Expressions for Genesis 9?

Peter Wade

The earlier Genesis figures all have expressions in a sub-folder under Pose Controls for the head. I've looked there for Victoria 9 and there is a Visemes folder but no Expressions. Have they moved the expressions somewhere else or are they not available yet?

I suppose this means we have to wait for expressions to be sold seperatly. It's a bit annoying having a new figure and no way to control the expression on the face.

rosseliani

Peter Wade said:

The earlier Genesis figures all have expressions in a sub-folder under Pose Controls for the head. I've looked there for Victoria 9 and there is a Visemes folder but no Expressions. Have they moved the expressions somewhere else or are they not available yet?

I suppose this means we have to wait for expressions to be sold seperatly. It's a bit annoying having a new figure and no way to control the expression on the face.

24 expression dials for V9 here, I don't know if they work on the base G9: https://www.daz3d.com/emotions-expressions-for-victoria-9

AllenArt

rosseliani said:

Peter Wade said:

The earlier Genesis figures all have expressions in a sub-folder under Pose Controls for the head. I've looked there for Victoria 9 and there is a Visemes folder but no Expressions. Have they moved the expressions somewhere else or are they not available yet?

I suppose this means we have to wait for expressions to be sold seperatly. It's a bit annoying having a new figure and no way to control the expression on the face.

24 expression dials for V9 here, I don't know if they work on the base G9: https://www.daz3d.com/emotions-expressions-for-victoria-9

They do work on the base G9, but they are not like the standard expressions that we usually get. They move eyes as well as the face, which I don't really care for. Normally with most new generations, they release an expressions pack, a head morph pack and a body morph pack. We haven't seen those yet and I have NO idea when we will. The base is pretty useless without them, as is most of the stuff in the store for G9 so far. A lot of it relies on those missing morphs. Daz has been totally bass ackwards on this whole release.

beregar

AllenArt said:

They do work on the base G9, but they are not like the standard expressions that we usually get. They move eyes as well as the face, which I don't really care for. Normally with most new generations, they release an expressions pack, a head morph pack and a body morph pack. We haven't seen those yet and I have NO idea when we will. The base is pretty useless without them, as is most of the stuff in the store for G9 so far. A lot of it relies on those missing morphs. Daz has been totally bass ackwards on this whole release.

The head and body morphs should come out next week according to Richard. No idea if there will be an expression pack though.

Tynkere

beregar said

The head and body morphs should come out next week according to Richard. No idea if there will be an expression pack though.

That's good to know.  Had wondered where 'missing' options/morphs were for G9 chest, waist, hieght, bady habitus, etc.

Skyewolf

There are a metric ton of dails under Head>Pose Controls that allow you to create just about any expression you could ever want. Also they released an expression set for Victoria 9 which should work just fine for any G9 figure. https://www.daz3d.com/emotions-expressions-for-victoria-9

Peter Wade

rosseliani said:

Peter Wade said:

The earlier Genesis figures all have expressions in a sub-folder under Pose Controls for the head. I've looked there for Victoria 9 and there is a Visemes folder but no Expressions. Have they moved the expressions somewhere else or are they not available yet?

I suppose this means we have to wait for expressions to be sold seperatly. It's a bit annoying having a new figure and no way to control the expression on the face.

24 expression dials for V9 here, I don't know if they work on the base G9: https://www.daz3d.com/emotions-expressions-for-victoria-9

Thank you for showing these to me. They look good even if they are for Vicky 9 only. I am going to buy them. 

rosseliani

 

@AlienArt said

They move eyes as well as the face, which I don't really care for. 

Do you mean they move the head like some 3D Universe's expressions? I don't like spending time to pose the head and then it moves when I apply a smile.

Masterstroke

I am in fact impressed by G9's expressions. 

Peter Wade

beregar said:

AllenArt said:

They do work on the base G9, but they are not like the standard expressions that we usually get. They move eyes as well as the face, which I don't really care for. Normally with most new generations, they release an expressions pack, a head morph pack and a body morph pack. We haven't seen those yet and I have NO idea when we will. The base is pretty useless without them, as is most of the stuff in the store for G9 so far. A lot of it relies on those missing morphs. Daz has been totally bass ackwards on this whole release.

The head and body morphs should come out next week according to Richard. No idea if there will be an expression pack though.

If I remember it rightly I bought head and body morphs and an expression set almost as soon as each generation was released. I would like to have been able to do the same for Genesis 9.

Skyewolf

Masterstroke said:

I am in fact impressed by G9's expressions. 

The addition of a bunch of new FACS sliders make it so much easier to dial in subtleties that make expressions so much more realistic. Mouth corner stickiness and eye corner compression are two of my favorite new ones. Not to mention there's an extra tongue slider that makes posing the tongue out a lot more realistic. 

Skyewolf

Peter Wade said:

If I remember it rightly I bought head and body morphs and an expression set almost as soon as each generation was released. I would like to have been able to do the same for Genesis 9.

The expression set released with Victoria 9 works just fine on Base Genesis 9. 

Leana

Peter Wade said:

beregar said:

AllenArt said:

They do work on the base G9, but they are not like the standard expressions that we usually get. They move eyes as well as the face, which I don't really care for. Normally with most new generations, they release an expressions pack, a head morph pack and a body morph pack. We haven't seen those yet and I have NO idea when we will. The base is pretty useless without them, as is most of the stuff in the store for G9 so far. A lot of it relies on those missing morphs. Daz has been totally bass ackwards on this whole release.

The head and body morphs should come out next week according to Richard. No idea if there will be an expression pack though.

If I remember it rightly I bought head and body morphs and an expression set almost as soon as each generation was released. I would like to have been able to do the same for Genesis 9.

At a guess, there was a last minute problem with the product which delayed the launch.

PerttiA

Leana said:

Peter Wade said:

beregar said:

AllenArt said:

They do work on the base G9, but they are not like the standard expressions that we usually get. They move eyes as well as the face, which I don't really care for. Normally with most new generations, they release an expressions pack, a head morph pack and a body morph pack. We haven't seen those yet and I have NO idea when we will. The base is pretty useless without them, as is most of the stuff in the store for G9 so far. A lot of it relies on those missing morphs. Daz has been totally bass ackwards on this whole release.

The head and body morphs should come out next week according to Richard. No idea if there will be an expression pack though.

If I remember it rightly I bought head and body morphs and an expression set almost as soon as each generation was released. I would like to have been able to do the same for Genesis 9.

At a guess, there was a last minute problem with the product which delayed the launch.

Even the G9 Starter Essentials had problems which surfaced immediately once anyone tried to use them... Does not sound like there was much testing done, QA - What's that? 

daveso

where do i find the expressions or FACS within DS?

AllenArt

daveso said:

where do i find the expressions or FACS within DS?

The expressions are in the usual areas (you can find them all if you choose the root of the figure) and choose the posing tab. There isn't any FACS yet for G9 that I'm aware of. That said, the FACS slider under the figure parameters should be on if you want to see all the skin folds and stuff with your expressions :). Otherwise, they'll look quite bland.

Richard Haseltine

The sldiers, grouped by area, are in the Parameters pane under Pose Controls>Head.

daveso

thanks on the sliders

MallenLane

There is a bit of confusion about what FACS is. Facial Action Coding System was created by behavioral researchers as a psychology tool to break down the regions of facial movements that add up to a recognizable expression. So, as a basic example, if you add eye squint, mouth smile, and cheek flex together you get a full face smile. FACS units are those individual dials, anything else, a face harness/power pose etc are just rigs to interact with the FACS units.

G8.1 list of Units followed pretty strictly to the FACS Units indicated in Apples ARKIT spec for mocap. There is generally a 1:1 match to their spec and a couple added. It's a fairly limited list however.

The changes made for G9 were to still adhere to that spec, to add more, or to change existing ones so they are more flexible.

The result is that there are a lot of new Units that didn't exist in 8.1:

• Such as lips sticky (meant to be animated as the mouth opens to represent lip skin contact delay) but also things like swallow, and a host of smaller tweaking controls.
• And many of the existing ARKIT standard units are broken up into smaller units for flexibility. Mouth funnel for example, broken into upper/lower/left/right quadrants. Or brow movements broken into more directions. Of lips pucker changed to be two components, compression to the teeth vs forward movement  This allows you to take those basic movements and create more complex or assymmetrical movements.
• The G8.1 Units had HD shaping built into their sculpting. For G9 the Units have a seperate set of HD details that work as a layer over the standard units. This allows you to control the intensity of the details that get added. Maybe you are doing a cartoon and you don't want wrinkles to the brow raise. Or a monster with  scales where general movement would be more appropriate than detail changes. It adds flexibility. 

Generally speaking the number of movement Units has doubled from G8.1. It was somewhere past 100, and is now somewhere past 200 for G9.

barbult

AllenArt said:

daveso said:

where do i find the expressions or FACS within DS?

The expressions are in the usual areas (you can find them all if you choose the root of the figure) and choose the posing tab. There isn't any FACS yet for G9 that I'm aware of. That said, the FACS slider under the figure parameters should be on if you want to see all the skin folds and stuff with your expressions :). Otherwise, they'll look quite bland.

I didn't know anything about an FACS slider. Thanks for this revelation.

AllenArt

barbult said:

AllenArt said:

daveso said:

where do i find the expressions or FACS within DS?

The expressions are in the usual areas (you can find them all if you choose the root of the figure) and choose the posing tab. There isn't any FACS yet for G9 that I'm aware of. That said, the FACS slider under the figure parameters should be on if you want to see all the skin folds and stuff with your expressions :). Otherwise, they'll look quite bland.

I didn't know anything about an FACS slider. Thanks for this revelation.

  I put all those sliders in that block on.

Kerya

AllenArt said:

barbult said:

AllenArt said:

daveso said:

where do i find the expressions or FACS within DS?

The expressions are in the usual areas (you can find them all if you choose the root of the figure) and choose the posing tab. There isn't any FACS yet for G9 that I'm aware of. That said, the FACS slider under the figure parameters should be on if you want to see all the skin folds and stuff with your expressions :). Otherwise, they'll look quite bland.

I didn't know anything about an FACS slider. Thanks for this revelation.

  I put all those sliders in that block on.

 

Thank you very, very much!

nonesuch00

MallenLane said:

There is a bit of confusion about what FACS is. Facial Action Coding System was created by behavioral researchers as a psychology tool to break down the regions of facial movements that add up to a recognizable expression. So, as a basic example, if you add eye squint, mouth smile, and cheek flex together you get a full face smile. FACS units are those individual dials, anything else, a face harness/power pose etc are just rigs to interact with the FACS units.

G8.1 list of Units followed pretty strictly to the FACS Units indicated in Apples ARKIT spec for mocap. There is generally a 1:1 match to their spec and a couple added. It's a fairly limited list however.

The changes made for G9 were to still adhere to that spec, to add more, or to change existing ones so they are more flexible.

The result is that there are a lot of new Units that didn't exist in 8.1:

• Such as lips sticky (meant to be animated as the mouth opens to represent lip skin contact delay) but also things like swallow, and a host of smaller tweaking controls.
• And many of the existing ARKIT standard units are broken up into smaller units for flexibility. Mouth funnel for example, broken into upper/lower/left/right quadrants. Or brow movements broken into more directions. Of lips pucker changed to be two components, compression to the teeth vs forward movement  This allows you to take those basic movements and create more complex or assymmetrical movements.
• The G8.1 Units had HD shaping built into their sculpting. For G9 the Units have a seperate set of HD details that work as a layer over the standard units. This allows you to control the intensity of the details that get added. Maybe you are doing a cartoon and you don't want wrinkles to the brow raise. Or a monster with  scales where general movement would be more appropriate than detail changes. It adds flexibility. 

Generally speaking the number of movement Units has doubled from G8.1. It was somewhere past 100, and is now somewhere past 200 for G9.

So that sounds like the FACS rig is now too dense with controls to effectively use on the floating FACS controller as we had before.

(deleted dupe post)

MallenLane

I wouldn't come to that conclusion, no.