Animations - Questions

Expozures

So, I think I've gotten to the stage where I'm looking at dabbling in animations.  Does anyone have any experience with this?  The Daz animations seem ok, but a lot of them seem kind of limited for some of the things I want to do.  Looking around for stuff like importing to Blender, Unreal, Unity seems to have some sparse information on it.  There's lots of tutorials for those, but how do I go about getting my character from Daz into Unity to start animating it?  I've tried some importing into Blender, but the characters come out chromatic and rigged all wrong and I just threw up my hands.

I'm a techy guy, and I can learn pretty quick...but I also get frustrated quick. :)

Anyone have any suggestions on where I can go to learn about properly importing Daz characters into other engines, and using other engines to animate...or have good suggestions of places where I can find a wide variety of mocap animations, or experience with using canned poses etc to create animations.

Feeling a smidge overwhelmed.

benniewoodell

Don't know about Unity, but with Blender, go and download Diffeomorphic. With that use easy import and set up the rig to be Rigify and you will be able to animate perfectly. I'm sure there's an easy way to get blender animations into Unity, I just don't have any experience with that. If you go to the Blender forum section, there's a whole thread on Diffeomorphic. And importing through Diffeo, your characters will have the correct textures. There's three options on the easy import, each has it's own pros and cons so you just have to experiment and find which suits your needs, but they all look good. Happy animating! 

Timotheus

I'm going to be checking out Cascadeur for animating, but I have no idea yet how it works with Daz. Haven't had a chance to get into it. Here are a couple of links to check out....

https://blog.daz3d.com/create-animations-for-your-daz-characters-with-cascadeur/

https://cascadeur.com/blog/general/how-to-animate-daz3d-characters-with-cascadeur-tutorial

 

tfis

It depends on what kind of animation you want to do.
 

Expozures

tfis said:

It depends on what kind of animation you want to do.

Well, I'm thinking to start off, I just want to do snippets.  Been playing around with making music videos.  The Instagram character I created is an amateur model.

Other problem is...I can't dance, so choreographing is difficult.

Gordig

Timotheus said:

I'm going to be checking out Cascadeur for animating, but I have no idea yet how it works with Daz. Haven't had a chance to get into it. Here are a couple of links to check out....

https://blog.daz3d.com/create-animations-for-your-daz-characters-with-cascadeur/

https://cascadeur.com/blog/general/how-to-animate-daz3d-characters-with-cascadeur-tutorial

I've been dubbed the resident expert on Cascadeur, but I do my animating in C4D rather than DS. I've made a couple animations in Cascadeur that kind of freaked out when I tried to import them to DS, though I haven't tried enough to say how consistently it works.

WendyLuvsCatz

the people who use MikuMikuDance animations might be more what you want but they render mostly in Blender

I haven't seen too many good ones imported into DAZ studio except by this person 

https://youtube.com/@ranxian6649

who is

https://www.daz3d.com/forums/profile/2451905/butaixianran

Expozures

Thanks, gang!  I'll check out those youtube videos

TheMysteryIsThePoint

If you are going for any kind of realism, like cinematics, you would be doing yourself a tremendous favor if you stopped now and devoted time to learning Blender or some other animation app, and how to get DAZ content into it.

For several reasons, principally IK and no layers, it is very hard in DAZ Studio to perform even the simplest things an animator would want to do. Would need to do. DAZ Studio is, bar none, the best app there is for still shots. But it is also an extremely poor choice for animation. At every turn we are reminded that animation is simply not given any emphasis beyond the absolutely simplest kind.

Some might counter that it is possible to do quality animation in DAZ Studio and all point to the same one work they always do, but whether it were possible was never the question. Of course it is possible; it is just much harder, time-consuming, brain-numbing, and destructive (in terms of flexibility to undo things and to try something else).

Seriously. If you have any ambitions at all, don't try to animate in DAZ Studio. It will end in tears and frustration. Just make use of its best-in-class character creation capabilities and the incredibly talented PAs that make it shine, and then google "Diffeo DAZ Importer".

Expozures

Thanks.  Yeah, looking at some of the animation assets in Daz, it does seem kind of limited, and way too cartoony and animated for what I'm aiming for.  I mean, sure if I'm going for an over the top Sims style reaction or something...but that's not what I'm after.

I've seen some other content creators with some outstanding animations and keep thinking to myself, "It's time to step up your game."

windli3356

The animation tool in Daz is ok, able to acheive good result constantly if you keep things in small scale, and then tons of flaws

1. it's extremely SLOW (what can you do? it's iray) 

2. UI isn't user friendly, some basic function from other tools require numerous steps/clicks in DAZ

3. required to purchase 3rd party tools to make it more effient, for me, aniblock is a must buy, you can make tons small animation snip and connect them for different timeline and project based on your need. 

4. lack some barebone tools/resource for newbies to start with. 

I still love it regardless (and hating it at the same time)  

If you are a skilled artist who worked in blender/UE4/5/C4D etc before you probably should skip Daz, and if you have more money than time, try iClone8, if not Daz may have everything you wanted 

Expozures

windli3356 said:

If you are a skilled artist who worked in blender/UE4/5/C4D etc before you probably should skip Daz, and if you have more money than time, try iClone8, if not Daz may have everything you wanted 

Much thanks for the advice also.  I don't have any experience in UE/C4D or even Blender or Unity for that matter.  Maybe for now, I'll just keep at it with Daz, make take a look at what animate2 can do compared to animate lite and determine if it's worth it.  I also see that there's ways to import BVH and other mocap files into Daz...  Tried one, my model started hopping around like a robot-frog.  Not what I was after. LOL

NotAnArtist

Hi! I am in somewhat the same situation as Expozures, and I wonder if my question might help both of us. I have tried animating, but can barely get started. I often make mistakes (that can be very difficult to identify), which ruin whole sections of an animation. It really is brain-numbing, as TheMysteryIsThePoint described it.

So I'm curious if a person could animate a Blender character and export it to DS as a .bvh (I guess), to render with Daz characters, where they look their greatest - because it's their home;-)

If so, a person could create several animated "blocks", like aniBlocks. I'm thinking of specific actions that would be planned out from a story line.

Man, this would be a game-changer! I have ideas for clips, but they don't relate closely to aniBlocks or poses - at least without lots of awkward shifting of arms and legs and adjustments of timing, etc... Thanks for any info you folks might have.

TheMysteryIsThePoint

NotAnArtist said:

Hi! I am in somewhat the same situation as Expozures, and I wonder if my question might help both of us. I have tried animating, but can barely get started. I often make mistakes (that can be very difficult to identify), which ruin whole sections of an animation. It really is brain-numbing, as TheMysteryIsThePoint described it.

So I'm curious if a person could animate a Blender character and export it to DS as a .bvh (I guess), to render with Daz characters, where they look their greatest - because it's their home;-)

If so, a person could create several animated "blocks", like aniBlocks. I'm thinking of specific actions that would be planned out from a story line.

Man, this would be a game-changer! I have ideas for clips, but they don't relate closely to aniBlocks or poses - at least without lots of awkward shifting of arms and legs and adjustments of timing, etc... Thanks for any info you folks might have.

I'm working on just that, except via a live-link, i.e. no file formats... they are part of the problem. It's coming along well.

NotAnArtist

TheMysteryIsThePoint said:

I'm working on just that, except via a live-link, i.e. no file formats... they are part of the problem. It's coming along well.

This sounds interesting! In that, I don't have much of a clue what that means;-) Please keep us informed on your progress!
If my idea of simply creating the movements alone in Blender and using them on characters in DS are do-able, I think I should start some basic Blender study now... as if I had the time... but I'm motivated now.
Thank you very much for your response! Good luck with your plans!!

TheMysteryIsThePoint

NotAnArtist said:

TheMysteryIsThePoint said:

I'm working on just that, except via a live-link, i.e. no file formats... they are part of the problem. It's coming along well.

This sounds interesting! In that, I don't have much of a clue what that means;-) Please keep us informed on your progress!
If my idea of simply creating the movements alone in Blender and using them on characters in DS are do-able, I think I should start some basic Blender study now... as if I had the time... but I'm motivated now.
Thank you very much for your response! Good luck with your plans!!

@NotAnArtist

Hi

First things first: Yes, definitely start your Blender Learning Journey now... it won't be a trivial task, but I am confident that any person who likes to animate more than they like to complain about the world and software that is in it not being exactly as they would wish it, will be able to master it. I compare it to learning Mandarin: It's hard, no doubt, but 1.4 billion people have, and I've never heard of a mute chinese guy who just could not do it. See you on the other side :)

It means you'll run the new plugin in DS, and with one click in Blender, just enough of the character will be imported into Blender in order to do animation, i.e. the armature and the base res mesh. There's a script to "retarget" animations from supported rigs, and another to export it back to DS. That's it. No FBX, BVH, or any other file format that doesn't know what a G8 is, no obscure settings to remember to set (read: forget to set). It just works.

I think there are two keys for why this works well: 1) Blender is using precisely the same armature as DS, so no foot sliding, etc., and 2) Quaternions are used exclusively, so no weird flips at extreme angles.

While the character is in Blender, there's a G8 preset for Auto Rig Pro Quick Rig which puts a fully capable, professional IK rig onto the existing DS armature. That, together with the equally superb Animation Layers addon, is all you need for an animation environment almost as good as the one in Maya. I just can't seem to get this to bake automatically via script for importing back, so it currently must be done manually. I'll figure it out.

I was inspired to work on this because DAZ Studio is, still, the best character creation environment there is, IMHO. If I gripe about it a lot, it's because I'm passionate about this awesome program. Likewise, Blender is nearly the best at everything else, and at the rate it is going, it will overtake the industry leaders by 2025, when they complete the character animation initiative they've started.

 

NotAnArtist

TheMysteryIsThePoint said:

Hi

First things first: Yes, definitely start your Blender Learning Journey now... it won't be a trivial task, but I am confident that any person who likes to animate more than they like to complain about the world and software that is in it not being exactly as they would wish it, will be able to master it. I compare it to learning Mandarin: It's hard, no doubt, but 1.4 billion people have, and I've never heard of a mute chinese guy who just could not do it. See you on the other side :)

It means you'll run the new plugin in DS, and with one click in Blender, just enough of the character will be imported into Blender in order to do animation, i.e. the armature and the base res mesh. There's a script to "retarget" animations from supported rigs, and another to export it back to DS. That's it. No FBX, BVH, or any other file format that doesn't know what a G8 is, no obscure settings to remember to set (read: forget to set). It just works.

I think there are two keys for why this works well: 1) Blender is using precisely the same armature as DS, so no foot sliding, etc., and 2) Quaternions are used exclusively, so no weird flips at extreme angles.

While the character is in Blender, there's a G8 preset for Auto Rig Pro Quick Rig which puts a fully capable, professional IK rig onto the existing DS armature. That, together with the equally superb Animation Layers addon, is all you need for an animation environment almost as good as the one in Maya. I just can't seem to get this to bake automatically via script for importing back, so it currently must be done manually. I'll figure it out.

I was inspired to work on this because DAZ Studio is, still, the best character creation environment there is, IMHO. If I gripe about it a lot, it's because I'm passionate about this awesome program. Likewise, Blender is nearly the best at everything else, and at the rate it is going, it will overtake the industry leaders by 2025, when they complete the character animation initiative they've started.

 

OK, looking good. Long ago I created a spider web via a Blender tute. It was easy to do, just hard to remember since I seldom needed to go back to create more, so Hexagon remained my quicker go-to. I seldom need to model anything.

So apparently you won't be creating animation movements with a Blender character, which is what I was asking about. You'll use the Blender bridge and import a partial G8 character. Back to what I was hoping to avoid in a way, but maybe not necessary after all.

I took a quick look at Auto-Rig Pro. I could afford the $40 package if it actually helps towards my goals. And I see the Animation Layers addon costs $28, so it's time to do some research.

I recently spent an embarrassing amount of my retirement savings on a new machine, even though I built it myself, cutting corners along the way... so I'm apprehensive about even small things like this.

Good luck with your project and please keep the Daz community updated! Thanks for the information!

TheMysteryIsThePoint

NotAnArtist said:

TheMysteryIsThePoint said:

Hi

First things first: Yes, definitely start your Blender Learning Journey now... it won't be a trivial task, but I am confident that any person who likes to animate more than they like to complain about the world and software that is in it not being exactly as they would wish it, will be able to master it. I compare it to learning Mandarin: It's hard, no doubt, but 1.4 billion people have, and I've never heard of a mute chinese guy who just could not do it. See you on the other side :)

It means you'll run the new plugin in DS, and with one click in Blender, just enough of the character will be imported into Blender in order to do animation, i.e. the armature and the base res mesh. There's a script to "retarget" animations from supported rigs, and another to export it back to DS. That's it. No FBX, BVH, or any other file format that doesn't know what a G8 is, no obscure settings to remember to set (read: forget to set). It just works.

I think there are two keys for why this works well: 1) Blender is using precisely the same armature as DS, so no foot sliding, etc., and 2) Quaternions are used exclusively, so no weird flips at extreme angles.

While the character is in Blender, there's a G8 preset for Auto Rig Pro Quick Rig which puts a fully capable, professional IK rig onto the existing DS armature. That, together with the equally superb Animation Layers addon, is all you need for an animation environment almost as good as the one in Maya. I just can't seem to get this to bake automatically via script for importing back, so it currently must be done manually. I'll figure it out.

I was inspired to work on this because DAZ Studio is, still, the best character creation environment there is, IMHO. If I gripe about it a lot, it's because I'm passionate about this awesome program. Likewise, Blender is nearly the best at everything else, and at the rate it is going, it will overtake the industry leaders by 2025, when they complete the character animation initiative they've started.

 

OK, looking good. Long ago I created a spider web via a Blender tute. It was easy to do, just hard to remember since I seldom needed to go back to create more, so Hexagon remained my quicker go-to. I seldom need to model anything.

So apparently you won't be creating animation movements with a Blender character, which is what I was asking about. You'll use the Blender bridge and import a partial G8 character. Back to what I was hoping to avoid in a way, but maybe not necessary after all.

I took a quick look at Auto-Rig Pro. I could afford the $40 package if it actually helps towards my goals. And I see the Animation Layers addon costs $28, so it's time to do some research.

I recently spent an embarrassing amount of my retirement savings on a new machine, even though I built it myself, cutting corners along the way... so I'm apprehensive about even small things like this.

Good luck with your project and please keep the Daz community updated! Thanks for the information!

Hi again,

No, not exactly. The new plugin does not use the bridge at all. It is all new. You press a button and your character is in Blender, ready to animate with an IK rig. You do your animation, bake it, press another button, and your animation is back in DAZ Studio. It doesn't even attempt to do the more sophisticated things that either Diffeomorphic or DTB do because the assumption is that you'll import the animation back to DS and then export the complete character through some other means. I use Sagan, of course.

And maybe one of our resident experts,  @Wolf359 could chime in and offer his opinion as to whether ARP and Animation Layers are worth the money :)

But if your intention is to animate a non-DAZ character, then ARP, Animation Layers,  is all you need for high quality. Although, there are better riggers than ARP, like the Heat Diffusion addon.

 

NotAnArtist

TheMysteryIsThePoint said:

Hi again,

No, not exactly. The new plugin does not use the bridge at all. It is all new. You press a button and your character is in Blender, ready to animate with an IK rig. You do your animation, bake it, press another button, and your animation is back in DAZ Studio. It doesn't even attempt to do the more sophisticated things that either Diffeomorphic or DTB do because the assumption is that you'll import the animation back to DS and then export the complete character through some other means. I use Sagan, of course.

And maybe one of our resident experts,  @Wolf359 could chime in and offer his opinion as to whether ARP and Animation Layers are worth the money :)

But if your intention is to animate a non-DAZ character, then ARP, Animation Layers,  is all you need for high quality. Although, there are better riggers than ARP, like the Heat Diffusion addon.

 

And of course I don't know Sagan, either...
But I wouldn't be exporting a character. I'd be creating short animated clips, maybe a few animated gifs, and posting them for people to laugh at. That's about it.

I've written ideas for short clips and comic strips for decades, but never had the time nor tech to create them. Some of them are so old I don't even remember what the heck I was referring to.

This is very much just a personal thing! I intend to animate mostly DAZ characters, plus the amazing creatures created by Ken Gilliland, and also Hivewire3D. Plus, since I'm still a kid at heart, dinosaurs, monsters, etc!

So I'll keep a watch on your posts, hoping to learn more. Lots for me to study meanwhile. Still trying to get my new system properly set up.
I look forward to seeing how your plans work out, because I haven't heard about that technique until now. Cheers!