Confuse! My morph acts unexpectedly
James
Posts: 1,025
This is how my figure looks like on my hijab initially on non Gen 9 base figure.
I exported to Blender to fix stuffs.
But I didn't touch/sculpt the head area.
But somehow after morph loading
And set the morph to 100%, there are bumps on her head.
Why? How to fix this?
(images were removed by mod due to nudity. Please look at this thread for appropriate ways to post. https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/3279/acceptable-ways-of-handling-nudity#latest )
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Post edited by James on
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Comments
Zero hijab's and export to obj;
Fix in Blender and export obj;
Import obj with Morph Loader Pro : Reverse Deformations - Yes and Overwrite Existing - Delta Only
That's what I did and get the bumps
Ahya ... weird.. should not be like that... Hmm, is the hijab with dForce modifier? Have you cleared the simulation result ?
dforce modifier > yep
Clear > yep
I tested something.
Even when I just exported it and imported back the geometry without sculpting it at all, it created bumps.
strange.
Maybe G9 bug?
Going by the mesh image -- check for and fix all those 5 sided faces. When D/S exports out 5 sided faces, it "fixes" the mesh and invariably the end result is not likely pleasing.
It's the typical 'quadrangulated' mesh from MD... I'm confused. OP: any smoothing modifier on hijab with high iteration value there?
did you try converting to subd in daz?
Well it looks like it has some goofies which need fixing esp. if they are what's causing the problem.
Can see n-gons, D/S does not like n-gons and 'fixes' them ... also just fyi, some of the stretching mesh action there, IF that had been made in Hexagon one would also need to look for some line welding to be done.
Mmm... there's no n-gon.
Marvelous designer doesnt make n-gon (a face with more than 4 vertices, right?).
And the lines are welded.
The welded option is ticked when exporting from MD.
any smoothing modifier on hijab with high iteration value there?
Off
did you try converting to subd in daz?
yes
I experimented also with another G9 figure and a hijab made by other people,
export it, sculpt a bit, do morphloader, the result is a mess.
The similar behaviour occur.
BUT if I used F8.1 and use the other hijab
Repeat the process.
The result was good.
Soo.... G9 must have some kind of a problem.....
I'm lazy to make one in MD, or you may attach obj file that we may try, see if we can reproduce the issue...
Okay, was just an idea as it looked to me like there might have been. Hope you find your solution.
@crosswind
Here it is.
Use it on G9 Figure.
@barbult
Doesn't seems so
@Catherine3678ab
Thank you.
Have you made cloth with G9 and create a morph for a certain figure?
Got it ~ I checked the hijab, you saved it as the Figure asset / Wearable with dForced result... as screenshot 1 - 2, so it was the culprit...that was why I first asked you about the dForce modifier and clearance...
If you'd like to use the 'dForced result' as the base geometry of the hijab, you simulate it first and then export it as obj and import it back to DS. Then use Transfer Utility to make it 'refitted' to the figure, and save as Figure asset, as shown in screenshot 3 - 4.
@crosswind
That's not the problem I'm dealing....
After you put it on a figure
Clear the dforce as you think it should.
Try export the hijab, fix it on blender make the head area smooth, no bump.
Make it something like this:
Reimport it again as a morph (morph loader pro)...
See if the morph result will be exactly as you sculpted on blender or not.
In my case it's not.
I reproduced the issue you met (SS 1-2), and still it came from that you saved the hijab figure with the dForced result. When Morph Loader Pro 'reversed deformations', the geometry (vertex positions) turned wrong.
So never save figure asset with 'dforce simulation result'. Correct way is shown in SS 3 - 4. (almost the same approach as I mentioned above...)
1-2
3-4
I see that you are using the base model.
Try using not the Base Model.
You see, I don't experience any problem with the hijab put on the base model.
It works as it should, with all the morphs imported using morph loader pro.
My problem starts to occur on a certain figure. In my case 'Helena'.
As I mentioned (or tried to explain), I was trying to make a morph to make the hijab looks correct on a certain figure.
I tried your solution - Clearing dforce.
So, I start again.
I put the hijab on base model.
Clear dforce.
Save as wearable.
Next,
I Load Helena figure
Put hijab on Helena.
Export it, fix it.
Import as a morph - Morp Loader Pro.
Doesn't work. It doesn't morph as sculpted.
As you can see the hijab on Helena has some minor issues on the back. Which I tried to fix, including smoothing the head area.
https://prnt.sc/x5heFE1DmXtn
I did not use G9 Base, it is JS Sarah... I don't have Helena and your issue is irrelevant to the character morph.
You've not got the point yet... You 'Figure asset of Hijab saved with a dForced sim. result' won't work on any G9 base or character when you go for fixing morph with external application and import back as a delta morphs.
I made and converted lots of clothing w. or w/o dForce but never save Figure asset in that way, my PA friends (who make garments) don't do that either.... so suggest you go for the correct way.
Since you pointed about the dforce saved simulation result on my hijab.
I made the correction. By hitting the clear button on the simulation pane.
And save it again.
But it didn't work for me.
Then...
I see something.
Here's the difference
The image number 3. Step 1-3
If you do that, the hijab will work only for Sarah.
That's the similar process as when I created the hijab for the base model only (with minor differences)
Every morphs, I made afteraward also works flawlessly. No complaint.
So the correct way you mentioned, I already applied it at the beginning.
The problem started when I wanted to make the hijab also work on different body,
by making morphs for the intended body. (Dforce simulation cleared as suggested)
for example:
Helena Body,
Sarah Body,
and so on body.
Could you make the hijab that you have created for Sarah works on different body,
by making a morph, so it will work on multiple bodies?
Cos here's where I meet my problem.
I've already shown the right way and steps above: - clear > export > import > Refit with Transfer Utility > Save figure asset...
The reason why I used a character morph was just because I thought you did not use G9 Base figure, so I just replicated your case so as to reproduce the issue.
You must've known the best way to make a garment is always to use a Base figure other than a custom figure, no matter you're a user or a PA / author...
That was great if you've done so from very beginning !
Right, no problem for this process since you were creating FHMs / FBMs for the hijab to make it well fit on the figures you use.
Nope~ extra work will be needed. I also have to go for the above process to make FHMs / FBMs on hijab as needed.
BTW, I recommend Mada's Daz University, you may watch her SOP and tips/tricks... though she nearly doesn't use MD but the process in DS is almost the same.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ii16tUmLzD8&list=PL2SdKrOTXeXA1qMgNE84AsM8_Wq63gOBF
Well, thank you for your time and effort, you've given me.
I've taken a look MADA's lesson on FBM.
The steps are the similar to what I did.
But her lessons is using GF8.
And I can do FBM on GF8 without problem.
But the same steps used on G9.
Problem.
Well I could only say there's no problem on my side.. If there were really any problem with G9 for this matter, we must've known from some products from PAs... So just take it easy and have some more experiments.
Yes but not with MD.
eta: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/597726/genesis-9-clothing-questions-answers
There are some differences for G9, some nifty clothing tools were added to D/S as well, so consider combing through the above link. Mada started the thread and does provide some guidance in there for us :-)
...................
In making any type of replacement morph, there are a few things to remember: D/S will only accept ONE name for ONE morph. A second morph with the same name will be ignored. So in making FBMs for example, the generated one is not a saved morph so that can be 'renamed' on the fly, and your preferred new morph named appropriately to replace it. IF for whatever reason the generated morph was saved, then it must renamed and saved before creating the new morph OR if you're into the method of changing an existing morph and resaving that on the fly, same idea. {not my preferred method}
Also when making morphs, it doesn't hurt to remove the clothing from the scene and load in a fresh copy to continue working with -- to make certain that the morphs are saved as desired etc before moving on.
Remember to zero morphs before saving them.
And ... when dialing out of the figure the character shape, and if then the clothing looks real silly -- select the clothing and check that all the morphs were zeroed. The generated morph might be dialed to -100% or so even if it was renamed -- there's an awful lot of calculations that the program does in the background ;-)
Crosswind was able to replicate what the problem you encountered was and provided good guidance. After taking a break, come back to reread through it. Something should 'click' for you soon enough.
Okay had a little time so brought the Hijab into D/S. Sent it over the bridge to Hexagon. Made it to fit better on the Default G9. Sent it back over the bridge to D/S as a Prop. [removed the original Hijab]
Ran the transfer utility to make the obj into clothing [bones for a full bodysuit 'cause it's covering a number of areas], smoothing on, Added a dforce sim thing and ran one simulation [I normally start with 30 seconds on the timeline]. Sent that Hijab back over the bridge to Hexagon and smoothed it out a bit.
btw - confirmed, yes there are no holes and no n-gons :-)
Then sent the Hijab back over to D/S as an .obj and fixed up the surfaces. Ran the Transfer Utility and made it into clothing.
And not to be overly concerned about making a million FBM/FHM morphs ... think you'll find that IF the garment is made to the Default G9, it will auto-follow pretty nicely for many of the available figures. Right now I do not have many to test with, one older woman and one gorilla for example. And in none of the shapes did strange lumps appear in the top of the headdress.
And of course the images won't load. Back in a minute with a link.
Here we go:
https://www.deviantart.com/catherine3678ab/art/Minerva-9-970462641
https://www.deviantart.com/catherine3678ab/art/1-for-default-G9-970462638
Hai @Catherine3678ab
Thank you for your time testing it.
The lump/bump always happens only when I tried to make a FBM morph.
With or without dforce clearance.
I read a couple of times of crosswind and your writtings.
The steps that both of you didn't do is making an FBM morph.
(I hope I get the technical term correct.)
Basically what both of you did is making a new conforming cloth to a body.
That's why both of you use transfer utility.
Which won't show the problem. As myself didn't find any problem when doing it myself.
If there were 5 bodies and I did steps like both of you did. I'm sure there'll be zero problem.
The problem only appears when I'm trying to make a FBM morph (or is it FHM morph?)
So... my steps:
1. I put the hijab in a certain G9 figure. Usually there will be a bit of deformation.
2. Sent it to 3D editor as obj, blender or whatever. Fix it.
3. Import it back through morph loader pro to make the FBM morph.
Both of you didn't use the morph loader pro.
Aren't steps 1-3 how PA makes FBM morph?
Could you... try it with the hijab?
Maybe you could find something wrong, either me or the G9.
If you have the time of course.
Not really:
Sure, I'll give it a go next round.
Something to watch for with any FBM or for a particular character, is which morph(s) are in play. For eg. There can be a FHM and a FBM - dialing in either one will only affect the Head or the Body - or there is dialing in the "controller" morph which does 2 things, it dials in both the FHM and FBM AND it dials in any additional morphs required for a particular character [i.e. height].
For figures with separate head and body morphs, be careful to only morph one area at a time in the hijab [here is where reverse deformations helps when making the 2nd morph].
There were 'no' extra big bumps on the top when I made a couple of FHMs.
https://www.deviantart.com/catherine3678ab/art/No-Big-Bumps-On-Head-970584247
Hmmm... how did you do it exactly?
I only know these steps:
1. I put the hijab in a certain G9 figure. Usually there will be a bit of deformation.
2. Sent it to 3D editor as obj, blender or whatever. Fix it.
3. Import it back through morph loader pro
Before bringing it back in to make the morph through morph loader pro {or the Hexagon bridge for those using Hexagon} in D/S select only the Hijab {remember mine was just made, with no attached dforce simulation things}.
On the Parameters Tab find the hidden used morph which is for the head. {or if is only 1 shape that's fine, then select that one} It is a "generated morph." Zero it. {don't mind what it looks like now}
Right-click on the dial and click on "Edit" to toggle on edit mode. Then click on the tog wheel and click on Parameters. Find 'the name' and copy that info {might want to paste it into notepad}. RENAME that generated morph. {I also rename the label so it's easy to identify later on}{Give it something sensible like "don't save" or "delete"}
Now bring in the new shape to make the morph.
Paste in the name or type it in "exactly" the same as the generated morph had been named.
It should 'pop' to 100%, if it doesn't dial it in. If it's a keeper, wonderful.
Polish it {I call mine morph/shape, i.e. not generated, use limits, set min. to zero, put it in tree maybe under Hidden and check hide if you really want it hidden, color the dials as please}
Then with the hijab still selected go to File > Save as > morph ... find and select ONLY THE ONE new morph that was just made by you.
Then, delete the hijab from the scene. Select the figure. Load in a fresh hijab. Your morph should be looking as desired on the figure. Dial the shape out/in on the figure, then select the Hijab and the new morph should be there {toggle show hidden on of course}.