Do up look forward to new generations or do you dread them?
Drogo Nazhur
Posts: 1,155
in The Commons
I, personally, dread new generations because that means that the current generation will see less and less stuff being released for it.
It has already started, with G9 coming out, I am seeing less things for G8 and I haven't seen anything for G3 and G2 in YEARS.
PS: I would purchase new characters in G2 & G3
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Personally, I look forward to them. Part of my interest in technology, art, food, literature, etc. is due to my enjoyment in seeing innovation. I vaguely understand that people have favorite characters and they feel awkard using them in scenes with characters of newer generations but I think of it more like real life where you may have a friend or two from elementary school but you probably have friends that you ment less than five years ago. There is this creepy thing where pet owners describe their pet as their "baby"; we have been blessed with enough additions to our family to spot the difference. By definition, a pet is supposed to be static. They may have small changes between puppy to adult dog but the differences are small and they have the same requirements and dependences. A child, on the other hand, starts out completely dependent and end up almost completely independent. Likewise, i love seeing the different strategies that make the various Daz generations look more and more realistic. I have something of every generation since I have been here since before Victoria 1 in the Posette days. I even render older generations. Technology needs to grow and artistry needs to grow and change.
Equal parts both, to be honest.
When there's a new generation figure, there's always something that I think is an improvement over pervious generations.
But I mostly render male characters, and it's just a market inevitability that male characters and content takes a back seat to stuff for female characters. I know there will be less offered for me to buy, and what clothing is offered can often be on par with Michael 4 clothing. Plus with G9, I'm dealing with issues in a mesh that's been optimized for a female figure (ie the ample bosom.)
But adversity can push creativity, and I always want to get better.
When I am going to look forward to Genesis 9, it will already have to be dusted off a bit. Genesis 8/8.1 outfits do not seem to work too well, especially footwear. Until there is a vast enough selection of G9 products available, I am afraid Vicky 9 is going to hibernate in my library.
I'm working on a G9 male face right now and I have to admit - it looks like a real person and it's creepin' me out a little. LOL
I might look forward to them, I might not. (I was totally disappointed with Genesis 2. The split gender felt like a downgrade. Didn't care for Genesis 3.) Was pleasantly surprised by Genesis 8, and 8.1 was another pleasant surprise. And now, I had looked forward to Genesis 9 as soon as it was revealed to be a single base again.
I don't see anything there is to dread, nor do I really see past figures becoming obsolete, since they serve their purpose for me. If I don't like a figure, I just don't buy anything for it.
A bit of both.
I look forward to possible technology advances of a new generation, but I don't look forward to the investment that is typically required to enjoy using the new generation.
IMHO, each generation so far has had enough improvements for me to move forward with them. Usually though it's a gradual movement, being rather picky about what I purchase and only getting things that are different or a true upgrade over the previous versions. I also often wait for later (better) sales rather than getting things on initial release (except for the new Victoria, and the morphs/shapes, and maybe a piece or two of clothing). This helps to reduce the cost of upgrading. But yes, in general I do look forward to new generations.
I guess it depends on what you are looking for in a figure. I didn't like G1 but did like G3. But I have invested most in G8 (not 8.1) and am loath to start investing in another generation that seems to me to be a re-hash of G1. I don't like the G9 basic mesh or the fact that HD now carries most of the weight of making it look realistic. I have followed the other thread (the "Train" thread) and I get the distinct impression that G9 is a step backwards. Perhaps that's just the way I'm sensing the mood but there does seem to be a lot of "not getting on that train" comments.
So I'm looking forward to the next generation which will probably take advantage of the advances to be introduced in DS5 and give us something to really get excited about. Well, one can hope.
I love advances in technology
& also don't have to have the latest toy and enjoy repurposing old things
the latest G9 bundles look awesome but I have a huge 3D wardrobe too
there will be other sales and paydays which are more than my electricity bill
While I do agree with a portion the problem is is that we make our products by what people are buying and that is typically the newest generation. There is probably going to still be releases for Gen 8 and 8.1 for some time. We can't feasibly support something that is only gonna pay for 1 weeks worth of work and expenses when it took a month or longer to make. We can't survive or pay bills with that lol. Luckily I do props and environments. They are always in demand.
I always look forward to new stuff.
Genesis 8's been around for way too long.
I am always looking forward to new Generations.
Just because G9 is out now does not mean I can not use previous Generations any more :)
I have SO Many products in my Libraries for each Generation and some of them not even used yet, so I do not run low on products for the older Generations.
The only one who dreads new Generations is my hubby, as he knows it will cost to get the new Generation dressed nice.
Funny, I really am OVER THE MOON that Daz gone back to Uni mesh. I LOVED that with Genesis.
But everyone has a different taste in things.
I hope you can warm up to G9.
I think she is great, so the launch was not.
...OK one feature of G9 I like is returning to the unimesh particularly as with female bases I am not stuck with a default bust size that when reduced tends to distort and affect clothing fits (on more petite characters I have to forego textures with stripes plaids and other such patterns so a number of my characters end up in fairly "plain" clothing). Another plus I will admit is some resource content will only need one version instead of two alike with the release of Zev0'sGrowing Up for G9 morphs (hoping there will finally be a cross gender Skin Builder9 that will work with both genders as previous versions were only for the females
OK that said.
I am in the dreading camp for a few reasons:
Cost: Having been part of the "low wage" sector of the economy and for the last 5 years on a fixed pension, I had was not one to spend "willy-nilly" on the latest now "shiny" but instead purchase items I would use and that fit the genre I preferred (the latter is why I rarely purchased pro and starter bundles) . With the old timetable of 2 years between Genesis updates I would just about et everything i needed for character design only to see the next generation appear. That's a big expense particularly when you have to buy M and F versions of everything including merchant resources, scripts, and plugins.
Time: I have a stable of set characters of my own custom design (I rarely if ever use a character/figure out of the box unless it's one like Sadie, The Girl, and AIko3 (sadly, Aiko lost her "adorableness over all the updates and appeared to become more "westernised" - in the store promo for A8, she reminds me more of Mary Ann from Gilligan's Island). True other anime dolls took her place but she was probably the best supported of all of Gen3. Back to the original theme here, having to rebuild characters from or scratch every new generation is a huge and sometimes thankless time investment. It's like trying to exactly reproduce a drawing or painting you did years earlier which never comes out the exactly the same ( or sometimes even close). For example, my "star" character, Leela, has undergone a metamorphosis over the years since I first created her on V4/S4 to what I have using G3 I recently sat down and worked up version of her with G8 (though still a WIP as I'm missing some resource content)
As alluded to above is the question of will the same resources and dedicated plugins be available with the new generation and if some aren't, what are the workarounds? Part of the reason I was so hesitant with G8 (besides the cost) was the fact one of the most important tools I have, GenX2, had its end of the line with G3 as the PA passed on and no on picked up the torch. Zev0s Xtransfer transfers standard morphs, not custom or HD presets. Also it is only compatible with G3.
With G9 now in the store, more and more G8 content is going on sale (I even found some in the Daz+ For A Day sale earlier this month) including resource content, so I've been slowly adding what I need as prices for G8 content becomes more friendly to my budget.
Like a lot of people it's 50/50.
I'm partially in this to see new technology and innovation. What I dread is becoming like so many of the Poser users (no shade meant to people who user Poser) who are still fawning for V4/M4 like it's the bee's knees and can't see past it and refuse to move.
I don't agree with every change on every generation, or that every change was an improvement. But in general I feel each generation does move the ball forward. I'm a bit more hesistant this time around with G9 because while I see good new stuff (conforming eyes and mouth), the bends I've seen have not impressed me at all and feels like a step back. Genesis 1 was was supposedly abandoned because it was too hard maintaining all the different possible shapes and what not with clothing. I'm not sure what magic thing has been fixed to make this all work now (I'm dubious). That said, the technology is new and who knows what it will look like in a year.
On the other hand, I do enjoy a bit of a stability. G8 being around as long as it did allowed many new inventions to come forth, like the FACS system and others. I also felt it was a better investment, and the length of time it's been around has given me a lot of chances to learn more and grow my skills on the tech side with JCM's and making clothing in MD and other things. Things I probably would not have done if I was on the old "it's two years, throw out the old stuff and redo everything again.". Stability can lead to curiosity with the right minds and then to innovation.
I don't look forward or dread them either too much, but I dread companies that release new versions of their stuff without real backwards compatibility, as that looks to me as an attempt to just force their customers more money for functionalities they already have, but can't use them with new products anymore, and with this invalidating it for the present. In some areas of the industry this would never work - imagine a company with photo cameras without that bayonet lock for the lenses... they wouldn't sell that well.. - unless that company has a kind of monopoly on the market.
On the other hand the customers have alway the option to show their opinion by using their purses... you don't like some company marketing strategies, don't buy from them... saves a lot of frustration, too.
As others have said I am in the 50/50 leagure as well.
New stuff is always great if you have the need for it. I used to be all excited for new base figures, but for me one getting older and two having so much content, a lot of which I am just mixed about G9.
Usually I am looking foreward to new generations, for having the potential of improvements and bringing new ideas and influences.
Sad to say, that G9 really looks like a disapointment as some features look highly unreasonable.
I really don't like this unisex approach and I think the mesh topology is just bad by not going for edge loops, that support human organic shapes.
Genesis 2 had infact the best mesh topology of all Genesis figures.
BTW:
Just to make that clear. When I say, that I don't like Unisex base figures, I mean that it is a bad Idea to ONE base figure for both, male and female characters.
It would have also be possible to have a base femele and a base male with identical mesh geometry, to make it possible to morph one ino the other, like we know from Michael 1/2 and Stephanie 1.
that would have been a much better way to do it.
So No, G9 is not what I hoped for. Do better next time.
Now having big hopes on Genesis 10 and looking foreward to it.
Do I dread new generations? No. When I had Poser 4 I actively looked forward to V3 and then V4 due to the character improvements. Unfortunately V4 was a step too far for my machine and it couldn't cope.
Coming back to DS during G8's domination of the rendering, that was such an unbelievable improvement over V4 that I couldn't imagine complaining. G8.1... so similar there was nothing to fear or look forward to. In fact I regarded G8.1 with a great deal of indifference.
G9. Hmm. Fantastic face. The rest of the body - I only have V9 not any of the morph packs - seems quite like V4 to me. A bit soft and fleshy, as if the jcm's are not as well thought through as with G8 due to so much concentrated effort going into the head. However, I regard that as a provisional conclusion based on insufficient information for a definitive conclusion, and with more and better experience, my opinion may change.
So, in conclusion, I have looked forward to a new gen before, but maybe not entirely this time.
Regards,
Richard.
I think if we could skip the six months to a year wait for all the tools to come out, like pose converters, shape converters, all of those wonderful Zev0 and Riversoft tools, and a decent set of characters from Mousso, SASE and so on, I would be delighted. But right now - completely stopped buying anything G8 related, and not buying any G9 content as there isn't really anything. So I am now very frustrated. Sure, I carry on messing around with G8, knowing that it is obsolete, but somehow I've lost motivation. Irrational? Sure.
This is how i feel too... very often it's the purchase of a new item that inspires a weekend of rendering but now I'm stuck in limbo eagerly waiting for something new that has to fit a new set of criteria... its got to be something that i couldn't easily do with my huge library of gen 8 which boils down to items which will look better than anything i currently have in a close up render of the face... oh (and i shouldn't have to say this) but it has to work or at the very least be usable!
I for one have no issue with new tech replacing the old… I mean, that's the entire point of continually looking to improve the tech that drives this industry, and our hobby, is it not?
Old tech will always get replaced, that's the nature of this industry as there is no such thing as an antique program, and it is not driven/determined by the wants and wishes of 3D hobbyists, it's driven/determined by artists/creators actively working in the industry that is pushing it forward…
There's really no reason to panic when a new character is released, particularly G9 as no one if forcing you away from G8, as even G1 clothing is 100% compatible with this model, so there's no reason to worry so much as your extensive genesis library can still be used with G9!
As far as poses are concerned, who really needs a pose pack when you can pose them yourself? I mean, the entire program is built behind this concept after all!
Not looking forward, nor dreading*. It's all about what does the new generation have to offer.
*With what they came up with G9, I might be dreading, what are they coming up with G10...
Personally, I'm just waiting for the variety of clothing converters, pose converters, skin maps, figure utilities, and morph packs I need to port my G8s to G9s, then I'll make the jump.
I don't mind new generations of things as long as the old generation isn't tossed out the window completely, and as long as it's possible to mix and match generations whilst easing into the future.
(Looking at you, Apple...)
For me G9 has strong potential, but admittedly the joint bends are lacking and the lack of flexion morphs is disappointing, yet I will wait 'til KHImage comes out with their bend morphs before I use it exclusively, just as I've done with every other character post G1.
As far as the UV and the like, it's much tougher to properly create morphs due to the artist needing knowledge with artistic anatomy in order for the morphs to be accurate and believable, as the UV does not have the musculature and the like outlined within the UV unlike previous versions, so people have to rely more on their skill with anatomy rather than following the outlines.
I suppose they did this as they wanted to focus the character for content creators and PAs as much as for the hobbyist, and the UV are now are much more freed up for the sculptor to work with… I see it as just removing the stencil, so artists can create more with their skill instead of being pigeonholed into the stencil, my 2 cents, anyway.
There are sliders to turn on flexion AND joint correctives which are off by default when loading.
Well, well, well, this is a surprise, glad to know I was wrong about that, as this is a boon; thanks to this new info I may be replacing G8.1 sooner than I thought, still waiting for the KHImage morphs before full adoption, but it's still an excellent base for character creation! ;)
@AllenArt Thank you for mentioning this here and in another thread. And thanks for your Head Games thread too! You're doing a great job.
Yes and no.
There's the conversion of characters - Which I don't enjoy doing. It's having to start all over again in regards to morphs - Well, lack of them. And the thought of having to fork out for new clothing assets.
Other than that... Yay! New a new generation of Genesis charaters!
I'm glad Genesis 9 is here. Mada says Michael 9 is her favourite ever Daz character; so, I'm excited to see/use him. My working plan for Genesis 9 is to purchase only Core Figures and bluejaunte for the first year. If feasible, Genesis 9 will be my lead actor, and Genesis 8/3 will be my supporting cast. I have everything I need for Genesis 8/8.1 other than an Eye Outer Corner Smooth morph to get rid of the crease that happens when head morphs converge.
I am looking forward to the M9 release yes :)
Please note - if G9 loads with flexions and joint correctives off there is something wrong with your G9 install. The figure should load with it activated. If you use Zero Figure it will reset the correctives to zero. Use Restore Figure instead, and I use Zero Pose or Zero Morphs as well.
The joints correctives was changed to a percentage slider on G9 so users would have more control over the strength of things, rather than simply on/off. One really cool benefit of having the corrective dial as a slider is you can dial the strength up and down. For a tall character you want all the bends at full strength, but for a shorter custom made character being able to dial down the intensity of the correction is very useful :)