anticipated - The obvious preference for G9 feminine is frankly overwhelming. Yet, many of us already have libraries bursting to overflowing with female figures, outfits, poses, props, etc. Many already spent money to fix the issues with those older figures so that they can already do what is needed. Thus, it's a tough sell to begin with.
That's my observation of what I see going on here. And for myself, I do exactly as you suggest - I support the figures that serve me and my needs now. And that means, for the most part, the G9 train is still rolling merrily along without me.
I've ended up acquiring quite a few G9 characters now, they're often on pretty good sale. I have to say I don;t like the eyes overall, the reflections seem off most of the time, leaves a line about 2/3 of the way up. Yeah, expressions overall are terrible to work with and it changes a lot from one character to the next. I'm really not into androgeny in my work, via clothes or overall look of the figures. I see so many G9M in female poses, the same I've heard how the poses with the new toddler Luna is posed in adult form. On a positive note, a lot of the hair, clothing are very nice looking. I think that is what originally started getting me to buy G9 products at all. Unfortunately not very backward compaitble, another negative. I tried to use a beard product for G9 on G8 yesterday and it came in at his neck. G9M is a head shorter than g8. At least the charaxcter :I compared G8 with from the essentials package. I had no problems using g8/8.1 forever actually, just like V/M 4. They worked just fine overall for what I was doing.