Gen 8 to 9 Tunic/Loincloth/Dress Triangulator Problems? [Solved]

RexRed

Gen 8 to 9 Tunic/Loincloth/Dress Triangulator Problems?

This all started out with me buying the "SY DeTriangulator Tunic Genesis 9" product (Of which I cannot find a discussion in the Daz forums about).

I bought this product SY DeTriangulator Tunic Genesis 9 because I noticed when I used auto fit from Gen 8 to 9 for clothing for tunics or loincloths I would get a terrible V shaped distortion in the pelvis area.

I thought, oh great, a product to fix this. But I have tried both methods detailed in the manual and I have not gotten good results from these morphs alone.

I thought well I can just learn to export the clothing items to Hexagon. Blender or Zbrush and fix the distortion and then reimport them and problem solved.

But the bones or something are all off and the cloth just imports in and distorts itself again magically resizes the item and everything is thrown totally off.

I have tried every possible way I know of trying to edit these items and I have not been able to fix the distortion in the clothing to a satisfactory level.

I prefer using Gen 9 figures...

It is like these clothing items have points glued to the figure in places and these points are stretching the fabric incorrectly.

I have concluded that the only thing that can heal this problem is a mesh smoother brush for Daz Studio.

I requested a mesh smoothing brush in the new product thread. Why don't we already have mesh editing tools in Daz? They are necessary…

But these tools do not exist, no one has made one yet.

I have spent the last two entire days in a state of total frustration trying to fix this problem.

And this problem is widespread, it affects many clothing articles I own.

I am not likely to buy this product SY Ultra Templates for Genesis 9 until I get some guarantees from other Daz users that it actually works.

Can I adjust bones in these clothing assets to stretch the cloth and fix this anomaly 100%?

Do both products work together to fix this and if so why is that not stated in the product description they require each other? 

Why two products to fix the same thing if they both work?

The clothing looks like it is fixed in the Ultra Templates product examples but so do the clothing items in the SY DeTriangulator product description images, but I have not had good results.

I have tried to get the "swamp loincloth" to work and nothing I have tried (other than Blender’s smoothing tools) will make that product look right.

I am under the conclusion that the only thing that can really fix this problem completely is a mesh smoothing brush within Daz Studio... So this inquire is mostly about how to handle problems in Daz Studio.

When I use the mesh smoothing/sculpting brushes/tools in Blender the problem magically goes away.

But the smoothing morphs when imported into Daz do not work at all to fix this.

So, the question I have, is this fixable by adjusting bones in the clothing and has anyone tried this SY Ultra Templates product and got it to work 100%?

It seems this all stems from the Gen 9 legs being further apart at the pelvis. The cloth is stretched by a certain number of degrees.

RexRed

I need to add more to this discussion.

About "changes" to the Genesis 9 figure from previous generations. I’m all for changes to the Gen 9 figures. I like how clothing, poses, eyes etc. are interchangeable between the sexes.

What is the point of having a new figure if changes are not made?

And with these changes will most certainly come incompatibilities.

So, this change in the pelvis area seems to have been made because the legs were too close together. 

Perhaps that change improves the way a figure looks when they are walking and running, I don't know?

But does it change the way pants fit when a figure is sitting down or bending at the pelvis to the limits?

I think this problem is still terrible and perhaps even worse now.

And the way pants are glued in spots to the pelvis leaves no solution that I can come up with to smooth these areas and make them look natural.

I will say, when I purchase a new clothing set (I exclusively buy Gen 8 male items) I look at the loin area, does it look weird and malformed? 

If so, I will not buy that product, which is often the case. Sometimes the cloth style of the zipper is just not patterned out well but sometimes it is this anomaly with the pelvis area. That is either an aesthetics problem or a physics problem or both.

Why can't clothes conform to a figure when they are sitting down or bent at the waist to the limits? My own clothing bends with me when I put my body in those extreme poses.

Something is wrong with the physics and how clothing is "glued" to a figure's body at certain point, this does not seem physically correct.

I wish that in creating a new generation of figures that if the legs were going to be set further apart at the pelvis that this gluing of clothing problem to bones would have been remedied as well.

I come back to the fact that perhaps mesh smoothing tools "within" Daz Studio could help transform the mesh in these areas with extreme poses to make the fabric conform better and look more natural.

Having these tools would make products sell better as well because the images in the description would not openly display these clothing anomalies.

Is this clothing anomaly worse with Genesis 9? Well, it seems from my current experience that it is not any better. I need more time to observe this problem to decide if it is indeed worse.

How do you other Daz artists remedy with this problem? You certainly must encounter the same problems as I do when you bend a figure at the waist and their pants go all off alignment at the pelvis.

Or do you just make portraits from the waist up? It seem that is often the case. 

 

Richard Haseltine

Daz Studio already has a Smoothign modifer, though i do wish it could be weight-mapped to cotnrain its effect the way most other modifiers can be (this my be a limit of SubD algorithms, though - the Smoothing Modifier, as I understand it, applies the same smoothing as SubD but without additional mesh divisions).

It's very hrd to follow what is the issue with morphs, but are you using the Reverse Deformations option when you import them (on the figure in the same pose as when exporting the OBJ to create the morph)? That will subtract out the initial state, leaving just your corrections - otherwise you are doubling the shaping/posing.

marble

This is not just a G9 problem - it has been around for many years and Sickleyield has done her best to provide products to fix it. I even bought some of them but, alas, they have never fixed it to my satisfaction so I now have a routine of exporting new dresses and skirts to Blender to smooth out that awful V. It gets even more pronounced if the character has anatomy geografts beneath. And, sad to say, posing exacerbates the issue and even my Blender efforts struggle to cope. 

I'm certain that there must have been numerous support tickets raised for this. I have raised one or two myself but, as usual, nothing comes of them. After so many years and generation after generation, you'd think they could resolve this - if they were interested, of course.

crosswind

Indeed ~ Those products are not all-mighty... So as a routine workflow, fixing them with Blender / ZB + some 'combo tricks' is always the optimal resolution.

RexRed

Thank you all for the help, All of your various suggestions pointed me in the right direction.

I am following in the same vein of the suggestions here. Daz, through Diffeomorphic, to Blender and back to Daz.

Once the path is understood and facilitated it is quite easy to edit meshes and make morphs.

I was able to get stuff into Hexagon as well, but Hexagon was very tempermental, barely works anymore.

I made a video of my final process. Blender is the ticket.

Again thanks very much!

My video is 4 hours long but it covers just about every aspect of this process in making a scene.

De-tangle Clothing - Diffeomorphic, Blender and Daz Studio.

 

marble

A little different to my workflow. I just export the OBJ files - quick and easy. It must be remembered that DAZ Studio and Blender have different scaling so I adjust for that in the Export/Import settings.

Also, the objects must be exported individually (unlike Diffeomorphic) and at Base resolution. I also switch off mesh smoothing before exporting from DAZ Studio although I'm not sure this is always necessary.

Lastly, the export from Blender must be imported back into DAZ Studio using Morph Loader Pro which is one of the tools available in DAZ Studio by default. If you are interested (or anyone else picking up information from this thread), I'll try to attach my settings in screenshots if the file attachment is working today. [Sorry - it isn't. I'll try to remember to try again another time]

RexRed

marble said:

A little different to my workflow. I just export the OBJ files - quick and easy. It must be remembered that DAZ Studio and Blender have different scaling so I adjust for that in the Export/Import settings.

Also, the objects must be exported individually (unlike Diffeomorphic) and at Base resolution. I also switch off mesh smoothing before exporting from DAZ Studio although I'm not sure this is always necessary.

Lastly, the export from Blender must be imported back into DAZ Studio using Morph Loader Pro which is one of the tools available in DAZ Studio by default. If you are interested (or anyone else picking up information from this thread), I'll try to attach my settings in screenshots if the file attachment is working today. [Sorry - it isn't. I'll try to remember to try again another time]

Thank you for all the help Marble!