Too glossy, how to dial it back?

Debutstudios

Hola,

Currently trying to do a superhero, but as attachment shows...everyone of them look like they are wearing vinyl rubber suits.

I've had this problem alot and just moved on to other characters, but it's driving me crazy. How, oh please someone tell me, do you get rid of the obnixous shininess?

Thanks,

Jim

debutstudios.com

mjc1016

What software and which renderer?

jestmart

And which shader?

mjc1016

jestmart said:

And which shader?

Yeah...that too...

=====

All three are needed because it's not the same way of controlling, in everything.

Debutstudios

Well, it's DAZ 4.8 using the Iray...Michael 6 and Gen2 suits both render same way. Too glossy, not good looking n the slightest.

mjc1016

Since it's Iray did you apply the Iray shader to them (I don't think they have Iray presets...but if they do, did you use those) or are you relying on an autoconversion?

 

Debutstudios

I'm obviously way out of my league here as I don't know what the Iray shader is.

mjc1016

In your Content (Content Library or Smart Content...either one should work), there will be a Shader Presets.  In there is a Iray shader, Iray Uber Base...applying it (can't remember if you need to hold down ctl when clicking it or not) will convert the surfaces to the base Iray surfaces. 

JD_Mortal

Try going to the "Surfaces" window, when selecting the suit in the "Scene" window.

Find "Gloss" and "Reflect", and turn those values down for that material. You can also bump-up diffuse and specular, or reduce them, to tune the suits material. (There may be a few materials listed for the outfit.) If there are "images" that enhance the "Reflect", or "Specular", they may be over-exaggerated. For that "wet superhero buffed-plastic latex look" that all wet buffed-plastic latex-wearing superheros have...

Also, your lights, if you added any, think about removing them when using iray, or dialing them down. Iray has environment lights that work great for most purposes. If you use a GPS to figure-out latitude and longitude and set the correct time of day and season of the year, and date. xD. Adding the normal DAZ lights will cause an undesired "stacking" of light-rendering, leading to over-blasted light values. (Exaggerated in shine and bump-maps and specular and diffuse, old-code.)

This includes the "Camera light", if you use a camera. (The Iray settings have an option to turn-off those lights, if you NEED to use the DAZ default lights which are more tuned for screenGL rendering and DLight. You can make them work, but it is a challenge as none of the values represent anything realistic and they have no similar representation from one light to the next.)

Honestly looks more like the over-burned "environment reflection/glow", I see the blue skies in there.

mjc1016

JD_Mortal said:

Try going to the "Surfaces" window, when selecting the suit in the "Scene" window.

Find "Gloss" and "Reflect", and turn those values down for that material. You can also bump-up diffuse and specular, or reduce them, to tune the suits material. (There may be a few materials listed for the outfit.) If there are "images" that enhance the "Reflect", or "Specular", they may be over-exaggerated. For that "wet superhero buffed-plastic latex look" that all wet buffed-plastic latex-wearing superheros have...

Also, your lights, if you added any, think about removing them when using iray, or dialing them down. Iray has environment lights that work great for most purposes. Adding the normal DAZ lights will cause an undesired "stacking" of light-rendering, leading to over-blasted light values. (Exaggerated in shine and bump-maps and specular and diffuse, old-code.)

This includes the "Camera light", if you use a camera. (The Iray settings have an option to turn-off those lights, if you NEED to use the DAZ default lights which are more tuned for screenGL rendering and DLight. You can make them work, but it is a challange as none of the values represent anyting realistic and they have no similar representation from one light to the next.)

First, the Iray settings ARE NOT the same as the 3Delight settings.  So without the actual Iray shader being applied, it's pointless to start adjusting things.

Second, lights...wrong.  The lights are context 'aware'.  They will be the proper light settings for the selected renderer...Iray has the Iray photometric settings/3Delight has the 'regular' Daz Studio light settings.

JD_Mortal

JD_Mortal said:

First, the Iray settings ARE NOT the same as the 3Delight settings.  So without the actual Iray shader being applied, it's pointless to start adjusting things.

Yup, but they have completely different results with the same settings... You don't NEED iray shaders to render in Iray. That is a bonus, if they exist.

mjc1016 said:

Second, lights...wrong.  The lights are context 'aware'.  They will be the proper light settings for the selected renderer...Iray has the Iray photometric settings/3Delight has the 'regular' Daz Studio light settings.

Yup, but they have completely different results with the same settings... No, they will not be the proper lights, they render over-stacked. You can render "Photometric" AND the other settings. Turning photometric off, renders only the other values, on, it renders both settings. And, as stated, there is no relevant relation from one light to the other, even with photometrics. One is blinding at 1500 lumens, one is pur blackness at 1500 lumens... They should both be exactly the same, lumens are lumens. One has to be 1 or lower, the other light has to be 65,000 or higher, to be equal. Both respond to the Dlight setting of "Intensity", but not the same way, same issue with one being black and one being blinding white at the same exact values, in Iray.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lumen_(unit)

He asked what he can do to tweak the shine, not build custom shaders. But Uber-shaders and the conversion is another option... But it can completely change the whole look, not just the "gloss".

mjc1016

 

JD_Mortal said:

Yup, but they have completely different results with the same settings... No, they will not be the proper lights, they render over-stacked. You can render "Photometric" AND the other settings. Turning photometric off, renders only the other values, on, it renders both settings. And, as stated, there is no relevant relation from one light to the other, even with photometrics. One is blinding at 1500 lumens, one is pur blackness at 1500 lumens... They should both be exactly the same, lumens are lumens. One has to be 1 or lower, the other light has to be 65,000 or higher, to be equal. Both respond to the Dlight setting of "Intensity", but not the same way, same issue with one being black and one being blinding white at the same exact values, in Iray.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lumen_(unit)

He asked what he can do to tweak the shine, not build custom shaders. But Uber-shaders and the conversion is another option... But it can completely change the whole look, not just the "gloss".

No...that is the default tonemapping settings.  The default is set up for a bright daylight scene...the default HDR that loads with the Iray dome.   For using scene lighting that means everything will be severely UNDEREXPOSED. 

And just applying the Iray Uber Base (the general default Iray shader for Studio could and probably would take care of the excessive specular response.

Debutstudios

Thanks anyways, but I thought I made it clear that I really am new at this. I'm glad you are a walking wikipedia of Daz settings, but I am new and have tried to follow the conversation...to no avail.

I'll muck about with the Iray shader and see where I go from there.

 

mjc1016

The Iray Uber Shader should be applied first, to things that don't have Iray specific materials already set up. 

fastbike1

First select the clothing.

go to the Surfaces tab. If there are various material zones (e.g. Sleeves, legs, etc) , slect the ones you want

in the Content tab go to Shader Presets>iray>daz> uber shader

ctrl click on the Uber shader. In the popup click ignore for textures. Otherwise th shader will overwrite the texture.

try a trial render. If too glossy, you will need to adjust the surface settings (more involved)

Tobor

Debutstudios said:

Thanks anyways, but I thought I made it clear that I really am new at this. I'm glad you are a walking wikipedia of Daz settings, but I am new and have tried to follow the conversation...to no avail.

I'll muck about with the Iray shader and see where I go from there.

On things graphics, I often find a good video is worth a thousand words. A few early adopters, like Sickleyield, have some pretty good introductory videos on using Iray. You may want to start with that.

If you're also new to Daz Studio in general, you may want to first start with the built-in lessons, which demonstrate creating scenes using the other rendered in the program, 3Delight. It's a double-wammy ("A world of hurt," as Jesse Ventura said in "Predator") to have to learn both at the same time.