What becomes of delisted items?

vrba79vrba79 Posts: 1,432
PwToon came up in discussion again, and it got me reflecting on what a shame it is that those who didn't already buy it can no longer legally obtain it. Is that stuff just lost to time, or will we see them pop up on the freebie page eventually?

Comments

  • That would be up to Daz, though I would suspect that an old 3Delight shader might be an unlikely rerelease.

  • vrba79vrba79 Posts: 1,432
    That's a shame, because it still works just fine.
  • TorquinoxTorquinox Posts: 3,569
    edited November 2022

    That's really weird! We still find https://www.daz3d.com/pw-shaders-bundle with a promo pic that includes PWToon and PWeffect, but neither are listed as part of the bundle.

    Post edited by Torquinox on
  • TorquinoxTorquinox Posts: 3,569

    Now I feel like I should start using them.

  • AlmightyQUESTAlmightyQUEST Posts: 2,005
    edited November 2022

    I know I've asked in the past in the forums if that bundle actually includes those two, and if they are just missing links because they aren't in the store. I don't believe I've gotten an answer before from somehow who owns the bundle. I hesitate to suggest people who are looking for the shader buy the bundle at that price if it might not be included, even if they can return it.

     

    I love pwToon, I lost track of the vendor when I wasn't doing any 3D stuff for several years, so not sure what all happened.

    Post edited by AlmightyQUEST on
  • vrba79vrba79 Posts: 1,432
    Wish someone could secure the rights to it, if the author has abandoned it.
  • TorquinoxTorquinox Posts: 3,569

    I never bought the bundle. I have all 5 components, though. Maybe if/when Daz runs a "buy the bundle for the price of missing items" promo, I can try that. Then the bundle page in my Product Library would show the included items.

  • NorthOf45NorthOf45 Posts: 5,533

    I got that bundle years ago when all the parts were still available. pwToon and pwEffect still show in my Product Library, but they do not show as being part of the bundle anymore. The other parts, pwSurface 2, pwGhost and pwCatch are still there. It is too bad, 3DL shaders are few and far between, despite these still working pretty well. Yeah, there are some warnings, but renders come out...

  • vrba79vrba79 Posts: 1,432
    edited November 2022
    What makes PwToon's fate so unfortunate, is that nothing else does what it does, as well as it does. No offense intended to the authors of products like VSS, Sketchy Toon, etc, but PwToon is in a league of its own.
    Post edited by vrba79 on
  • TorquinoxTorquinox Posts: 3,569
    edited November 2022

    NorthOf45 said:

    I got that bundle years ago when all the parts were still available. pwToon and pwEffect still show in my Product Library, but they do not show as being part of the bundle anymore. The other parts, pwSurface 2, pwGhost and pwCatch are still there. It is too bad, 3DL shaders are few and far between, despite these still working pretty well. Yeah, there are some warnings, but renders come out...

    Good to know and saves me the trouble. Too bad it's bad news for people who want pwtoon and haven't got it. Also too bad 3DL is treated like the unwanted stepchild. At least it still works for those who use it.

    Post edited by Torquinox on
  • ArtAngelArtAngel Posts: 1,782

    vrba79 said:

    PwToon came up in discussion again, and it got me reflecting on what a shame it is that those who didn't already buy it can no longer legally obtain it. Is that stuff just lost to time, or will we see them pop up on the freebie page eventually?

    All good things come to an end, which is why it sometimes pays to be a Daz hoarder. Love love love this set.heartheartheart

  • vrba79vrba79 Posts: 1,432
    edited November 2022

    Yeah. I mean those of us who already own it are golden, but everyone else is SOL, and that just doesn't sit well with me. Its like stuff on the Wii Ware shop when Nintendo closed it down.

    Post edited by vrba79 on
  • ArtAngelArtAngel Posts: 1,782

    vrba79 said:

    Yeah. I mean those of us who already own it are golden, but everyone else is SOL, and that just doesn't sit well with me. Its like stuff on the Wii Ware shop when Nintendo closed it down.

    But that is how marketing works. The 1970's fashion gets obsolete and replaced by the 80's and then the 90's ... fast forward to cyberpunk pink. It is how busnisesses thrive and survive. Without new products replacing old products the product pool regresses to a stagnant swamp. Fresh is good.

  • vrba79vrba79 Posts: 1,432
    edited November 2022

    Ah, but you can go to say, a goodwill or a specialty shop and still buy some old pants from the 70s. When something digital goes away, its gone gone. I think digital things should be preserved in some form or another, if they're not going to ever be sold again.

    Post edited by vrba79 on
  • xyer0xyer0 Posts: 6,018

    ArtAngel said:

    vrba79 said:

    Yeah. I mean those of us who already own it are golden, but everyone else is SOL, and that just doesn't sit well with me. Its like stuff on the Wii Ware shop when Nintendo closed it down.

    But that is how marketing works. The 1970's fashion gets obsolete and replaced by the 80's and then the 90's ... fast forward to cyberpunk pink. It is how busnisesses thrive and survive. Without new products replacing old products the product pool regresses to a stagnant swamp. Fresh is good.

    Have you noticed how men's hairstyles today are the exact same as the hairstyles of the 1920s?

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 9,971
    edited November 2022

    I grabbed the bundle about 9 months ago during the huge bundle sale where DAZ offered bundles for the price of the items you were missing only.  I picked a lot of bundles for free since I already owned all the items for these, to avoid seeing them in the store anymore as well as for documentation for having the complete bundles, and this one was one of the free ones meaning I already owned all the items. 

    They're all still in my library but the bundle page there only lists the three products shown on the current product page, and only these have had their purchase date updated in my library, so I guess they're not included in the bundle anymore.

    But I managed to track down the PA at LinkedIn, so you could try to contact her:

    https://www.linkedin.com/in/pam-gray-6601a75/

     

     

    pw-shader-bundle.png
    1041 x 736 - 176K
    Post edited by Taoz on
  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 18,288
    edited November 2022

    I think the pwToon & pwEffect were never DAZ Originals, and that they were still owned by the original PA. I own both but I can't check the PA data in the DAZ Store anymore. I think it may of been Poseworks also, same as the other pwShader products.

    I see Taoz already tracked down to PA.

    Post edited by nonesuch00 on
  • NorthOf45NorthOf45 Posts: 5,533

    They were DAZ Originals before disappearing, so you can bet they were bought out. DAZ has been known to shelve products that cause them too many problems, and are not worth the effort to correct, especially older ones. I can think of several where a solution was well-known but the products were pulled anyway. Then again, they continue to sell products that are known to be broken. Maybe someone was having a bad day, or someone didn't care. It's all about the bottom line, but no sale is no sale.

  • vrba79vrba79 Posts: 1,432
    edited November 2022

    It again begs the question: If they're not gonna sell it, why not just release it as-is in a "Here it's free, but don't bother us for tech support, if/when it stops working, okay?" kind of way. Because the first thing people ask me when they see my PwToon renders is "Wow, which shader is that?", and then I gotta tell them "Sorry, they don't sell that any more!"

    Post edited by vrba79 on
  • ArtAngelArtAngel Posts: 1,782

    xyer0 said:

    ArtAngel said:

    vrba79 said:

    Yeah. I mean those of us who already own it are golden, but everyone else is SOL, and that just doesn't sit well with me. Its like stuff on the Wii Ware shop when Nintendo closed it down.

    But that is how marketing works. The 1970's fashion gets obsolete and replaced by the 80's and then the 90's ... fast forward to cyberpunk pink. It is how busnisesses thrive and survive. Without new products replacing old products the product pool regresses to a stagnant swamp. Fresh is good.

    Have you noticed how men's hairstyles today are the exact same as the hairstyles of the 1920s?

    Yes. Life is a circle. What goes around comes around.
  • nemesis10nemesis10 Posts: 3,488

    My sister would laugh; she worked for several major museums and you should see people's eyes light up when she explained what deaccessioning was.  Even Amazon doesn't store everything.  They act as a broker for a bunch of smaller stores and that small store with have the vhs head cleaner if you are lucky.

  • TorquinoxTorquinox Posts: 3,569

    Obsolescence, lost work, lost software are all part of the digital deal. Not right, not fair, but that's how it goes. Technology is a treadmill that never stops runnning. Eventually, we all get thrown off the back.

  • ArtAngelArtAngel Posts: 1,782

    nemesis10 said:

    My sister would laugh; she worked for several major museums and you should see people's eyes light up when she explained what deaccessioning was.  Even Amazon doesn't store everything.  They act as a broker for a bunch of smaller stores and that small store with have the vhs head cleaner if you are lucky.

    Deaccessioning . . . another word for divorce (big grin)
  • TaozTaoz Posts: 9,971
    edited November 2022

    NorthOf45 said:

    They were DAZ Originals before disappearing, so you can bet they were bought out.

    Yes, that seems to be correct - I've got an old copy of the product page and that does say "DAZ Originals, Poseworks".

    Post edited by Taoz on
  • TaozTaoz Posts: 9,971

    vrba79 said:

    Ah, but you can go to say, a goodwill or a specialty shop and still buy some old pants from the 70s. When something digital goes away, its gone gone. I think digital things should be preserved in some form or another, if they're not going to ever be sold again.

    +1 

  • All the talk about storage space and clearing shelves to make room for new products doesn't really make sense when we're talking about digital products. I don't get what is gained out of telling people they shouldn't be wishing a product was still available. I don't expect it to come back, but it's still a shame. Gotta think about either taking down or adding a note to my presets.
    nemesis10 said:

    My sister would laugh; she worked for several major museums and you should see people's eyes light up when she explained what deaccessioning was.  Even Amazon doesn't store everything.  They act as a broker for a bunch of smaller stores and that small store with have the vhs head cleaner if you are lucky.

    Eh, I just get my video head cleaner from a local place and save the hassle.
  • AlmightyQUEST said:

    All the talk about storage space and clearing shelves to make room for new products doesn't really make sense when we're talking about digital products. I don't get what is gained out of telling people they shouldn't be wishing a product was still available. I don't expect it to come back, but it's still a shame. Gotta think about either taking down or adding a note to my presets.

    Older products may cause cibnfusion in search results, however, or may be felt to be a poor reflection of the maker's current output. I think some people did in fact report issues with pwToon, affecting the line weights as I recall, so it may have been removed for that.

    nemesis10 said:

    My sister would laugh; she worked for several major museums and you should see people's eyes light up when she explained what deaccessioning was.  Even Amazon doesn't store everything.  They act as a broker for a bunch of smaller stores and that small store with have the vhs head cleaner if you are lucky.

    Eh, I just get my video head cleaner from a local place and save the hassle.
  • TorquinoxTorquinox Posts: 3,569

    I spent some time doing tests last night. I can only say, as a fan of 3DL rendering, the PW shader series is still pretty cool and still works quite well.

  • vrba79vrba79 Posts: 1,432
    edited November 2022

    Right? I did a G9 render with PwToon last night. Really nice clean results. Its the best toon shader ever made, and if Daz3D isn't gonna preserve it, then people will just have to think outside the box. Take that statement as you will.

    Post edited by vrba79 on
  • AlmightyQUEST said:

    All the talk about storage space and clearing shelves to make room for new products doesn't really make sense when we're talking about digital products. I don't get what is gained out of telling people they shouldn't be wishing a product was still available. I don't expect it to come back, but it's still a shame. Gotta think about either taking down or adding a note to my presets.

    Older products may cause cibnfusion in search results, however, or may be felt to be a poor reflection of the maker's current output. I think some people did in fact report issues with pwToon, affecting the line weights as I recall, so it may have been removed for that.

    nemesis10 said:

    My sister would laugh; she worked for several major museums and you should see people's eyes light up when she explained what deaccessioning was.  Even Amazon doesn't store everything.  They act as a broker for a bunch of smaller stores and that small store with have the vhs head cleaner if you are lucky.

    Eh, I just get my video head cleaner from a local place and save the hassle.
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