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I while away the render time by browsing this forum or catching up on my social media. Anything to reduce that render time is of value to me. I only do this as a creative hobby and I don't publish or share any of my renders - in fact I usually delete them soon after completing a project because the next idea is already brewing in my head. It is a little like reading books or watching movies - I rarely want to read a book again after finishing it. So I don't need huge storage space for past projects - they are gone.
I'd get into animation more but the render time is a major disincentive. I find the 4070 I have now to be almost as quick as the 3090 that died so I'm seriously considering a second 4070 to improve on that.
An SSD does help, but not really that much. I have a Samsung EVO dedicated to DS and that doesn't help as much as one would hope, it is SATA, but that's fine for this type of use. What really helps is Turbo Loader. I truly believe that Turbo is a must have for Daz users. It kind of should be part of DS by default, considering the problem it solves is of their own design (the software is the true bottleneck, not the hardware), but regardless it is THE best product you can buy for your library. Full stop. I personally did not think Turbo Loader would be a big deal, but then I tried it and it blew me away. It is certainly cheaper than a 4TB M.2! Now a SSD will help with other stuff, like just browsing your files and other software not made by Daz can benefit greatly from SSD. A CPU helps here as well, as it directs the traffic, but you don't need a powerful CPU for that task, unless your PC is really old.
I can't recommend Turbo Loader enough.
Also, the newer versions of 4.21 speed up loading some, too. So there's that. But Turbo Loader evens the score. Like I always suggest, if you don't have the newer DS, get the beta so you can try it out first. I keep my beta pretty up to date, while holding on to my trusty 4.16 general release with an iron grip. The new version does do somethings better. Some things. So I will use the beta at times instead of 4.16. The beta is the logical branch to keep up to date, IMO, since it upates a lot more frequently.
...my case is actually a "tall" midsize case (between a mid and full size). It has 7 fans including a large filtered 200MM intake fan on the left panel and all metal construction and wide enough to accommodate a Dark Rock Pro 4 CPU cooler for the 5900X. Unfortunately the case is no longer available. I like to keep all my panels on to reduce dust contamination (again all intakes have fine mesh washable filters). .This case was also not inexpensive when I bought it.
Like yourself I don't care much the window which today seems to be the norm rather than exception (rather have that intake fan there). I also prefer to have everything in one package than scattered about (only my backup is external).
Again for now I'm just looking to get into the "present day" with the 3060 as the primary render card and Titan for running the displays. The 4060Ti is tempting but would be a later upgrade as I'm still trying to stash money away for the initial rebuild.(which has been slow going on my fixed income).
Well, I have a webcomic, so my workflow is to build the next scene and write the dialogue
for previous renders while the latest one renders.
Which is also why I stick to Studio 4.12, so I can have two Studio windows to work in at the same time.
Twin 3060s are fast enough for that. Other people may have a different need for speed.
When I built this new computer, I considered a 3090, but my scenes aren't that large or complex.
...about 12 years. Started with an i7 930 and "upgraded" to a 6 core Xeon 5660. The MB is an ASUS P6T with X58 chipset LGA 1366 CPU socket, PCIe 2.0 slots and DDR3 DIMM slots. The last and final BIOS update for this board was something like 11 years ago (back when we were still in the 3DL days for rendering). Other than that It's been soldiering on faithfully. The real "brick wall" I'm facing is that I'm still on W7 Pro (upgraded from Home Premium several years ago) so I'm at the end of the line with version 4.21.0.5 which specifies the last Nvidia driver that supports W7. Hence I'm missing out on new advancements and fixes.
The driver requirement of all beta's afterwards only support W10 or 11. With 10 at it's last update cycle I'm looking at W11, and that is why I am faced with having to upgrade the MB which also means new memory and a new CPU, as well as a beefier CPU cooler. (which on my pension is a seriously major expense).
Right now, to get every Turbo Loader that I'd like to have, I'd have to spend around $140.00.
You're right, Studio should already do this, but since it's really a sales promoter for the DAZ store,
not including it makes sense. I'll wait for another sale.
I went to a 2TB 7000GPS NVME C: drive from a 7200RPM spinner, and the improvements in load speeds
were very impressive. That's almost 12X as fast as an SSD. For everything I do, not just for Studio. But
I'm running out of space.
So moving to a pair of 4TB NVME drives makes sense for me.
...I take it that's Kingston KC3000 PCIe 4.0 NVMe M.2 SSD with a data transfer rate of 7000MB/s. Yeah a bit out of my budget. I'll stay with SATA SSDs for now even though the MB I'm looking at does have two NVME M2 slots.
The Turbo Loader seems a much less expensive option for now.
Hi, Kyoto, looking at a recent post of yours, I'd say your upgrade looks good, but the CPU is probably overkill. Realistically, you start getting diminishing returns in DS after 6 cores. 8 cores is probably the sweet spot. I know you probably have future proofing in mind, but really the motherboard is way more important and even then you're trying to guess what what industry standards are going to be 5+ years in the future.
I'm not trying to talk you out of anything, I'm just saying there's a case to be made for upgrading a mid-range system every 4 years or so vs trying to keep a high-end system running 6+ years down the road, dealing with OS incompatibility, no BIOS upgrades, and whatever else might come up (the same stuff you're dealing with now).
If nothing else though, the longer it takes you to upgrade, the more value you lose on the 3060 you've already bought. That thing only has a limited life span. Once Nvidia decides to stop supporting it (like Fermi, Kepler, Maxwell, and eventually Pascal) that's it.
I have a 5700G (8-core, cut down from a 5800) and I don't really have any apps that fully utilize it (DS, Stable Diffusion, Blender, Planetary Annihilation: Titans, Spider-Man Remastered, etc). The main benefit is that I can do multiple things at once (3D rendering while using Stable Diffusion, listening to streaming video in the background, plus my usual 15 tabs open on Firefox spread across 4 desktops) so if that's your thing, by all means, go for it. I just don't want you to think 12 cores is going to speed up Daz Studio, or extend the life of your system because it probably won't.
Also: It won't help with plug-ins, generally. Physics sims (dForce, strand based hair, Mantaflow(Blender), Bullet physics(Blender), Houdini, etc) generally have low CPU or GPU utilization. It's not because the software's "not optimized" as gamers love to say, it's just that some tasks don't parallelize well. The only physics engine I've seen that works in real time is Nvidia Flex, but it hasn't been exported to many apps.
Just a thought.
Western Digital SN850X.
The 2TB is considerably cheaper, that's what I have now.
I asked WD customer service for a discount before I ordered, and they gave
me 10% off my entire order.
It was nice, since I was building my entire computer at the time.
Crucial will do that, too.
They're a lot more useful to me than Turbo Loader, as the drives speed up
everything on my computer, not just Studio load times.
Studio is pretty slow on everything, not just load times. But I use mostly
G1-G3, so it doesn't get too bad until I add a rare G8 character like Betty
Bunny.
Upgrades aren't really necessary as long as the equipment does what you want it to do.
I'm running Studio on a Win7 computer with a 17 6700 processor, 64GB of 3200 ram, and
a 1080Ti and I plan on using it, well, forever. It just works, that's all.
Yes, my new computer with all the latest stuff renders six times faster, but I didn't really NEED it.
I'd bought a couple of 3060s on sale, then found out that they wouldn't work on Win7. So, I
built a new computer for them. $3,000 later and I kind of wish I hadn't, because the one I built
in 2016 still works fine.
Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
Don't tell that to my 3060 12GB, as I'm running DS on W7
...there is other software I use besides Daz that takes advantage of all cores.
I looked at the 5700X (I don't need integrated graphics as I will be using the Titan to drive the displays) but it isn't that much cheaper than a 5800X that has a faster base clock.(odd that having no integrated graphics costs more). The one component that I would not save much in he downscaling would be the cooling unit. I am not interested in messing around with water cooling (particularly in a homebuild) so one the best air cooler units available are still rather pricey .Several articles I looked at still highly recommend the Dark Rock Pro 4 Cooler Te one I selected to cool the 105 W 5900X (89 USD). I know there are lower priced units but the better the cooling the better for the CPU.
When I build a system I try to "future proof" itr as much as possible while providing a bit of "overhead" in resources for those really big jobs.(I kind of take the old school "Boeing approach" of "overbuilding" a system). That is what I did when I designed the system I currently have which, when finished was an absolute beast of a machine. Of course back then we only had 3DL at the time so a GPU card was pretty unnecessary unless you also were into gaming (which I am not). A modest 1 GB card more than served my needs as it just had to drive the displays. Of coruse the introduction of Iray in Daz changed all that. (the total cost was about 1,450 USD sans display as I already had one a friend gave me.
Moving down to a 5700X does drop the cost to 782 USD saving me 129 USD.(basically the price difference between the two CPUs. I could save another 44 USD moving to an Arctic Freezer 34 eSports Duo (also with dual fans which would be adequate for the 5700X) bringing the total cost own to around 738 USD.
it is a suggestion I will consider though still will take some time to scrape up what I need,
BTW I use PC Part PIcker to run different build configurations through as it also tests for compatibility.
Maybe it was Studio 4.12, then. I wish I'd downloaded a copy of 4.15, that seems to be the best. 4.21 is... not good.
I use the integrated graphics to drive the monitor because when I drove the monitor
off of the graphics card, it made the display choppy when I was trying to do something else
while rendering. Of course, some motherboards won't let you do that.
...I've been running 4.21.0.5 on my Win7 system and it's been pretty stable.
You only need Turbo loader for the specific Genesis causing the most slowdown, the one you have the most morphs for. Even with a SSD Turbo Loader cut my load times by more than half. Some of my characters load in under 10 seconds, though most take a bit longer. I can load a whole scene that uses 12gb of VRAM fairly quickly. Odds are only G8F or M are clogging up the pipes, considering they have been around longer than 1-2-3's active periods combined (as 8 still gets content for it today.)
I have over 15,000 morphs for G8F, and I forget how many for G8M. I didn't bother getting G8M's Turbo Loader. A bunch of morphs come from hidden joint correctors that go with specific morphs. Those bloat up a library fast. I didn't turn everything off with Turbo Loader, either. I still have several thousand morphs active, so it isn't like you need to disable everything to get better times.
Of course get it on sale.
You really want your library on one disc, and hopefully on its own dedicated drive. If you were thinking of spreading it out over 2 drives, that can get messy. Accessing 2 drives at the same time for data can also slow them down.
Some motherboards and CPUs have limts when using multiple M.2s. Some boards with 3 M.2 slots can only use 2 of them with some CPUs. Some combos may also limit bandwidth. Something to be aware of.
...indeed G8 tends to be the major culprit particularly as I've loaded it sown with morphs and shapes as well through a combination of Genesis X2 (to G3) then XTransfer (to G8) so I find he G8 one the most useful.
Yeah my Genesis "gene pool" is pretty huge.
That $500 price point really hurts, I have a 3060 and I really love this card but with the stuff I render I'm almost always very close to the 12GB limit. I also do a bit of animation work, 360 rotations of figures @ 60fps so I'm outputting a lot of single frames and rendering that in Davinci. Right now I'm doing a test animation of 300+ frames for something and I'm on frame 120 after almost 9 hours. Each frame is rending at 5 minutes per frame, now I really suck at math but if I was using a 4060ti instead, I wonder what frame I'd currently be on.
hi jpark, thanks for posting the benchies and the information on the viewport and stuff. crazy helpful since i think you are the first posting this, and the 4060ti 16gb is the card i am most interested in rite now. currently i am running DS on an acer nitro laptop intel i7-10750H, 3060 with 6gb of vram (cos laptop version is less vram), 32gb ram. and boy, i can't even load two char most of the time on a bare hdri map, (and a normal map? can't even move properly after loading). my viewport is sluggish af, like most of the time it takes like 20-45 seconds to move! making it unbearable to work with! and i had had it, and want to build my first pc so i don't have the viewport and not enough vram problem anymore! XD
tldr: how is the viewport performance? is it too slow to work comfortably? good enough but always feel just a tad slow? feels fast enough? please be as descriptive as you can!
how many models can you put on the 16gb?
my needs are 6-8 models and on large maps. basically i am working on a superhero vn. so lots of chars, and lots of places. and as much details and quality as i can put in it. thank you!
other peeps, please do chime in. thank you!
and oh if anyone runs blender, what do you think of this setup. basically i plan on using DS and Blender mostly on this rig.
my current list of pc parts that i have scoped, please do comment on the build and your thoughts on it:
asus rtx 4060ti 16gb
asrock z690 itx
intel 13500 (you guys think this is powerful enough for the 4060ti 16gb, so there won't be bottleneck, or is the 13600k better suited?)
noctua NH-L9i-17xx chromax.black
corsair vengeance ddr4 64gb vram
1 x 2tb solidigm p44 nvme (for os and DS and other program, blender etc)
1 x 4tb k3000 nvme (for assets, is putting assets in sata ssd ok tho? or will it suffer too much speed loss and slow DS down?)
corsair sf 750w psu
more context below
this has made me want to revenge!!! get as much vram as my budget allow! XD 3060 12gb i am afraid won't cut it after getting really bad performance on the 6gb vram, and the 3090/4090 24gb are out of reach budget wise currently, or not what i would like to spend for my first pc build. so the 4060ti 16gb seems like a godsent for my needs. tho its pretty funny that all reviewers on yt pretty much say its the worst card in existence, pretty much gamers, and i guess i agree after seeing the stats. but for daz tho, that 16gb vram is just chef kiss!
i just don't want the nightmare of running out of vram again! but another crazy important thing is the viewport on my laptop, its crazy slow and basically can get stuck for like 45sec - 1 minute sometimes! and DS can't run properly at all unless i just use 1-2 most basic g8 models and some basic hair, if i even dare to try some fancy hair, the viewport stutters to a crawl, and i can't even render them and get the black render screen.
this has made me want to get a graphic card, or cpu, to make sure i don't have any problems with viewport speed, and i am obsessed at getting a fast viewport speed, as advice i read said that fast viewport is very important for workflow and keeps the creative decisions flowing.
i know from your description above that the 4080 has faster viewport than the 4060ti 16gb, and that people say get a 3090 for that viewport speed, but do you think the viewport speed on the 4060ti 16gb is good enough? like is it better than average, just average? how is it when you load multiple char and a large map?
thanks for sharing and peeps do chime in! thank you
Are you saying that RAID0 is slower than a single drive?
One can also have one Content Library spread over several drives when using mounted drives and/or junctions.
I figured that might be the case. I was just checking. I like your choice of motherboard. Despite the recent bad press, ASUS is still my favorite. The only drawback with mine is it only has one USB-C port, but it's enough for now.
You mean two instances running? That hasn't been removed, just regularised Daz Studio Pro 4.12 - instances
I don't think there is much of a point to raid0 with SSD. Back in the old days, sure, whatever. The move to SSD from HDD is enough for most use cases by simply removing seek times on a spinning platter. After that you get dimishing returns. Sure, it can be faster, but is a second faster worth it? The issue with Daz Studio is its software, and no amount of hardware is going to make Daz Studio load Genesis with lots of morphs fast. You might get it to go faster, but not drastically faster, than a regular SSD setup. Again, we are talking about Daz Studio here. Maybe some other software see more benefits, but I have no complaints about my other software loading, it is only Daz Studio. If software was not the bottleneck, then they would not have been able to improve loading speeds in 4.21 like they did. That proves that software is the main bottleneck, and that hardware will only get you so far.
I also like to have my content drive easily removeable, no fiddling. I have an asset drive, no other software touches this drive. I never need to redownload anything and I can take it anywhere. That is hardly practical with a multidisc setup.
Aside from that, with raid0 if one of the drives has a problem you lose all of the data on both drives. Meaning you need a bigger backup to cover the combined capacity of the drives in raid0. I guess you could raid0 your backup, too, lol.
Well, I finally decided what to do with my Warranty claim. I had a 3090 which died on me so I bought a 4070 to replace it and, at the same time, retruned the 3090 for a claim as it was under 3 years old (just). They told me that it would take up to 3 months to process the claim which is one of the reasons I bought the 4070. It actually took 3 weeks, not months, so now I have a store credit for the cost of the 3090 and I have the 4070 installed and running.
My initial idea was to get a second 4070 and intall it alongside the first. Then I thought I might buy this 4060 ti instead because it has 16GB VRAM and run that with the 4070 which only has 12 but I abandoned that idea for various reasons. Ideally I would have liked a 4090 but the store credit was pretty far short of what that store is charging for a 4090 and I have also paid out for the 4070.
So - TLDR - I decided to buy a 4080 and sell the 4070. That leaves me with a chunk of change in Store Credit plus whatever I get for the 4070. The 4080 performance specs are impressive and I can be sure it will run with my 800W PSU becuase it draws less power than the 3090. And bonus - the 4080 has 16GB VRAM.
ASUS PROART NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4080 OC 16GB
Nope.
Thanks for the update. Like most non-Americans, I follow TV shows and movies which give me some idea of day-to-day living over there. I'm a Brit living in New Zealand but there's so many similarities here in NZ to my homeland that I tend to think of them as one place. When I visited the USA I was quite surprised by the significantly different atmosphere and culture despite being used to watching all those TV shows.
most American TV shows are wishes and hopes, a dreamland that only exists for a few.
At the risk of veering off into a whole new discussion (my fault, sorry)... perhaps one last comment: I do get that - I see lots of beautiful people in starring roles on American shows whereas British (and other) shows tend to use people who look like you might expect if you walked into a police station or law office. Was it always that way? I loved Hill Street Blues and The Wire back in the day - I don't remember many fashion models in leading roles though. Lincoln Lawyer, on the other hand, love the show, love the actors but that lead guy is so attractive I fancy him myself and I'm a straight old man.
The only thing I use checks for are car payments or paying off other parts of large sum money agreements. Every day items it's either cash or credit cards, I don't remember ever using a check to pay for something that wasn't a major financial affair. Even now I don't carry more than $25 cash with me for emergencies and just use my credit card for purchases, I think I stopped carring cash I intended to use for at least 15+ years.
What shows were you watching and were did you visit, depending on where you were could be the difference between what you expected and what you experienced.
..I use a cheque to pay my rent as the autopay the rental company has draws on the first of the month and I don't get my pension deposit until the 3rd. Last thing I need is an NSF email that would invoke penalty charges by the bank and building management.