Daz Studio Pro BETA - version 4.9.0.21!

DAZ_Spooky

SimonJM said:

I think I need a quick clarification/explanation of something with the new Connect system.  Either that or a good thwack with th business end of a two-by-four .. ;)

I have seen emntion of this data/cloud directory location as being where content obtained via Connect will go.  Not got a problem with that. I don't think ... ;)  I have seen mention that this is where the content is installed, and also suggestion that Connect works (very sort of!) a little like DIM.  I have also seen it mentioned that we can backup content for later recovery, etc.

Now, data/cliud may be where it is installed into, but where is it downloaded to?  What happens to the download file(s) after installation?  Any of that configurable and, if not, why not?

The downloaded files are in the directory. This is not downloading a zip then extracting it and then installing it. 

jpb06t

DAZ_Spooky said:

Imagined scenarios? My comment is to not imagine it but use it for yourself and see how close to reality your imagination is. (Sorry, I couldn't resist.) 

I take note that you try to skirt the question whether Studio capability to export will remain available in future; your non-answer is ominous and should be meditated upon by other Studio users. As far as I am concerned, the writing is on the wall.

DAZ_Spooky

Wilmap said:

I have two accounts in the Daz shop, one old one and the one I use now. Both have content and both belong to me. How will I be able to use these items together in a scene if I have to log into each account to use them?

The current answer is to pick one and only use that one of them with Daz Connect, leave any additional accounts installed through DIM. There are others in your situation, and it is being looked at. 

DAZ_Spooky

mjc1016 said:

DAZ_Spooky said:

So you put it somewhere where the other person with an account on your computer can't get to it, then they still can't get to it. Nothing changed. 

Which...for me looks like to set it up for the possibility of account switching would require a complete reinstall of content.

If you are account switching in that situation, you are doing that anyway. 

DAZ_Jon

mjc1016 said:

DAZ_Spooky said:

So you put it somewhere where the other person with an account on your computer can't get to it, then they still can't get to it. Nothing changed. 

Which...for me looks like to set it up for the possibility of account switching would require a complete reinstall of content.

Are you talking Daz accounts or user accounts on your PC? In either case, if your content is installed to a location that can actually be read from by your computer (so not locked to a specific user account but a shared location) or both done from the same user account, you will be fine. If Daz Account A installs Victoria 7, and Daz Account B also has it and needs it on your system, it will be able to. The only difference is if Account A has content Account B doesn't have, Account B won't be able to use it. This does negatively impact those households that have different accounts but have previously shared content. In the short term we can do things like merging of accounts, and in the long term, we have some plans for addressing it in a more elegant manner.

Syndaryl

DAZ_Spooky said:

The downloaded files are in the directory. This is not downloading a zip then extracting it and then installing it. 

The downloaded files are encrypted in the directory. You may look, but not touch. Every time you fail to mention this little detail, I can't help but think you're trying to sweep it under the rug.

MKeyes

I have a GUT feeling ... THIS is why we haven't seen Michael 7 yet... they are going to release HIM - on this Connect system for 4.9... I truly do believe this. This will PROTECT M7... we shall see if I'm right or not. But he's going to be released to the CLOUD... which will protect that ENTIRE PACKAGE.

Things that make you go hmmmm - I sure pray that I'm wrong... but... hmmm

cherpenbeck

I just got the very bad feeling that maybe the Generation3 Males will be the first connect-only-download ...

SimonJM

DAZ_Spooky said:

SimonJM said:

I think I need a quick clarification/explanation of something with the new Connect system.  Either that or a good thwack with th business end of a two-by-four .. ;)

I have seen emntion of this data/cloud directory location as being where content obtained via Connect will go.  Not got a problem with that. I don't think ... ;)  I have seen mention that this is where the content is installed, and also suggestion that Connect works (very sort of!) a little like DIM.  I have also seen it mentioned that we can backup content for later recovery, etc.

Now, data/cliud may be where it is installed into, but where is it downloaded to?  What happens to the download file(s) after installation?  Any of that configurable and, if not, why not?

The downloaded files are in the directory. This is not downloading a zip then extracting it and then installing it. 

Ahh, ok, I do not recall that actually being specifed directly!  So, there is not an actual 'download set', as such, what is downloaded is a direct inclusion into the content so there is no intermediary?  Does that mean that nothing is compressed?

MKeyes

cherpenbeck said:

I just got the very bad feeling that maybe the Generation3 Males will be the first connect-only-download ...

See my above post? 

DAZ_Spooky

jpb06t -formerly latego- said:

DAZ_Spooky said:

Imagined scenarios? My comment is to not imagine it but use it for yourself and see how close to reality your imagination is. (Sorry, I couldn't resist.) 

I take note that you try to skirt the question whether Studio capability to export will remain available in future; your non-answer is ominous and should be meditated upon by other Studio users. As far as I am concerned, the writing is on the wall.

Nope. I have already answered the question of export several times in multiple threads. Export is unaffected. 

DAZ_Spooky

SimonJM said:

DAZ_Spooky said:

SimonJM said:

I think I need a quick clarification/explanation of something with the new Connect system.  Either that or a good thwack with th business end of a two-by-four .. ;)

I have seen emntion of this data/cloud directory location as being where content obtained via Connect will go.  Not got a problem with that. I don't think ... ;)  I have seen mention that this is where the content is installed, and also suggestion that Connect works (very sort of!) a little like DIM.  I have also seen it mentioned that we can backup content for later recovery, etc.

Now, data/cliud may be where it is installed into, but where is it downloaded to?  What happens to the download file(s) after installation?  Any of that configurable and, if not, why not?

The downloaded files are in the directory. This is not downloading a zip then extracting it and then installing it. 

Ahh, ok, I do not recall that actually being specifed directly!  So, there is not an actual 'download set', as such, what is downloaded is a direct inclusion into the content so there is no intermediary?  Does that mean that nothing is compressed?

I may have it wrong, but that is how I understood it. Remember that file transfer protocols do compression for transfer. 

Richard Haseltine

lorraineopua_282f2aa302 said:

DAZ_Rawb said:

lorraineopua_282f2aa302 said:

This dinosaur is an unhappy dinosaur. I download using the product library to a USB stick when I am ashore and have borrowed wifi. Then I take my USB stick back to my boat and install to my computer, into an installation folder. My content is then amalgamated, renamed if necessary and then put into my DS library WHERE I WANT IT. If that makes me a control freaking dinosaur so be it. But if you fullas carry on with this DRM bs, I will be another goodbye, outa here. My mobile data (of which I have used way too much reading this whole thread on my phone) is way too precious to go down this bs road. 

Fetching offline packages are a feature that will be implemented soon, so you can fetch your products ashore onto a USB stick and bring them back to the boat. 

 

Shuffling file around is a bit more difficult, I tried some simple solutions today and they didn't quite work but there could be some changes we could make to Daz Studio to make that work. We will keep investigating and see what we can come up with.

Hmmm, I get the feeling you are listening, actually taking on board what your customers are saying and I really appreciate it. 

So here's my bottom line. I want to be able to download an actual product, take it back to my actual boat, put it on my actual computer and install it where I actually want it. I do not want my computer to have to phone home, I just want to be able to enjoy my hobby with as little grief as possible, in my own way and at my own leisure. With no internet apart from the downloading. 

You can't now, but you will be able to do that other than the individual placement of files - though that is being looked at.

Richard Haseltine

hphoenix said:

With all the features that people have been asking for......Physics, Better Animation Tools, Properly updated documentation, and more.....this is what they give us.

DRM and enforced structured 'smart' content.

And with so many on the forums pointing out the problems involved with these 'benefits', they keep pushing them like they were a gift from the gods.

 

So what if at some point the license server crashes?  What if DAZ folds?  Will all that post 4.9 content become unusable?  What if I need to reinstall after that from a backup copy?

Or maybe my account gets corrupted.  Pre-4.9, I could just use my backed up DIM files.  Couldn't use DIM itself, obviously, but that's a minor inconvenience.  But with 4.9 and on, since it can't authenticate, I lose all that content.

 

I just finished burning a few BD-R discs with my DIM files for backup.  Glad I did, now....

 

If this goes live in 4.9, I won't be upgrading, nor will I renew my PC+.....nor will I be shopping at the DAZ store, unless there is still an option to download unencrypted DIM files for offline install and usage.  A shame, really.  I was finally getting the hang of content creation and was looking into turning my dev skills toward plugin creation.

 

You don't need to be online to use your content, you will absolutely need to be online only once - to register the account on the machine - when the offline downkload and install option is available.

Khory

"Of course, this whole "Cloud" thing is not an new idea at all."

Haven't we really sort of been on a cloud as far as content goes for a while now? It sits somewhere after I buy it till I download it. If I change my mind about it I can put it back there till I want it again. I'm just not seeing any difference other than ease of use. Pretty much the same ease of use my ebooks provid. And should I ever move to one of the more powerful tablets it might be pretty awsome to only have to have a limited volume of content on it but all of it available to me with the click of a button.

DAZ_Spooky

Syndaryl said:

DAZ_Spooky said:

The downloaded files are in the directory. This is not downloading a zip then extracting it and then installing it. 

The downloaded files are encrypted in the directory. You may look, but not touch. Every time you fail to mention this little detail, I can't help but think you're trying to sweep it under the rug.

I am not sweeping anything under the rug. The files are encrypted. That doesn't change the answer. The encryption is transparent to the customer. I would estimate that greater than 90% of the customers will never even notice that they are encrypted. 

Richard Haseltine

Eva1 said:

DAZ_Spooky said:

kitakoredaz said:

DAZ spookey, I feel,,  you and DAZ team not understand why basic or new customer get trouble.

it is simple.  because all luck of clear  step by step kind  document about current DS version.

eg file structure and file type.   it is really important to play with DS and content.

 you everytime migrate old and new  document.    DAZ can not organize document well.  

All Content sold at Daz 3D has, as part of the readme, a file list which shows where things are. The link to the readme is right in the DIM interface. 

You can determine through DIM where, exactly, each piece of content you installed actually got installed. The DIM capability is documented right in the interface and is simple to find. 

Since this is still the primary customer service ticket submitted, documentation did not provided the solution and the issue needed to be further addressed. 

I feel I have to comment on this as I agree with the OP regarding Daz not organising content well and it really annoys me as it doesn't match with standards for other things Daz do so well.  I've bought tons of content to use over the years. Yes, the readme info is online but it's essentially hidden because if you are not using DIM , or hadn't thought to look there, you wouldn't know it exists - there is no reference to the readme file on the product page where it should be (and also sometimes you want to see the readme to perhaps clarify a question before buying - the vendor may have extra info there you need not on the store page. I've found that a few times, so DIM doesn't even come into the picture in that scenario) .

All it needs is a line of text on each product page saying "..you can find the readme by searching with the product code in the readme section here....link..." or something to that effect. I've been a user since version 1. something and it took me a long time before I realized that readmes were actually here on Daz in the Docoumentation section. I can't be the only one. And now that they are not included in the product files, even more reason to have that link on the product page. The user shouldn't be expected to have to hunt down readme information - access should be obvious and easy.

You can get to the readme from the item's icon via right-click menu.

kitakoredaz

 I do not think it is joke (I feel no one can confirm ,we need not any licence to export obj in future)

ProPose said:

Just wondering how long it will be before the "File > Export" button will be grayed out unless you've purchased an export license?

 

Richard Haseltine

MJW said:

I have been pleased with Daz, and have spent a considerable amount on products, but I will cease and desist if I cannot download items as now and use them as now - eg operating on my laptop when away and my desktop at home. I have poor braodband access, and therefore do not use any sort of cloud solutions - it is unreliable and can in certain circumstances simply not be available. Those who advocate such systems are generally in situations where the data transfer rates are good and the fees are not exorbitant. I can't even guarantee a mobile phone signal at my desk, and see no likelihood of the systems improving in the near future - if at all.

Deriously, if Daz thinks that the way forward is the use of restrictiove practices it is demonstrating an attitude similar to that of the North Koreans. The best way to grasp a piece of soap is gently, not tghtly.

Think long and hard and then think again - and then abandon thoughts of tying me down.

There will be an offline otpion for those with connection issues, or those of us who have bandwidth caps and don't wish to redownload on each install. It isn't there yet but it has been stated as coming before the end of the beta.

DAZ_Spooky

kitakoredaz said:

 I do not think it is joke (I feel no one can confirm ,we need not any licence to export obj in future)

ProPose said:

Just wondering how long it will be before the "File > Export" button will be grayed out unless you've purchased an export license?

 

And as I have stated several times. Export is unaffected by any of this. Now if you want me to predict the future? I can't. It is beyond my capabilities. 

wsterdan

Khory said:

"Of course, this whole "Cloud" thing is not an new idea at all."

Haven't we really sort of been on a cloud as far as content goes for a while now? It sits somewhere after I buy it till I download it. If I change my mind about it I can put it back there till I want it again. I'm just not seeing any difference other than ease of use. Pretty much the same ease of use my ebooks provid. And should I ever move to one of the more powerful tablets it might be pretty awsome to only have to have a limited volume of content on it but all of it available to me with the click of a button

That's how I'm seeing it, we download to our hard drives and use it from there, though I think most people hear "Cloud" and automatically assume that everything will stay online and they'll have to use it from there... no matter how many times it's explained to them.

-- Walt Sterdan 

wsterdan

Double post, sorry.

cherpenbeck

Actually Cloud ist just the name of a server somewhere, owned by somebody else, who may or may not allow me to work with files on or downloaded from said server.

vwrangler

DAZ_Spooky said:

vwrangler said:

It's not even just third party content. There's quite a lot of DAZ content that many users have put in places that were more intuitive/logical/effective for them. People were then able to combine that with how they had third party content organized to make what was, for them, the best way to work. It sounds as though, at best, Studio 4.9 will be confused by that approach, because things aren't where it wants them to be.

vwrangler said:

I do understand that it's frustrating that so few people are paying attention to the unarguable improvements. But for most people, the unarguable improvements are ... unarguable. While they affect our work in noticeable ways, they don't break a system that many users have spent years putting together. (Yes, yes, Content Library still there, everything still where we put it, all true. New Smart Content still breaks the systems that users have developed.) People will naturally focus on the parts that make their work more difficult rather than the parts that make it easier.

The problem Daz Connect addresses, is the number one customer complaint of I just bought X and I can't find it. And it isn't just new users that have that complaint. 

 

Yes. I understand that. However. If I organize content in a way that at least theoretically makes sense to me, then I shouldn't have that number one complaint. And if I do, it's my own damn fault, and Daz Connect won't really be able to help much with that anyway. Also, not quite the point I was making in the first paragraph quoted, and not relevant for the second.

In any event, according to the FAQ and to what DAZ_Vince has said in the other thread, we're not going to be forced into Daz Connect in the near term, and until and unless DIM downloading and decompression goes away, this is a battle I don't need to argue right now. (Though I would really strongly recommend that the DAZ people who are trying to talk about this with users get onto the same page about the same features more clearly. The impression I have from what Rawb has said, for example, is that using DIM the way I have done until now will be changing almost immediately -- otherwise, why would he be spending so much effort in trying to figure out how to make it possible to move around the underlying files? Trying to figure out how to do it without breaking Daz Connect is one thing, but he seems to be trying to figure out how to do it at all, which implies that the system is about to break immediately and irrevocably, not purely due to Daz Connect but also due to DRM. Which is not what Vince is saying.)

DAZ_Spooky

MJW said:

I have been pleased with Daz, and have spent a considerable amount on products, but I will cease and desist if I cannot download items as now and use them as now - eg operating on my laptop when away and my desktop at home. I have poor braodband access, and therefore do not use any sort of cloud solutions - it is unreliable and can in certain circumstances simply not be available. Those who advocate such systems are generally in situations where the data transfer rates are good and the fees are not exorbitant. I can't even guarantee a mobile phone signal at my desk, and see no likelihood of the systems improving in the near future - if at all.

Deriously, if Daz thinks that the way forward is the use of restrictiove practices it is demonstrating an attitude similar to that of the North Koreans. The best way to grasp a piece of soap is gently, not tghtly.

Think long and hard and then think again - and then abandon thoughts of tying me down.

You only have to connect to install or update your content, which you have to do now anyway. Currently, you also have to be connected to switch accounts if you have more than one.

 

You do not have to be connected to use your content. 

DAZ_Spooky

vwrangler said:

DAZ_Spooky said:

vwrangler said:

It's not even just third party content. There's quite a lot of DAZ content that many users have put in places that were more intuitive/logical/effective for them. People were then able to combine that with how they had third party content organized to make what was, for them, the best way to work. It sounds as though, at best, Studio 4.9 will be confused by that approach, because things aren't where it wants them to be.

vwrangler said:

I do understand that it's frustrating that so few people are paying attention to the unarguable improvements. But for most people, the unarguable improvements are ... unarguable. While they affect our work in noticeable ways, they don't break a system that many users have spent years putting together. (Yes, yes, Content Library still there, everything still where we put it, all true. New Smart Content still breaks the systems that users have developed.) People will naturally focus on the parts that make their work more difficult rather than the parts that make it easier.

The problem Daz Connect addresses, is the number one customer complaint of I just bought X and I can't find it. And it isn't just new users that have that complaint. 

 

Yes. I understand that. However. If I organize content in a way that at least theoretically makes sense to me, then I shouldn't have that number one complaint. And if I do, it's my own damn fault, and Daz Connect won't really be able to help much with that anyway. Also, not quite the point I was making in the first paragraph quoted, and not relevant for the second.

Yet many customers with that complaint do organize their content in a way that makes sense to them and then contacts customer support complaining about not being able to find their content. The problem with that scenario is that customer support can no longer find that content either. 

Havos

lee_lhs said:

Havos said:

I was refering to the apple music store, not the appstore. The apps only run on apple devices, where as mp3s will run on multiple devices, that is why the customers did not like buying the drm music. As an aside, IOS (ie Apple's) apps are not encypted, but they are signed, and so will only run on a IOS device that recognises that signature. If DAZ could find a way to sign its content rather than encrypt it I would be perfectly happy with the changes. Only signed stuff would be able to be used in studio. However I am not certain this would be easy, since unlike Apple, DS also has to work with free and 3rd party content and this would obviously be unsigned.

Well, it wouldn't solve the problem, if the signature needs to be recognized by other software like Blender. You still can't use the content in all software, unlike adding a hidden, embedded, scrambled buyer-ID (you could use an algorythmus that combines the User ID, some DAZ-internal Key and the SKU to make it harder to crack) to each piece of content downloaded from the store, which would make it rather simple to track back who exactly is leaking the files to the warez sites.

I think the idea is that a signature would only lock people out of DS, which seems to be the major concern, and one assumes that the majority of pirate using customers are using DS, so would be locked out. Blender and others would ignore the signature, but it is a moot point since Blender (I believe) can not read DS native files anyway, and they are the only ones being encrypted.

oomu

SimonJM said:

I think I need a quick clarification/explanation of something with the new Connect system.  Either that or a good thwack with th business end of a two-by-four .. ;)

I have seen emntion of this data/cloud directory location as being where content obtained via Connect will go.  Not got a problem with that. I don't think ... ;)  I have seen mention that this is where the content is installed, and also suggestion that Connect works (very sort of!) a little like DIM.  I have also seen it mentioned that we can backup content for later recovery, etc.

Now, data/cliud may be where it is installed into, but where is it downloaded to?  What happens to the download file(s) after installation?  Any of that configurable and, if not, why not?

They are installed in a new folder in your computer, in data/cloud, in the folder your DAZ software is configured to (the default folder for DAZ Studio on Window should be C:\Users\Public\Documents\My DAZ 3D Library\ ). There will be a new data\cloud folder filled with all the contents. For each content, a folder named with its SKU. All the assets of a content will be there. Ready to be used and backed up if wanted.

DAZ support will confirm the details in the FAQ.

 

oomu

AnotherUserName said:

Its not to late to abandon this ridiculous Connect idea DAZ. It looks like you're already loosing customers. As others have said, ill be purchasing .zip files while I can and then ill be gone. I will not be upgrading beyond 4.8. I will be cancelling my PC+ membership.

I cant believe that you are sending me back to Renderosity...

you should upgrade to 4.9 : there is improvements for your actual workflow (better interface, revisions to 3DLight and Iray and bugs fixes) AND you can STILL use zipped/dim contents like before. So, don't use DAZ Connect, but use whatever improvements of 4.9 for your actual and future zipped contents (like from Renderosity). 

kitakoredaz

>And as I have stated several times. Export is unaffected by any of this. Now if you want me to predict the future? I can't. It is beyond my >capabilities. 

Yes I know, no one can not confirm about DAZ company decision. and I undersand if there was  man who can capability to confirm, they may not answer these question in this forum. And I do not hope to offence any DAZmodelator or programmer of this forum. but I can reply only yours through this forum. you need not take much care about my question, complains. it is not against yours, simply daz decision. I just cry, complain, then hope DAZ (who have authority) see ,how one user feel about these change. I can only reply here and show my atttude as customer. Usually I simply install and try beta, I really like beta most of case. And I have strong interesitng how ds improved, but I do not touch DAZ connect at all, then I do not hope to install this beta. I feel, Once I download and install it, it may count as one User not care about daz connect.

But If someone (DAZ modelator, or DAZ programmer)  can clear deny the this topic FAQ discribe ,

please change it. I feel DAZ may not change it. (Hope it is my miss reading, but how many times I check it, it still be written,

Our plans are for existing products that have been offered through non-Daz Connect methods to continue to be offered in those ways as well as through Daz Connect. New products will begin to migrate toward a Daz Connect-only delivery.

Can you deny it? I really hope so. and hope you can confirm, no, daz do not migrate DAZ connect only delivery.