Weird G9 Bends
Starkdog
Posts: 162
Lately, I've noticed that my G9 characters are getting weird bends and deformations, especially in the thighs and calves, as shown below. I've also seen several weird ribcage deformations too. Looking at the "Currently Used" tab in the Parameters tab, een with show hidden selected, I see a grocery list of over 200 sliders, all showing some percent active, and not at zero. DOes anyone know what is causing this? I'll check with the base Genesis 9 figure to see what all is loading.
Thanks, -David
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Ok, looks like I can post a picture now. Here is an example of the missing hamstrings.
G9 has terrible bends in the legs and elbows. That is why I have stuck to G8. Look for a morph called "Base Joint Cottectives" and set it to 100%. Hopefully, that will improve your shin bend issue.
Attached is screenshot of G8 (left) vs G9. "Base Joint Cottectives" is at the left top of the screenshot.
It looks like you've probably got some bugged package that's got JCMs (or CBs as they now are on G9) that aren't properly linked to their master morph.
Hello Nakamuram002 and Matt_Castle,
I tried this pose again, but with HID Ruby. Again, I saw the weird deformations. Amongst the hundreds of hidden cbs sliders, somehow, sliders for FNEdith and E3DAlina were activated. Once I zeroed out those character sliders, the deformations went away. It seems like there is more cross-talk and inadvertent cbs/jcm activation in the G9 series than G8.
Thanks, -David
From your screenshot it looks like the Shin x155 CBS/JCM is dialling in too early.
Go to Parameters tab and make sure you have 'Preference>Show Hidden Properties' on.
Look at 'Currently Used' parameters to see active morphs.
Toggle them until you find faulty one(s).
Once you know which one is faulty you can either leave it turned off for temporary fix for current scene, or permanently fix it (in Property Heirarchy if set up incorrectly, e.g., keyed to dial in too early, or else make new corrective morph) and then resave morph. Otherwise can try to remove it (or the character it belongs to) from your content library in such a way that you wont get missing files errors.
Thats not a G9 problem, thats a HID Ruby or FNEdith and E3DAlina problem you are describing. Just inept PA's.
In Property Heirarchy, the Shin155x CBS morph for the characters should be set up with 'Controller' 2nd Stage as 'ERC [Multiply]' for the Character's body morph so it is only active when the character body morph is dialled in.
If the PA didnt do this, then their CBS are being dialled in when they are not needed, i.e., when the character morph is not even loaded.
You can check (in Parameters tab or in Property Heirarchy tab) that the morphs were set up correctly with appropriate 2nd stage Controllers
E3DAlina_body_cbs_shin_x155p_l.dsf
E3DAlina_body_cbs_shin_x155p_r.dsf
FNEdith_body_cbs_shin_x155p_l.dsf
FNEdith_body_cbs_shin_x155p_r.dsf
Put in support tickets for those characters; this kind of bug slips through QA occasionally.
In the meantime, you may want to use your install manager to uninstall them until they get fixed.
Hello Matt_Castle and Lilweep,
Here is just G9 Feminine in the Easy Days Pose#28, and again, the cbs/jcm's for FN Edith and ESD Alina are firing. I reset their sliders, and the deformations are gone. Note that it is the shin_x155p slider causing the divot, as well as other cbs sliders. Odd thing is that it's doing this without loading FN Edith nor ESD Alina characters. Not sure if this is something accidently baked into the pose set or crosstalk with sliders. I'll try with another pose set to see if the issue duplicates. Also, I just uninstalled the Vinme morphs, as I was getting the duplicate morph errors, as indicated in another thread.
Thanks, -David
Click the gear icon in Parameters tab next to those offending character CBS sliders and see if it has ERC[Multiply] as one of the Controllers. The ERC[Multiply] controller should be the character body morph. E.g., for ESD Alina Shin CBS, the ERC[Multiply] should be ESD Alina Body
Doing what Matt said is best, report issue and hope they fix it. Can uninstall thsoe characters in meantime.
Otherwise you can fix it manually, but it isnt the job of Daz users to fix PA's mistakes (asuming that's what's going on here)
I guess its understandable that this could get past QA since if just testing the character itself, you wouldnt see this issue pop up, only when testing other characters would you see it.
Ok,
I zeroed G9F, and then loaded a pose from a different vendor, and still get weird deformations. I don't see the ERC Multiply as indicated above. I'll submit a ticket, but I'll also uninstall the character to avoid the cross-talk issue.
Also, how on earth do I get rid of the black background and back to the base light gray?
Thanks, -David
Yeah your screenshot shows that the character JCM is not under control of the character morph so will fire even if character morph is not active. So needs a ticket.
Fact that several different PAs are doing this is alarming, as can ruin experience of G9 for users unless they dig deeper and troubleshoot. Makes me wonder how many complaints about G9 bends are just due to library of faulty characters.
Hello
Refer screenshots as well -
Click on Window tab up the top of DAZ Studio. Click on Style. Click on Customize Style.
Click on 6.Viewports - change color to your preference. Click Accept.
I found this thread and am keeping an eye on it.
Now I don't think my product is the cause of this problem.
But if so, please let me know here.
I will fix it promptly.
thanks
Hello HID3D,
Your products are great(and I really enjoy them)! It just so happened that when I was loading a pose for Ruby in a scene, that I noticed the weird bends. After lots of trial and error, it is other vendor's characters cbs/jcm morphs that are firing, regardless of the base G9 or G9-based character, creating the strange deformations. I suspect it might be the way they name their morphs(spaces in the name?) that could possibly be it, or that a setting isn't properly ticked, allowing the morph to load regardless if the character is loaded or not.
Thanks, -David
I removed my allegation from my previous post, given that you have been vindicated!
Same gut feeling... the issue might come from certain character(s)'s JCM morphs (named as 'cbs' on G9 - corrective blend shape). may filter 'cbs_thigh', 'cbs_shin' in Currently Used - hidden properties and zero them one by one, the culprit may be found...
Interesting.
It's not that difficult to check, just install the PA's product then load the base G9 figure and see if there are any morphs activated that shouldn't be.
Heck, you should be able to write a script to check since they know the only morphs which should be active with the base G9 figure. Then verifying it is no more difficult than pressing the proverbial button. I would hope that QA already has automated unit tests for various types of products.
Not exactly... this is not 'some character morph Default Value 0 or 1 's problem' while the issue related to cbs ( aka pJCM on G8), so in general, if there's no pose given, there'll be no distortion found...
I have seen a similar issue with this on G8 as well, which is normally because I am using G8 in combination with these products: https://www.daz3d.com/turbo-loader-for-genesis-8-and-81 and https://www.daz3d.com/turbo-loader-booster-utilities.
The first product renames a lot of dsf files so that they will not be loaded when G8F/G8M are loaded which significantly reduces load times. The second product makes the files readable again when reading in a particular character file. What I have noticed that if I have a bit of V8's head dialed into a character, then it will switch on V8s head morph and all of V8s jcms (both head and body), but not V8s cntrl dial or V8s body dsf.
As a result any G8F character loaded later will often use V8s jcms even though none of her body is being used. This will cause deformations when the body bends similar to what was posted above.
Since Turbo loader is not even supported yet for G9, that is not what is causing the issues for the OP. However if does show how the complexity and interdependant natures of the various Genesis morphs and jcms can cause some characters jcm dials to be non zero, even when there is no obvious reason why this could be the case. In my case it is no fault or error in V8, just a case of how some renamed dsf files can cause unexpected issues.
I use Turbo Loader as well but haven't seen such an issue. If only dialing V8/V8.1's head morph, there won't be any V8/V8.1 body related pJCM triggered when posing the figure but only eJCM / cbs will be triggered if an Expression / FACS morph is given on 8 or 8.1. The mechanism should be all the same...
Use the Turbo Loader manager to disable V8's body and character settings, but leave all the other morphs/jcms enabled. Then load a new G8F, do not dial in any morph, but pose it. Toggle show hidden values and you should see some V8 body jcms with non-zero values. At least I am, despite the fact that no V8 morphs are dialled in.
OK, that's it! V8's pJCM's 2nd Stage Controller is V8's Body morph (FBMVictoria8). If you deactivate the body morph in Turbo Loader, there'll be no 2nd Stage controller for V8's pJCMs... so they'll be triggered just by the 1st Stage controller, e.g. XRotat (Bending). Normally in Turbo Loader, we should deactivate all the morphs of a Character other than partially deactivation... as there're the 'control logics and settings' as above mentioned. I remember RiverSoftArt ever stressed that in the support thread as well..
That is all correct, and indeed only activating some is an error. However that is what the turbo utilities sometimes does when automatically re-enabling the morphs for a character being loaded. If the character used V8's head morphs, but not the body, then those two morphs I hightlighted remain disabled, and the posing problems start to occur.
Okay, I'll further make some tests. If there's sth. wrong or a bug in there, let's talk to RiverSoftArt...
(submit a ticket...)
QA could test on an empty machine (for speed) and on a fully loaded (with Daz store characters and morphs) machine (for possible conflicts), and they could save us the trouble. Instead they outsource QA to the customer.
So then apply a pose to a default G9 which bends all the major joints to some degree (doesn't have to be much to trigger the unwanted pJCM / CBS, right?) and then do the check for extraneous items. Still seems like an easy thing to automate, but I cheerfully admit I know less about this topic than you do. ;-)
I now have a similar problem with G9 morphs. It seems that G8 morphs with the same name cause the G9 morphs to be excluded from the G9 morphs list in the parameter pane. So it happens that you only have the sliders for G8, that obviously are odd acting on G9 and you only get a deformation of the G9 character. I've found no way to have the G9 sliders available.
That sounds like a nightmare. I haven't been using G9 enough to notice that problem. I'll have to check it out when I get a chance.