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Geometry Editor - hiding/deleting edge strands?

TaozTaoz Posts: 9,940
in Daz Studio Discussion

I can't find any way to hide or delete edges (in this case plain strands of edges, not edges in polygons) with the Geometry Editor.  Seems a bit strange since you can hide/delete polygons which must be more complex?

Comments

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 6,926
    edited May 2023

    As far as I know, there's no 'direct way' to hide or delete edge / vertex in Ds...

    Post edited by crosswind on
  • TaozTaoz Posts: 9,940

    No, doesn't look like it.  I tried to send it to Hexagon and there move the strands inside the head (they are separate from the rest of the mesh), creating a morph in DS, but despite the strands are separate from the rest of the mesh, the morph distorts parts of it anyway. 

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 6,926

    Which part? mouth cavity or sth? I never use Hexagon but only ZB and blender, not sure how it works...

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 9,940

    crosswind said:

    Which part? mouth cavity or sth? I never use Hexagon but only ZB and blender, not sure how it works...

    I'm using the Hexagon bridge which can send objects from DS to Hexagon for editing, and then back again.

    See video here:  https://www.screencast.com/t/rQ9InlUQUME4

    I'm trying to get rid of the strands sticking out from the left side of the hair so I'm creating a morph for the purpose, but as you can see it deforms other parts of the mesh also when applying it.

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 6,926
    edited May 2023

    Taoz said:

    crosswind said:

    Which part? mouth cavity or sth? I never use Hexagon but only ZB and blender, not sure how it works...

    I'm using the Hexagon bridge which can send objects from DS to Hexagon for editing, and then back again.

    See video here:  https://www.screencast.com/t/rQ9InlUQUME4

    I'm trying to get rid of the strands sticking out from the left side of the hair so I'm creating a morph for the purpose, but as you can see it deforms other parts of the mesh also when applying it.

    Understood ! You wanna ' get rid of ' these fine hairs... But if you make a morph in Hexagon by dragging the 'strand' into the hair, the connected polygons will be also moved, then it'll be 'deformed'. You could've partialy shrunk or bent it in there...or used a mask before dragging..

    Or in Ds, you just hide them by using Geometry Editor... You may take a look at the closeup, these fine hairs are still formed by polygons. You may use marquee selection to select part of it then presse Ctrl + +, then hide or delete them.

    Or if you know Mesh Grabber, you may press Alt Shift + E after selecting the part of  this 'strand' and carefully 'push' and 'rotate' them into the hair. Then create a morph for it. In this way, you also can 'show' or 'hide' it by dialing the morph...like what I roughly did in the screenshots...

     

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    Post edited by crosswind on
  • TaozTaoz Posts: 9,940

    crosswind said:

    Taoz said:

    crosswind said:

    Which part? mouth cavity or sth? I never use Hexagon but only ZB and blender, not sure how it works...

    I'm using the Hexagon bridge which can send objects from DS to Hexagon for editing, and then back again.

    See video here:  https://www.screencast.com/t/rQ9InlUQUME4

    I'm trying to get rid of the strands sticking out from the left side of the hair so I'm creating a morph for the purpose, but as you can see it deforms other parts of the mesh also when applying it.

    Understood ! You wanna ' get rid of ' these fine hairs... But if you make a morph in Hexagon by dragging the 'strand' into the hair, the connected polygons will be also moved, then it'll be 'deformed'. You could've partialy shrunk or bent it in there...or used a mask before dragging..

    But as far as I can see these strands are not connected to anything else in the mesh.

    Or in Ds, you just hide them by using Geometry Editor... You may take a look at the closeup, these fine hairs are still formed by polygons. You may use marquee selection to select part of it then presse Ctrl + +, then hide or delete them.

    As far as I can see they are edges, not polygons.  If you use Polygon select in DS, they will not select, only if you use Edge select you can select them.  And Edges can't be hidden or deleted in Geometry Editor.

    Same in Hexagon, they will only select if you choose Edge selection, not if you use Polygon or any other type of selection.

    Like I said above, the strand/edge group is not connected to any other part of the mesh either as far as I can see.  If you move it, it doesn't affect any part of the mesh, in Hexagon.  If I select some other random edges and move them you can clearly see how they are connected to other parts of the mesh.  It's only in DS, when applying the morph so the strand group moves, it affects other parts of the mesh.  So I wonder what's going on here.

    See video here which demonstrates it all: https://www.screencast.com/t/0JzqrB5j2f

    Or if you know Mesh Grabber, you may press Alt Shift + E after selecting the part of  this 'strand' and carefully 'push' and 'rotate' them into the hair. Then create a morph for it. In this way, you also can 'show' or 'hide' it by dialing the morph...like what I roughly did in the screenshots...

    I have Mesh Grabber but find it rather clumsy to work with, partly because it doesn't respect "Not selectable" nodes and that you can't lock node selection on the scene tab (DS problem).  So my experience with it is very limited.  Looks like you're using the Rotation's add-on here?

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 6,926
    edited May 2023
     

    As far as I can see they are edges, not polygons.  If you use Polygon select in DS, they will not select, only if you use Edge select you can select them.  And Edges can't be hidden or deleted in Geometry Editor.

    Same in Hexagon, they will only select if you choose Edge selection, not if you use Polygon or any other type of selection...

    Yes, certainly you can select it by using Polygon Selection as long as you make it 'close' enough... like this:

    https://mega.nz/file/XXYTXSiJ#Gn9bQFt5sU25WFHPmcc8nbHz3jwu8pn93b3HAdCspWg

    But it'll be cumbersome by selecting polygons bit by bit, so using Marguee or Lasso will be easier...
    Like I said above, the strand/edge group is not connected to any other part of the mesh either as far as I can see.  If you move it, it doesn't affect any part of the mesh, in Hexagon.  If I select some other random edges and move them you can clearly see how they are connected to other parts of the mesh.  It's only in DS, when applying the morph so the strand group moves, it affects other parts of the mesh.  So I wonder what's going on here.

    In your video,  while using Polygon Selection, actually the 'strand' has already been selected. You need to zoom in to take a look. The highlights of Polygon and Edge are different,  the latter looks much apparent (highlighted in orange color)... Acutally you can first use Edge selection to select the 'strand' then convert it to Polygon Selection, then hide or delete the selected... (RMB Menu : Geometry Selection - Convert Selection - Convert to Polygon Selection...)
    Still, I have no idea about Hexagon but it looks like the strand is really 'separated'...  but in Ds and blender it is 'not' if it was partially selected ...   I just roughly made this  'fixing morph'  in blender:

    https://mega.nz/file/ffxkmIhQ#gp3FlTMZ7x6IxLwNbHMZHjl1SIBBSOY8184jgD774R0
     

    I have Mesh Grabber but find it rather clumsy to work with, partly because it doesn't respect "Not selectable" nodes and that you can't lock node selection on the scene tab (DS problem).  So my experience with it is very limited.  Looks like you're using the Rotation's add-on here?

    Yes, I ever bought the whole bundle of Mesh Graber but in this case, I did not rotate it since I found 'pushing' was just fine.  And,  that's right... Mesh Grabber has no 'mask'  or  'respect Topology' function, so it's not easy to manipulate complex cases with it...

    Post edited by crosswind on
  • TaozTaoz Posts: 9,940
    edited May 2023

    crosswind said:

     

    As far as I can see they are edges, not polygons.  If you use Polygon select in DS, they will not select, only if you use Edge select you can select them.  And Edges can't be hidden or deleted in Geometry Editor.

    Same in Hexagon, they will only select if you choose Edge selection, not if you use Polygon or any other type of selection...

    Yes, certainly you can select it by using Polygon Selection as long as you make it 'close' enough... like this:

    https://mega.nz/file/XXYTXSiJ#Gn9bQFt5sU25WFHPmcc8nbHz3jwu8pn93b3HAdCspWg

    But it'll be cumbersome by selecting polygons bit by bit, so using Marguee or Lasso will be easier...

    Hm, yes looks like you're right.  It looks like DS is having an issue with in some cases not hiding polygons in the viewport even if they technically are hidden, which has been confusing me.  If you look at the video here you can see that if I select some polygons on the sphere and then select Hide Selected Polygons, the do indeed hide visually. 

    However, if I do the same with the hair strand the polygons do not hide visually.  But if I select Delete Hidden Polygons anyway, they actually delete so they must be hidden technically.  I just discovered this by accident - I haven't tried it before since I didn't see any point in trying using Delete Hidden Polygons since hiding them didn't seem to work in the first place.  

    https://www.screencast.com/t/aPuox29k

    Like I said above, the strand/edge group is not connected to any other part of the mesh either as far as I can see.  If you move it, it doesn't affect any part of the mesh, in Hexagon.  If I select some other random edges and move them you can clearly see how they are connected to other parts of the mesh.  It's only in DS, when applying the morph so the strand group moves, it affects other parts of the mesh.  So I wonder what's going on here.

    In your video,  while using Polygon Selection, actually the 'strand' has already been selected. You need to zoom in to take a look. The highlights of Polygon and Edge are different,  the latter looks much apparent (highlighted in orange color)... Acutally you can first use Edge selection to select the 'strand' then convert it to Polygon Selection, then hide or delete the selected... (RMB Menu : Geometry Selection - Convert Selection - Convert to Polygon Selection...)
    Still, I have no idea about Hexagon but it looks like the strand is really 'separated'...  but in Ds and blender it is 'not' if it was partially selected ...   I just roughly made this  'fixing morph'  in blender:

    https://mega.nz/file/ffxkmIhQ#gp3FlTMZ7x6IxLwNbHMZHjl1SIBBSOY8184jgD774R0

    I can see that in Blender there is a black line connected to the polygon group like a rubber band when you move it, is that an edge or a polygon that connects it to the rest of the mesh, so that it actually is connected? 

    Post edited by Taoz on
  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 6,926
    edited May 2023
    Hm, yes looks like you're right.  It looks like DS is having an issue with in some cases not hiding polygons in the viewport even if they technically are hidden, which has been confusing me.  If you look at the video here you can see that if I select some polygons on the sphere and then select Hide Selected Polygons, the do indeed hide visually. 

    However, if I do the same with the hair strand the polygons do not hide visually.  But if I select Delete Hidden Polygons anyway, they actually delete so they must be hidden technically.  I just discovered this by accident - I haven't tried it before since I didn't see any point in trying using Delete Hidden Polygons since hiding them didn't seem to work in the first place.  

    https://www.screencast.com/t/aPuox29k

    Yeah, it's a 'feature' of Ds laugh  there's a trick (maybe sometimes),  you set the resolution level to Base first...

    https://mega.nz/file/jS4XBTAQ#krHpfzlByDtkpUkpb7qkTQ8aPURiX1I6VgmbMZKgL3I

     

    I can see that in Blender there is a black line connected to the polygon group like a rubber band when you move it, is that an edge or a polygon that connects it to the rest of the mesh, so that it actually is connected? 

    No, in fact I happened to partially select it. You're right... I just tried again. If I selected the Linked polygons, it is not connected.

    https://mega.nz/file/OCZRXDJQ#xo1upKHrpc2LJj85GmG7qgAl7VHBCeXxa0iQniskFjY

    But I really don't  understand why the morph you made in Hexagon finally brought you a 'deformed' hair...

    Post edited by Richard Haseltine on
  • TaozTaoz Posts: 9,940

    crosswind said:

    Hm, yes looks like you're right.  It looks like DS is having an issue with in some cases not hiding polygons in the viewport even if they technically are hidden, which has been confusing me.  If you look at the video here you can see that if I select some polygons on the sphere and then select Hide Selected Polygons, the do indeed hide visually. 

    However, if I do the same with the hair strand the polygons do not hide visually.  But if I select Delete Hidden Polygons anyway, they actually delete so they must be hidden technically.  I just discovered this by accident - I haven't tried it before since I didn't see any point in trying using Delete Hidden Polygons since hiding them didn't seem to work in the first place.  

    https://www.screencast.com/t/aPuox29k

    Yeah, it's a 'feature' of Ds laugh  there's a trick (maybe sometimes),  you set the resolution level to Base first...

    https://mega.nz/file/jS4XBTAQ#krHpfzlByDtkpUkpb7qkTQ8aPURiX1I6VgmbMZKgL3I

    Yes, polygon selection of these thin strands works in Base resolution actually. 

    I can see that in Blender there is a black line connected to the polygon group like a rubber band when you move it, is that an edge or a polygon that connects it to the rest of the mesh, so that it actually is connected? 

    No, in fact I happened to partially select it. You're right... I just tried again. If I selected the Linked polygons, it is not connected.

    OK

    https://mega.nz/file/OCZRXDJQ#xo1upKHrpc2LJj85GmG7qgAl7VHBCeXxa0iQniskFjY

    But I really don't  understand why the morph you made in Hexagon finally brought you a 'deformed' hair...

    Looks like a bug in one of the programs, or the bridge - if I send the hair to Hexagon and then right back to DS again without making any changes to it, DS offers to create a morph anyway, and it causes the same distortion when applying it.

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