G9 bending joints
Philippi_Child
Posts: 648
in The Commons
Does G9 really have bending issues at the joints? I've read that ther were issues.
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Not really as far as I have seen. Some people zero the figure but that turns off the correctives so it creates some issues and then report on those issues as being bad joints. Some are used to their G8 add ons but I haven't really noticed a lot of really awful things.
There are issues with definition on armpits, knees and elbows, abdomen too. Those areas look objectively more uncanny than on the previous generation. Whether a non-base character has them or not depends largely on the PA. Because some PAs equip their figures with JCMs, some do not.
You have to look carefully at promo images before purchasing anything.
Agree 100%. G8F bends much better than G9F. G9 is a giant step backwards!! Examples attached.
For some reason my images are not uploading. See https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/7862301/#Comment_7862301. ; It has various exmples, including mine.
Same. I enjoy working with G9. To the OP, eventually more fixes will come out and it will be to the same level as G8 today. Best to just try it for yourself instead of listening to what the fourm users have to say because everyone has their own uses and opinions.
its all apparently subjective.....as a PA who works with g9 all day every day.....I say it bends fine
I've been using G9 since it's release and I just haven't seen the weird bends that ppl are describing ;)
I like the way G9 bends, it looks better to me actually..
There are also a couple of characters that cause issues due to badly set up corrections, I believe these have been reproted to Daz now but not yet updated.
Thanks I like to pick the brains of other users. I'm thinking of installing G9.
Can someone show us some "good G9F joint bends", please? I want G9F to work, so if progress is being made in the area of bends, please post some examples.
I am using G9 since she came out and have not had any issues with joint bends.
Here's G9 Ivar and G8.1 Mike. Both are in the same pose (it's actually a Genesis 8 male pose). I don't see any major difference in the bends. I used this pose because the leg in the foreground is an extreme bend and they both do equally well (or in this case, bad...lol). Therefore, I don't see much difference between the generations. Genesis 8's bends look better too after the correctives starting hitting the store. We just don't have those for G9 yet. But the joints it already has aren't terrible or any worse than G8's were IMVHO. Your mileage may vary ;)
FWIW, I think 8.1 also looks "stiff" compared to G9 due to those spine bones. And the knee joint on the non-extreme leg bend looks better to me on G9 than it does on G8.1. We all have an opinion though, so again - yours may differ ;).
That is another thing that could lead to "bad" bends. Using conversion processes to get the poses. I am sure they do OK but they might not be perfect. But thank you for them because I really can't pose LOL
Conversion process for the poses causing the bends to go bad?
Having written a pose convertor script from G8 to G9 (and a further 16 others for different generations) I'm slightly at a loss to see how this could be. At each joint you need to make the G9 limb move to match the G8 zero position, in bend, twist and side-side axes. Then after ascertaining if 1 degree for G9 is the same as 1 degree for G8 in each axis (it isn't with all Genesis generations, and some move in the opposite direction), then add the pose bend/twist & side-side parameter to the G9 character multiplied by the correct degree size factor. If there are JCM's on the new generation, they'll activate. If not, they won't.
So, given that that's all there is to it, I don't really see how the conversion can introduce problems.
Regards,
Richard
Every example of bad G9 bends I've seen have been easy to replicate, put G9 into the same or similar pose, and then zero the "Base Joint Correctives" slider.
The problem is that the Genesis series in general, but more so G9, have a lot of parameters that load with a memorised value, zero these and the figure doesn't work as good.
In the parameters tab stick to using the three options under "Restore", and avoid using any of the three options under "Zero".
Thanks for the example, Laurie. Too bad its for a male character and extreme bends. I do not use the male characters at all. I notice problems in the intermediate bends of the females. Too bad I still cannot post my examples - I get: Uploading... Uploading...
Can I remind people of a thread in February where there were one or two G9 bends that were less than stellar.
The image that triggered it was this one, take a look at the thigh bulge... It was from a sale image (I forget which sale now, probably possible to see in the thread listed below)
As a result I then did a V3/G8F/V9 comparison (as seen left to right below), and found.., well, see for yourself:
It has to be said, the LEAST bad of those three for thigh bulge is V3. 20 yo technology. Great to see how far we've progressed.
The post covering it is here: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/8001451/#Comment_8001451 and the start of the thread is: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/615211/genesis-9
Regards,
Richard.
Did you try using base V3 rather than Supermodel Vickie, though?
I would love to show some more bends, but apparently Daz just can't get their ish together and fix the image upload ;)
Here is Ivar, Freja and Joan Elven all in the same pose (pose was made for G9).
The bend at the back of the G9F's knee looks really bad - Like kinked tubing.
I am now able to upload my G8F vs G9F examples. G8F and G9F are not morphed (except for Thin=50% in image 2). My bends are simple -- Just to illustrate the G9F bending problem. Anyone should be able to replicate my tests.
I'm not overly worried about it. Correctives will come along (or maybe even Daz will deem us worthy of an update). Every generation has had its issues and Genesis 9 is no different. Even so, it's totally useable and looks even better than Genesis 8/8.1 in most (maybe not ALL) scenarios. I don't regret buying into it. Of course, no one has to if they don't care to and that's ok. There's a plethora of stuff for Genesis 8/8.1 out there and more being made as we speak. As for myself, I still use figures all the way back to Genesis 1 (David 5 is a favorite). You do you :)
I try to include CBS/JCMs for custom G9 characters to fix the shin and forearm bends, which are the most problematic.
Can't disagree with you at all. The emphasis I have for my images is on people in a vista, and the longer range view is one where G9 does no better than, and sometimes less well than, G8. For portrait shots, G9 is usually streets ahead of G8.
In response to your earlier query whether I have tried the same pose with vanilla V3 as opposed to GV3; No, I haven't. I am curious to see the results. I will rerun the model this weekend (can't do it before, some work deadlines). I do know that the advertising for GV3 suggests that Jim Burton worked on creating some jcm's (though I don't think the term was in use at the time - around Jan 2003. GV3 has SKU1171 and the product readme page is missing. Aquatica Reef, SKU 1172 is on the web site and has release date 25 Jan 2003).
Regards,
Richard.
As I recall... I submitted Help Request #425246 back in Nov. 2022 regarding G9's joint bending problems. I submitted the same images that I posed earlier. So far, no action has been taken. I hope that a joint fix is forthcoming. I will keep using g8.1F until then...
May I just say that I ADORE Alexei and Gregor....especially the HAIR!
I can't find Gregor by Morris. Or am I looking at the wrong PA Store? I found Alexei by Morris
So, my biggest problem with G9 has not been with the bends. It has been with the arms and shoulders. Just look at the way the shoulders "attach" (not sure if there is a better word) in most of the images shown above. Especially compared to other gens. I find them to be really odd looking and off-putting. Not only that, but with rare exceptions, the G9 characters released so far have had all the attention paid to their faces. Many have stellar face textures, but then the bodies look hazy or unfinished compared to a lot of G8/G8.1 textures.
I've bought several G9 characters, both core and not, and they just can't compare to g8.1. I'm sad that we've moved on so completely.
Have tried it out, and it seems vanilla V3 is similar to GV3 in the bend. Left to Right below are V3, GV3, G8F and V9.
Regards,
Richard.