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I need some advice for fixing my eyes for Genesis9 figure

LondonbridgeNeverfallsLondonbridgeNeverfalls Posts: 19
edited August 2023 in New Users

Hey guys,

Could you please look at the attached picture? I've made a body morph for Genesis9 and pretty happy with how it looks like, but I'm having trouble with fixing the eye.

When it comes to "adjusting the rigging to shape" part, my eye positions go funky. Am I doing something wrong? What would be the best way to fix my eyess for genesis9?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uoI1_KaabwfZptvOXVfjX_QmqwD07Qsj/view?usp=sharing

My final goal is to merge the changes I made to the body and the eye into one morph, as shown in the video below, but this video doesn't tell me when to "adjust rigging to shape" and how it should be done...:(

Post edited by LondonbridgeNeverfalls on

Comments

  • Causam3DCausam3D Posts: 212
    edited August 2023

    At the risk of getting in trouble:

    Eye Nine Toolbox

    Causam3D: Easy to use, sophisticated assets for Daz Studio

    0-Main.jpg
    1266 x 1266 - 679K
    Post edited by Causam3D on
  • LondonbridgeNeverfallsLondonbridgeNeverfalls Posts: 19

    thanks! should I use this as a step 6, after I finished the rigging to shape, or should I use it instead of step 3, before doing any eye adjustment or rigging?

  • lilweeplilweep Posts: 2,486
    edited August 2023

    I didnt watch that video but this is what i would do:

    Head morph

    1.Load fresh gen 9 dev load figure

    2. Import your morph via morph loader pro, and dial up the morph so only that morph is active.

    3. Adjust rigging to shape for the relevant body bones that have been morphed (this is so rigging matches your new morph)

    4. ERC link the rigging changes to the morph (this is so rigging change is linked to your new morph)

    Eye morph

    5. Load gen 9 eyeballs

    6. Position eyeballs to match your new head morph

    7. export the updated eyeballs (at base res)

    8. Restore all the changes you made, or just load fresh devload Gen 9 and fresh eyeballs

    9. Load eyeball morph onto gen 9 eyes using morph loader pro, giving it the same 'Name' as your head morph (so that when the body morph loads, the eyeball morph will be used instead of the autogenerated autofollow morph that daz creates)

    10. Adjust rigging to shape for the relevant bones of the gen 9 eyeballs (so that the eye bone riggings lines up correctly with your morph)

    11. ERC link the rigging changes for the eyeball morph (again this is so rigging changes are linked to your morph)

    Save both as morph assets (save them properly...)

    Gen 9 has some additional eye rigging tools in the devtools utilities, under Parameters, but i forgot how to use them. Changelingchick explained it here: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/8167346/#Comment_8167346

    Post edited by lilweep on
  • LondonbridgeNeverfallsLondonbridgeNeverfalls Posts: 19
    edited August 2023

    Hey thanks!

    Let me ask you 2 more question, thing about what you have mentioned in step2.

    Here. is it better for me to zero out the morph dial for for the 4 morphs below?

    These are dialed up at default, even for the dev load.

    Eye look out left

    Eye look out right

    Side-side <for right eye>

    Side-side <for left eye>

    and for step 4 and 9 should I turn on reverse deformation?

     

    2. Import your morph via morph loader pro, and dial up the morph so only that morph is active.

     

    Post edited by LondonbridgeNeverfalls on
  • lilweeplilweep Posts: 2,486

    prosyonen said:

    Hey thanks!

    Let me ask you 2 more question, thing about what you have mentioned in step2.

    Here. is it better for me to zero out the morph dial for for the 4 morphs below?

    These are dialed up at default, even for the dev load.

    Eye look out left

    Eye look out right

    Side-side <for right eye>

    Side-side <for left eye>

    Pretty sure those arent dialled up by default for the dev load figure.

    Those are dialled up only when eye resting focal length is 100%, which is an active morph.  The default for Eye Resting Focal Length is 0%.

    Someone correct me if wrong.

    and for step 4 and 9 should I turn on reverse deformation?

    Reverse deformations is when you are loading a morph onto something other than the default shape and pose. This is to reverse out the existing changes (deltas) from the current shape you are loading onto, such that your new morph will be only the difference between the current shape and your new shape. If left off it will make the morph deltas the difference between your new shape and default shape, which usually you wouldnt want.

    Out of habit i always just put reverse deformations on anyway but technically you would only do it if it is not the default gen 9 shape you are loading your morph to

  • LondonbridgeNeverfallsLondonbridgeNeverfalls Posts: 19

    Pretty sure those arent dialled up by default for the dev load figure.

    Those are dialled up only when eye resting focal length is 100%, which is an active morph.  The default for Eye Resting Focal Length is 0%.

    Someone correct me if wrong.

    Hmm... could you please check out this video I just captured?

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/12POz-7XPSLrSqR3vO3A3AWyJCLbML_St/view?usp=sharing

    I just loaded a dev figure, and it seems that

    Eye look out left 
    Eye look out right 

    is set to 10.0% at default

    and

    Side-Side is set to 3.00 and -3.00 for each of the eyes

  • lilweeplilweep Posts: 2,486

    Now i am confused.   Dev Load shouldnt load with anything in 'Currently Used'.

    Maybe just go to Edit>Figure>Restore>Restore Figure to put figure into it's restored state.

    Does that issue still happen when you close Daz and open a brand new Scene file?

    I notice there is another thread asking this same question, and people in that thread seemed to arrive at the conclusion that those Eye Look Out Left/Right should be active at default, which seems like a specious claim to me. 

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 6,914

    prosyonen said:

    Pretty sure those arent dialled up by default for the dev load figure.

    Those are dialled up only when eye resting focal length is 100%, which is an active morph.  The default for Eye Resting Focal Length is 0%.

    Someone correct me if wrong.

    Hmm... could you please check out this video I just captured?

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/12POz-7XPSLrSqR3vO3A3AWyJCLbML_St/view?usp=sharing

    I just loaded a dev figure, and it seems that

    Eye look out left 
    Eye look out right 

    is set to 10.0% at default

    and

    Side-Side is set to 3.00 and -3.00 for each of the eyes

    Search "Eye Resting Focal Point", see if it has a default value (100%). Dev Load shouldn't have such a default values.

  • LondonbridgeNeverfallsLondonbridgeNeverfalls Posts: 19

    Well, please check this out.

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Xe0bwKDjZTE8m3GoAK9HLUhxXjamfPjU/view?usp=sharing

    I just restarted daz, made a new scene and dev loaded it again, but the default value seems to be the same,
    (and the "Eye resting focal point" was 100%)

  • Causam3DCausam3D Posts: 212
    edited September 2023

    prosyonen said:

    thanks! should I use this as a step 6, after I finished the rigging to shape, or should I use it instead of step 3, before doing any eye adjustment or rigging?

    G9 eyes are in my opinion very tricky.  Now, if you're creating a figure that is native G9 scale, You won't need to worry about scaling the eyes.  However if you're scaling your character up to Genesis 8 scale (which is around 105% or maybe 106%) you'll want to use the scaling step.

    I recommend when you create your G9 character whether you're doing it in Blender or just using sliders, use the Genesis 9 Dev Load rather than a G9 full base character.  That leaves out the eyes, mouth, etc.  Then save your morphs from the Dev Load figure.  That way when you load your morphs you don't have to worry about anything having mucked up the eyes.  They are enough trouble on their own without that mistake, which I've made a time or two myself.  After that, you can use the Eye Nine Toolbox to get the native and troublesome G9 eyes behaving correctly, and save that as a character preset.  The Toolbox is very useful for renders and as a step in creating a character, which I just mentioned.  Let me know if that makes sense to you.

    Hopefully I'm not repeating anything below.  Probably am.  That's fine.  :)

    Post edited by Richard Haseltine on
  • LondonbridgeNeverfallsLondonbridgeNeverfalls Posts: 19
    edited August 2023

    Actually I also found out that there were some other values that is not 0% at default;

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1j5mjTONnG-TGGrH7j-PaL-HBnhElZ6Fl/view?usp=sharing

    Below are the default values for the dev load;

    Eye resting focal point 100%
    Eye look automatic 100%
    Base joint correctives 100%
    Eye look out left 10%
    Eye look out right 10%
    Side-side (Left eye) -3
    Side-side (right eye) 3

    I've managed to make this all to zero value by

    Edit>Figure>Zero>zero figure 

    but when you choose

    Edit>Figure>Restore>restore figure 

    It restores everything to its default value to the values I wrote above.

     

    Post edited by LondonbridgeNeverfalls on
  • lilweeplilweep Posts: 2,486
    edited August 2023
    prosyonen said:

    Actually I also found out that there were some other values that is not 0% at default;

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1j5mjTONnG-TGGrH7j-PaL-HBnhElZ6Fl/view?usp=sharing

    Below are the default values for the dev load;

    Eye resting focal point 100%
    Eye look automatic 100%
    Base joint correctives 100%
    Eye look out left 10%
    Eye look out right 10%
    Side-side (Left eye) -3
    Side-side (right eye) 3

    I've managed to make this all to zero value by

    Edit>Figure>Zero>zero figure 

    but when you choose

    Edit>Figure>Restore>restore figure 

    It restores everything to its default value to the values I wrote above.

     

    Do not zero figure. Restore figure. Zero puts defaults to zero that should not be zero. (Base joint correctives and eye look automatic are not zero by default.) You can open a parameter by pressing gear icon to see its default value. Eye look out and eye side by side are both under control of 'eye resting focal length'. You can see this when opening up the parameter and looking under controller and subcomponents. What is eye resting focal length default value for you?
    Post edited by lilweep on
  • lilweeplilweep Posts: 2,486
    According to your video, eye resting focal length default value may be 100% which is different to mine... default for this should be zero... Where is that morph loading from? I.e, file path in your /data/ folder? (Can be seen by clicking gear icon for parameter)
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,240
    edited August 2023

    @prosyonen The Genesis 9 Dev Load should load with eye resting focal length of 0%. Something is wrong with your setup.

    • What version of Daz Studio are you using (Help>About Daz Studio). Post the entire version number.
    • Have you installed the latest update to Genesis 9 Starter Essentials? Perhaps you are using an old version of the Genesis 9 Dev Load.
    • Do you install with Daz Install Manager (DIM)? If so, it will tell you whether there is an update.
    • Have you saved over the original Genesis 9 Dev Load, changing the default values?
    Post edited by barbult on
  • LondonbridgeNeverfallsLondonbridgeNeverfalls Posts: 19
    • What version of Daz Studio are you using (Help>About Daz Studio). Post the entire version number.
      4.21.0.5 pro 64bit
       
    • Have you installed the latest update to Genesis 9 Starter Essentials? Perhaps you are using an old version of the Genesis 9 Dev Load.
      Re-installed everything from daz install manager but nothing changed
       
    • Do you install with Daz Install Manager (DIM)? If so, it will tell you whether there is an update.
      Re-installed everything from daz install manager but nothing changed
       
    • Have you saved over the original Genesis 9 Dev Load, changing the default values?
      Nope, as mentioned above, I re-installed everything just to be sure, but nothing changed.

      Actually, I installed DAZ to another PC but I came up with the same result.
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,240

    Are you really loading the Genesis 9 Dev Load file? It is the one without eyes, mouth, etc. in the Genesis 9/Developer Kit folder. What you describe sounds like you are loading the gray Genesis 9 figure with eyes, mouth, etc. from the Genesis 9 folder.

  • LondonbridgeNeverfallsLondonbridgeNeverfalls Posts: 19

    Watch this!

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Xe0bwKDjZTE8m3GoAK9HLUhxXjamfPjU/view?usp=sharing

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,747

    The Dev Load  comes in with the defautl values, not zeroed - otherwise there would be no point in loading it to fix bad default values. The point of using the devload is that the base proeprties are all zeroed, so there is no danger of accidentally modifying them (unless they had already been modified).

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,240

    I can't understand why yours behaves that way - and on 2 computers besides. It seems that you have it installed properly and are using an appropriate version of Daz Studio. I saw in your early screenshot that your starting point included the Base Feminine Head dialed in. I wonder if that has something to do with the issue.  I don't know. When I adjust the eyes for a converted character morph, I follow ChanglingChick's instructions that adjust rigging for the head and eyes separately and use the tool in the Dev Tools to do the eye rigging. Canary3D has a video on modifying the eyes object to fit. I believe you have already linked to that video, so I guess you've done that part already. I don't think I can help beyond that. Sorry. I hope you find the solution.

  • LondonbridgeNeverfallsLondonbridgeNeverfalls Posts: 19

    Hey Barbult,

    Thank you so much for your great info and advice! 

    > follow ChanglingChick's instructions that adjust rigging for the head and eyes separately and use the tool in the Dev Tools to do the eye rigging.

    I actually never knew about this, and this worked perfectly for me (Let's just forget about the default value issue for now, and please assume that nothing is wrong around here)
    As far as I checked it's working OK but since I'm not an native English speaker I'm not too sure if I've understood ChangllingChick's instruction correctly.
    Could you kindly check out the attached and see if I'm doing everything correctly? ( ChangllingChick's guide seems to be intended for a head morph, but I tried it for a full body + head morph and seems to be working perfectly)

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1C7PVGsxEm6Tf5O6m_4AFNGkK0zPV475r/view?usp=sharing

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,240

    I have never done it as a full head and body morph, but I think your instructions look like they would be correct. Congratulations on your success!

  • LondonbridgeNeverfallsLondonbridgeNeverfalls Posts: 19
    edited August 2023

    One last question, if I want to adjust eye position using Canary3D's method, could I just simply do it between step4 and step5, like below?
    It seems to be working for me, but please do give me advice if I'm doing anything stupid :P

    4.After the rigging to shape has finished, Load and attach genesis 9 Eyes to your figure

    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    4-1.Adjust eye psition, don't care about rigging here (just like Canary3d did in the youtube video)
    4-2.Export the eye parts as a obj
    4-3.Restore all the changes you made at step4-1 and load a new genesis 9 eye
    4-4.Import the exported eye you made at step4-2 using morph loader pro (seems to work better with Reverse deformation:OFF here)
    remember to use the same morph name you made at step2. and overwrite it. This will merge the 2 morphs
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    5.make sure only the morph dialed up is the one you made so far.
    Select that morph and use “Adjust Eye Rigging” from the G9 dev tool

    Post edited by LondonbridgeNeverfalls on
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,240

    Step 4-4: Your G9 should have no deformations at that point, if everything is restored. Whether you choose Reverse Deformations or not, shouldn't make a difference. Instead of trying to restore things, I suggest you delete the G9 character in your scene and load a fresh one. Also, I'm not sure what you mean by merging 2 morphs. If you mean that the eye morph, that is named the same as the character morph, will be dialed up automatically by Auto Follow, when the character morph is dialed in, then that makes sense. Don't forget to save your morphs, so you don't have to do it all over!

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