Hardware suggestions please
knute-m_df3735ae4c
Posts: 12
Hi!
I've been away from my 3D hobby for a few years and have now begun trying to use Poser and DAZ Studio on my ol' 2008 (Win XP Pro 32-bit) PC. I keep getting "Out of memory" crashes and GL problems (and I don't do any Gaming). Guess it's time to shop for a PC better suited to today's 3D.
There are so many options available that I would really appreciate your suggestions. I guess the Video Card has to be NVIDIA GeForce, but which one and with how much RAM? (NVIDIA GeForce or GeForceGTX: GTX 745, 750Ti, 760Ti, 770, 960, 970, 980, Titan X, etc. and with 2, 4 or 12GB of RAM).
And then there's the CPU: Intel or AMD, and which one (Intel 6th Gen, 4th Gen; i7, i5, i3; Pentium, etc.)?
Lastly, the PC RAM... how much is comfortably sufficient: 4-12GB? Oh, and the OS... I presume Windows 10 (Home or Pro?) is best?
I guess I'm asking what hardware YOU would get if you wanted to run DS and Poser Pro smoothly. Thank you kindly for your time!
~Knute M.
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Comments
There are numerous threads, including some on the front pages of the various sub-boards.
The minimum (desktop) spec for some items if cash isn't a huge issue. (Note: I know very little about Poser Pro, but presume that what will run Daz well will work equally or close on Poser.)
- 16GB RAM
- i7 CPU
- 970 graphics card (borderline minimum) - but preferably a 980ti - if using IRAY. If not interested in IRAY there are some good AMD options, but the power consumption on AMD tends to be higher for the same or similar performance. It should have no less than 4GB or RAM.
- 500GB SSD plus extra storage however you want it - personally I like SSDs there too; backups to something/somewhere else is sensible
- a gold or platinum rated PSU to do what you want now, and some room to add at least one more card and preferably two.
- 1 x display 2560x1440
- mechanical keyboard
- good mouse
- maybe a graphics tablet
Remember that the keyboard, mouse and display can have a direct effect on your health.
But it all depends on budget available and personal preferences and what other uses the computer may be used for.
Note that folks have fun using Daz using much lower spec.
Thanks nicsst!
You answered my questions superbly, but I fear such a system is beyond my means... My fault, since I mentioned nothing about price. But now that I know the ideal system I must re-ask my question for a "reasonably passable, usable but affordable" system... even if somewhat slower, a system that won't choke (GL, memory) on stills in DAZ Studio or PoserPro. (I'll worry about animations later.)
BTW, I use a Wacom tablet, no mice. My display is a 1680x1050 (21") and my KB is just a regular keyboard.
Re storage: I have plenty on external drives so I'd hoped to keep costs down on the new PC with just ONE good internal hard drive. I'm not too familiar with new-fangled stuff; do you suggest that an SSD is better/faster for the C drive?
So, for a cheaper-but-workable PC for DAZ & Poser: Is 8GB RAM insufficient? Is an Intel "6thGen Core i7" mandatory, or will a cheaper CPU work OK? And for the most expensive part... will Poser, DAZS and IRAY(whatever that is) work okay on an NVIDIA card cheaper than a "980ti with 4GB"?
I hate to have to ask, but I fear that card alone is more than I can afford.
Thanks again for your time. I am determined to get my Poser & DS running again!
8GB is very min. You should try to shoot for a bit more, around 16 GB. The bigger and better GPU you have the faster render times you will have along with better performance. I personally am a Intel man and would recommend getting one. They usually benchmark higher than AMD's do. I'd read and research benchmark charts on different models your looking for to see which is better. Intel do run a bit hotter than AMD's do so make sure you have proper cooling. You could think about getting liquid cooling. A standard system would cost about $50-$100 extra. Very inexpensive for the performance you get out of them and don't ever have to worry about overheating your GPU. I have one and my system never gets about 34C even on severely heavy loads on it. You will still need a HD/GPU fan and exhaust fans. If you don't want to get liquid cooling you should at least try to get a full sided case to allow proper air flow and will help with heating issues. The 980ti with 4GB and a very good card for Iray so I'd definitely shoot for that.
CPU http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113359
MOTHERBOARD http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132255
RAM http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233536
SSD HARD DRIVE http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148947
2 GRAPHIC CARDS NVIDIA CUDA CORE http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127860
POWER SUPPLY http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139137
CASE http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811352021
WINDOWS 10 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832588528
This configuration is less than 1,600 bucks. Over 2,000 cuda cores for iRAY and quiet. Something to base from and manipulate to your liking.
Thanks very much for your help!! Two days ago I didn't have a clue as to what to get but you have quickly steered me on the path. Also, today I had to go down to the city where I went to a big computer store (Fry's) and was fortunate enough to speak with 2 good techs there; one knew Poser & one knew DAZ and they corroborated and added to what you guys said.
As I understand it all now I think I need at least a 960(4GB)GeForce; 16GB RAM; a multi-threading CPU (i7)*; an SSD "C" drive (250GB sufficient?**); a good 750Watt PS; and Windows 7 or 8.1***.
*[Apparently the i7 does multi-threading but i5 doesn't. Does that AMD CPU have it?****]
**[A 250GB "C" drive is large enough to hold DAZ Studio, Poser and the OS isn't it? (And then have a second internal "spinner" drive for storage.) Cheaper.]
***[I already own an unused disk of Windows 7Pro and Key so I hope it will be good for my purposes. Besides, I've heard & read that Windows 10 occasionally causes some 3D problems (at least for gamers); Win10 not totally perfected yet, perhaps.]
****[Also, Sone, did you mean to get TWO of those Graphics cards (ouch!-$), or were you referring to the card's "Twin Frozr" cooling?]
Thanks again, all. Now that I pretty well know what to look for I'll be shopping for the best deals now.
Any multi-core CPU does multi-threading - the extra that the i7 brings is hyperthreading, the ability to use "spare" capacity on a core as a second pretend core. In my limited experience a quad i7 is about as fast as if it had five or six real cores in 3Delight, so it is a useful gain there.
There are definite benefits to an SSD, but I'd give one up if it meant getting a 970 instead of a 960; or a 980 instead of a 970, or even a 980ti instead of a 980. I'd sooner have 16GB of RAM than 8 with an SSD.
Yes I did mean 2. My thought process was geared towards iRAY. 2 cards will crunch away rendering at the same time. I have a GTX 970 and a GT 740 in one machine. When I render with both it is a little bit quicker so 2 GTX 960's would be sweet rendering at the same time. Those 2 cards are equivalent in price to a GTX 980 ( I also have a 980 in another PC) and will render quicker crunching away together.
I like Fry's
2 gtx960 shouldn't be any faster than a gtx980 because the same number of cuda cores is involved. A single gtx 980ti would be much faster.
Whilst the advantage of two 960s would be one to render whilst you can continue to work with the other and your display and general computer usage should remain decent, I wouldn't go that way. A better combo would be two 970s or preferably a 970 and a 980ti. A cheaper 970 is not much more than a 4GB 960.
If money is tight, a 970 now, with another card when it can be afforded.
I used a 640GT with the 970 I had for rendering until I could afford better. My display struggled slightly with heavier scenes with my 2560x1440 display, but I'm glad I went that way; I'd like 2x 980ti, but feel the best value/performance, failing that, is what I suggested: the 970 and 980ti.
When I got the 980ti, I swapped the 970 and put the 980ti where the 970 used to be. I would expect the the 960s to be slightly slower than a 980 as there is not perfect scaling. Although personally, I think the 980 is pooer value than the other cards
Hi,
Intresting thread that will help me...
Can I add one more question?
Is it better to choose a i7 4790K+ 32 GB DDR3 2400MHz + Nvidia GTX980 or or i7 6700K + 32GB DDR4 2666 MHz + Nvidia GT970 ? Budget is the same for those config but I don't know what's best to choose.
Is 32GB too much? Maybe in 3 month I can afford a GT970 in SLI so what do you think I should choose?
Which render engine do you use - Iray or 3Delight? Which other applications do you use?
Consider going for the i7 6700 Skylake processor and DDR4 config. It is more future proof being the latest and greatest. DDR4 is expensive right now but the price will drop as it becomes more common and price competitive. Consider just going with 16 gigs of ram right now. You can always add more down the road easily. Maybe then you can get the 980 card. This would be a real sweet start and build. :)
Sone's comments are spot on imo, although I think the 980, falling between the 980ti and the 970 is not the best choice. But it's about budget as much as anything.
For rendering, do NOT use SLI, it causes problems; this is from Nvidia, so if you game as well you need to bear that in mind. I've no idea if disabling the SLI in software is sufficient to resolve the issues, or if the bridge needs removing.
I think that RAM speed is the least of the variables for performance and pales in comparison to faster CPU or more CUDA cores / VRAM in a GPU.
I would take more RAM over faster, but less RAM any day. Iagree that a GTX980 may not be the best choice. It has about 25% more CUDA cores than a 970 but the same RAM. The 980TI has about 50% more CUDA cores and 50% more RAM. I would put moeny saved on CPU RAM speed toward the 980TI. I might even go with a slightly slower CPU since for rendering it won't matter as much as the GPU.
Thanks all for keeping the thread moving up and on. I've been studying your helpful suggestions and now have quotes from 2 local builders. I told them what basic hardware, and said it was for "regular" use plus my 3D hobby of Poser, DS, Fractals and maybe Iray (the only rendering I've been able to do thus far is Firefly.) Both quotes are around $1000-$1250 (that's with me providing the Win7 Pro 64-bit disk, and them installing it). This is for a complete desktop PC build including:
CPU: Intel i7-4790 3.6 8MB [[[~Is this i7 good for our purposes (Poser/DAZ)? (I was surprised to find there are so many different i7's available.).]]]
VidCard: GTX960 4GB [[[~I will get the GTX970 if I can afford it; Is it significantly better/different for our purposes than the 4GB-GTX960? ]]]
RAM: 16GB DDR3 1600MHz [[[~please suggest if it's significantly important to use the DDR4 ]]]
"C" Drive: SSD (240-360GB, haven't decided size yet. Secondary drive will be a WD 1TB.) [[[~Anyone here have troubles using such a small primary drive? ]]]
Power Supply: 500-600W bronze [[[~I started out looking for a 750W but all the techies here say that's overkill. So, is 500-600W enough for my desktop? ]]]
MB: The MoBos in my 2 quotes are: [1.) MSI Z79S SLI Krait] and [2.) 1150 Gigabyte GA-Z97X-SLI ATX] Hope they're okay.
Sure, if my budget could go much over $1K I'm sure I (we) would choose some higher-end hardware. The system I have outlined above may not be a perfect "dream" system for 2015, but I do think and hope it is pretty darn good/reasonably good for Poser Pro 2014, DAZ Studio 4.8, Iray rendering. Do you agree, and what fine-tuning would you suggest? I want to give one of my builders the go-ahead soon. Much thanks again for all your tips!
SSDs are great, and I have a few, but they are an area you could save money, but it's down to preference; they won't contribute to your rendering times, but they will make the system more snappy; however, I'd sooner have 16GB of memory than 8 with an SSD.
It's my personal preference.
8GB and you're likely to see swap being used, and an SSD is still a lot slower than system memory. Your builders should not disable swap btw; there are reports out there that recommend that with an SSD - bad idea.
The SSD will be OK, but you'll have just enough room for programs; make sure not save anything on the C drive. Installing the Daz library elsewhere is easy enough. Also set up the download folder (for internet use) to the mechanical HD. All the browsers allow this.
BTW, look for a gold or platinum PSU; rendering will really push it; and a larger PSU will make upgrading or adding (especially the adding) of more graphics cards easier. And other upgrades too. You don't need it now, so it could be a saving, but better quality is worth looking at; gold and platinum are also cheaper to run. The electric bill payer might appreciate that.
Sorry for late replay, I didn't have any notification when I logged and thought there was no response (I am really noob here)
I don't really know yet. My actual pc is very slow but I just tried Iray because I have a Nvidia card.
Ok, so I'll go directly on 980gti then
Ok, So if I resume best would be I6700k+DDR4 16Go (to begin with) + 980TI I think it would fit my budget (around with a 256Gb ssd 1500/1700€)
Thank all for helping
That's real nice bubba! You're going to enjoy that PC you set up and configured yourself. :)
Because I7 6700k is out of stock do you think I should wait or i7 5930k is a available alternative (there's an offoer and it cost "only" 100€ more than actual 6700k price when i find it) ?
There's always an argument for spending more.:) If you can afford it, go for it; will it actually benefit you? I've no idea.
If you're spending 1000, and the 100 is ten percent of the cost you were going to spend, you need to ask if it will be 10% more useful. Personally, I doubt it. :)
It didn't stop me spending everything I could afford, even though what I was going to get changed; I don't regret spending what I did. Now I had planned to get a dual Xeon, but ended up spending about 1500 when I upgraded last year; I'm glad I didn't go dual Xeon, but may next time.
So it isn't only how much you can afford, but how much it is wise to afford; balance you hobby/career with other aspects of your life. And a career use, justifies more sometimes than a hobby. That's my take on the increase.
My suggestion is to wait. It is real nice processor that's why it is temporarily out of stock. Future proofs you also down the road for system upgrades.
Yeah i
Isn't it out of stock mostly because it's cheaper and good enough for Video Games? But I can't find subject or benchmark with Daz so I'll get your point and wait
Already have an expensive hobby (but want to make it my job) which is photography :) But if I can afford 100€ more but i'd like to add 10% extra if it bring 10% extra perf not just to spend it to have my computer sooner.
Sorry if I'm late posting this. The 6700K is faster with a single core but the 5930K (or even the less expensive 5820K) has 2 more cores so it is faster at multi-tasking and with applications that make use of those extra cores. Rendering in DAZ with 3Delight would make use of the extra cores. See the link for a more detailed stat comparison. If you use iray the graphics card will be more important than the CPU for rendering.
http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Core-i7-6700K-vs-Intel-Core-i7-5930K
Out of curiosity, I'm considering this pre-built unit for a Black Friday splurge to replace my aging first-gen i7:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883102107
My husband used to build our PC's, but he's been out of the business a couple of years now and would rather just buy a pre-built machine. I need something... I guess really middle of the road. I need it for rendering (just as a hobbyist) as well as gaming, and it's in my budget (add 34% for CDN currancy exchange). Are there any reasons to not consider this one?
Nothing wrong with those components. Your PSU is fine for what you have now, but if you want to add an extra card, it might not be enough. Doesn't say if its rating is: Bronze, Silver, Gold or Platinum.
16GB of RAM I presume; might be better to get a 240GB SSD, but as long as you don't have lots of apps to install, it will be fine. But you're a gamer, it isn't a lot of space for the OS, and the various programs; I presume you'll be installing Daz content to the mechanical hard drive as it has 2TB, and certainly isn't room for it on the SSD.
Personally I prefer Windows Pro to Home, it is more versatile, and on Windows 10 easier to customise updates (etc.).