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iRay keeps crashing my laptop

ktorrance5ktorrance5 Posts: 17
in Technical Help (nuts n bolts)

I am running DS 4.21 on an i9 laptop with 16 cores and 64GB RAM. The GPU is an NVIDIA   GeForce 1650 Ti with 4GB

You would think this would be ok to render on, right?

Unfortunately, even rendering a simple scene with one figure in at about 1000x1000px causes crashes after a few minutes. This is incredibly irritating. My GPU usage is at 100% during rendering and the temp is often 100C. There doesn't seem to be any setting in DS to cap the amount of GPU usage. Why not?

The only solution I have found is to disable the GPU in the advanced render settings and use CPU only. This takes a lot longer, but at least I can leave the laptop unsupervised while it completes the render.

Any thoughts? 

Comments

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,941

    The 1650 won't have enough memory for most scenes, even a single figure tends to run out on my (non-laptop) version. It's probably dropping to CPU, and it sounds as if the system is overheating - you can limit the number CPU cores DS will use, in the Advanced tab of Render Settings, so try that (an application restart may be needed to have the change apply - I thought so, but it doesn't say so next to the setting)

  • ktorrance5ktorrance5 Posts: 17

    Richard Haseltine said:

    The 1650 won't have enough memory for most scenes, even a single figure tends to run out on my (non-laptop) version. It's probably dropping to CPU, and it sounds as if the system is overheating - you can limit the number CPU cores DS will use, in the Advanced tab of Render Settings, so try that (an application restart may be needed to have the change apply - I thought so, but it doesn't say so next to the setting)

    Thanks Richard. But I am not sure limiting the CPU cores would help, would it? The problem only occurs when I use the GPU. Disabling that and using CPU only, doesn't cause crashes (although it does take longer, of course) 

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,941

    Sorry, I missed that bit. It is odd then - I know that some laptop GPUs can have more memory, because it is system RAM in essence, than their desktop equivalents so it may be working (or working for longer - my 1650 generally fails part way through rendering a naked Genesis 8). I would suspect a driver issue, or a system-specific thermal issue, as rendering is not usually the most taxing thing the GPU can do.

  • ktorrance5ktorrance5 Posts: 17

    Richard Haseltine said:

    Sorry, I missed that bit. It is odd then - I know that some laptop GPUs can have more memory, because it is system RAM in essence, than their desktop equivalents so it may be working (or working for longer - my 1650 generally fails part way through rendering a naked Genesis 8). I would suspect a driver issue, or a system-specific thermal issue, as rendering is not usually the most taxing thing the GPU can do.

    I have checked and I have the latest driver installed for the graphics card. There are a bunch of settings in the NVIDIA control panel (which you can customise app by app). But I am not very technical so I am not sure which settings might help.

     

     

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  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,941

    Which driver is that? The very latest couple have been reported as having (non-crash) issues in Iray.

  • ktorrance5ktorrance5 Posts: 17

    Richard Haseltine said:

    Which driver is that? The very latest couple have been reported as having (non-crash) issues in Iray.

    v 31.0.15.3623

    8 June 2023

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,941

    I'm not sure that translates into the usual xxx.xx format, but the posts relating to the topic were here https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/635766/nvidia-studio-driver-535-98-do-not-install#latest

  • ktorrance5ktorrance5 Posts: 17

    Richard Haseltine said:

    I'm not sure that translates into the usual xxx.xx format, but the posts relating to the topic were here https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/635766/nvidia-studio-driver-535-98-do-not-install#latest

    sorry that is the driver info that Windows device manager is showing me. Where should I be looking? 

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,941

    Right-click on desktop>NVIDIA Control Panel will give the nVidia version number above the card name.

  • ktorrance5ktorrance5 Posts: 17

    Richard Haseltine said:

    Right-click on desktop>NVIDIA Control Panel will give the nVidia version number above the card name.

    Ah. 536.23 

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,941

    I think that too has issues, it may be worth trying a driver older than 535.98 if you can.

  • AgitatedRiotAgitatedRiot Posts: 4,437

    Richard Haseltine said:

    I think that too has issues, it may be worth trying a driver older than 535.98 if you can.

    I can confirm this. I installed it, and everything rendered was greenish, like in The Matrix

  • ktorrance5ktorrance5 Posts: 17

    Richard Haseltine said:

    I think that too has issues, it may be worth trying a driver older than 535.98 if you can.

    Ok. Not sure where I can find old drivers, but I'll hunt around. Thank you 

  • ktorrance5ktorrance5 Posts: 17

    AgitatedRiot said:

    I can confirm this. I installed it, and everything rendered was greenish, like in The Matrix

    Thanks. I didn't get that. It rendered beautifully. Just kept overheating and crashing numerous times. I am using the CPU only at the moment. That seems to work ok, just a bit slower.

  • PerttiAPerttiA Posts: 10,024

    nVidia drivers, the one place one should use;
    https://www.nvidia.com/Download/index.aspx

    Go to "Beta and Older drivers"

  • ktorrance5ktorrance5 Posts: 17

    PerttiA said:

    nVidia drivers, the one place one should use;
    https://www.nvidia.com/Download/index.aspx

    Go to "Beta and Older drivers"

    thank you! 

  • ktorrance5ktorrance5 Posts: 17

    Ok I rolled back my GPU driver to 532.03, but it made no difference. 

    Just to be clear, it's not a 'crash' as such. What happens is that about 3 mins into the render the laptop hibernates - I assume because the chip temperature gets too high.

    I wish there was some way to limit iray's use of the GPU. Put some kind of ceiling on it so it doesn't get overheated during rendering. Could something like this be added to future builds of Daz Studio perhaps? It's a pity GPUs don't have cores the way CPUs do. Then I could just ask it to not use all of them.

  • stefan.humsstefan.hums Posts: 132

    What happens is that about 3 mins into the render the laptop hibernates - I assume because the chip temperature gets too high.

    It seems that the cooling solution of your laptop is too weak for keeping the GPU temperature within a safe range. For your GPU, the limit is about 85 to 90°C, 100 is much too high. Reaching about 90°C, the driver throttles the core clock. If this is not enough and the temperature still increases, at about 100°C the device will be shut down for protecting the hardware against serious damage. That's what happens with your laptop.

    I wish there was some way to limit iray's use of the GPU. Put some kind of ceiling on it so it doesn't get overheated during rendering. Could something like this be added to future builds of Daz Studio perhaps? It's a pity GPUs don't have cores the way CPUs do. Then I could just ask it to not use all of them.

    You can try MSI Afterburner, it has options to lower the GPU core clock manually - what also decreases power consumption and with that heat. Of course you will pay for that with longer render times.

  • PerttiAPerttiA Posts: 10,024

    When was the last time you cleaned the computer?

  • ktorrance5ktorrance5 Posts: 17

    Thanks everyone. This is really helpful. I'll try Afterburner.

    As for cleaning, I have never cleaned it. Do you mean taking the back off and dusting off/de-fluffing the fan and grill etc?

  • PerttiAPerttiA Posts: 10,024

    ktorrance5 said:

    Thanks everyone. This is really helpful. I'll try Afterburner.

    As for cleaning, I have never cleaned it. Do you mean taking the back off and dusting off/de-fluffing the fan and grill etc?

    At least blow off the dust through the ventilation openings, it does collect quite a lot of it. 

  • ktorrance5ktorrance5 Posts: 17

    PerttiA said:

    ktorrance5 said:

    Thanks everyone. This is really helpful. I'll try Afterburner.

    As for cleaning, I have never cleaned it. Do you mean taking the back off and dusting off/de-fluffing the fan and grill etc?

    At least blow off the dust through the ventilation openings, it does collect quite a lot of it. 

    Sure thing. Will do. Thanks! 

  • ktorrance5ktorrance5 Posts: 17
    edited June 2023

    Hi. I tried lowering the clock by 150 or so, but when I hit "apply" the clock speed stays at 1350MHz. What am I doing wrong?

     

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    EDIT: apologies, I realise this is not an Afterburner support forum. I have found the developer forum now, so I'll bug them instead. Thanks for all your advice so far.

    Post edited by ktorrance5 on
  • TimberWolfTimberWolf Posts: 288

    I know you're not going to want to hear this but you're on a hiding to nowhere with that laptop.

    Studio will reserve 2GB of your card's VRAM for RTX emulation, Windows will take 500MB to 1GB depending on your useage, leaving you with effectively nothing for rendering on the GPU. Your laptop will default to CPU rendering and laptops' cooling systems are just not designed for this. You might find a specialist manufacturer who makes laptops for rendering but an off-the-shelf machine will really suffer.

    Heat kills laptops. You are pumping heat into your laptop. Your GPU is not up to the task, the laptop format is not suited to CPU rendering. You can mess about with Afterburner all you like but it's not going to increase your VRAM or boost the airflow across your CPU.

    I know I'm not going to change your mind but all you're doing is shortening the life of the PC you're using. It's not suitable for long-term rendering. What few scenes fit into your GPU's VRAM do appear to be causing a temperature related crash as well. 4GB of VRAM was cutting edge a long, long, very long time ago. 12GB is the entry point these days.

     

     

  • ktorrance5ktorrance5 Posts: 17

    TimberWolf said:

    I know you're not going to want to hear this but you're on a hiding to nowhere with that laptop.

    Studio will reserve 2GB of your card's VRAM for RTX emulation, Windows will take 500MB to 1GB depending on your useage, leaving you with effectively nothing for rendering on the GPU. Your laptop will default to CPU rendering and laptops' cooling systems are just not designed for this. You might find a specialist manufacturer who makes laptops for rendering but an off-the-shelf machine will really suffer.

    Heat kills laptops. You are pumping heat into your laptop. Your GPU is not up to the task, the laptop format is not suited to CPU rendering. You can mess about with Afterburner all you like but it's not going to increase your VRAM or boost the airflow across your CPU.

    I know I'm not going to change your mind but all you're doing is shortening the life of the PC you're using. It's not suitable for long-term rendering. What few scenes fit into your GPU's VRAM do appear to be causing a temperature related crash as well. 4GB of VRAM was cutting edge a long, long, very long time ago. 12GB is the entry point these days.

     

     

    Thanks very much for this. I have no problem at all with you giving it to me straight. I certainly have no desire to damage my laptop, so I'd much rather have the unvarnished version.

    I am going to uninstall DAZ Studio now. Really appreciate it! 

  • TimberWolfTimberWolf Posts: 288
    edited June 2023

    I wasn't trying to deter you from using Studio or rendering in general! A fair few people use laptops for rendering but I wouldn't recommend it as they are not particularly suited to getting rid of the amount of heat that is generated during the extended period of time renders generally run. We have one for out- of office rendering and I've budgeted for its replacement every two years.

    The thing about Daz Studio is it doesn't really care too much about what hardware you're using, apart from the GPU. Your i9 and 64GB of RAM are absolutely spot on for this kind of work but the 1650 is the weak point and I suspect this is not swappable in your laptop.

    You can buy or commandeer basically any old budget desktop PC as long as you shove in a GPU that can handle it and have the system RAM to feed it. An RTX 3060 with 12GB of VRAM and 32GB of system RAM is what I would consider to be the entry point these days. Don't give up on the art, but don't kill your laptop trying to do something it was never designed for.

    Post edited by TimberWolf on
  • ktorrance5ktorrance5 Posts: 17
    edited June 2023

    TimberWolf said:

    I wasn't trying to deter you from using Studio or rendering in general! A fair few people use laptops for rendering but I wouldn't recommend it as they are not particularly suited to getting rid of the amount of heat that is generated during the extended period of time renders generally run. We have one for out- of office rendering and I've budgeted for its replacement every two years.

    Oh don't worry, I know you weren't trying to do that. But there is not much point in having it on this laptop (which is my only machine, so I need it for everything else) as the GPU is not swappable. If it's not even able to render a scene with a single figure, then I am wasting my time.

    Unfortunately I can't afford to buy a second machine, not to mention a fancy GPU (which cost an absolute fortune!) So.. sadly, it seems that this art ain't for me. Pity, as I've been really enjoying using DAZ

    Thanks again for your help and your honesty.

    Post edited by ktorrance5 on
  • maximeroy.jr_2e9fb43c8fmaximeroy.jr_2e9fb43c8f Posts: 6

    Hi All

    Maybe help for PC crash user

    My Setup  : Descktop , RTX4090 , i9 12k, MSI Carbone PCI5, 64G Ram 6400Mhz

    Use Daz Sudio ,latest

    Tried on Windows 10Pro and fresh new Windows 11Pro now

    Tried Many Nvidia driver 531.61 to 536.67 ( sudio version )

    Tried many many GPU CPU stres software  without problem

    All setting tested :

    TdrDelay TdrDdiDelay to 240 In RegEdit

    remove all program in Startup Apps

    "Fast Startup on Windows 11" -> off

    "System Configuration" Disable all non Microsoft

    Automaticlly restart -> Disable

    -Setting NVidia Control Panel:

    -Manage 3D Setting:

    -Power Managed Tools -> Prefer High Performance

    -Vertical Sync -> Off

    ---------------------

    Now in render in 4k ->ok Stable

    But to render in 8K -> Crash my PC each  1/4 time 

    The main suspect is NVidia driver with IRay 

    I think Nvidia doesn't care about IRay anymore, just think of the Daz green faces that have been around for a long time.

     

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