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@Richard
Ah, that seems the case.
Anyway, it seems that a shell can't be added a static dforce modifier?
Any solution for a shell? Or I have to replace it with a geometry, then add a static dfroce modifier?
Not exactly... Normally a garment with dForce can well collide with other clothing underneath. For your hijab, you could make its initial shape a bit larger (or make a unique morph) as usually there are some other clothing under it. Just reserve some space for them to drape and collide.. There'll be rarely poke-thru after simulation even with default settings on dForce engine and dynamic surfaces.
Ps -: for such a simple dforce case other than smoothing collision, you don't need a geoshell, or a static dforce modifier...
The geoshell acts as the bonnet. That is part of the hijab set.
https://prnt.sc/JoOAf3hA90fK
Anyway, I've found solution for the bonnet poke through, by adding the value of collision offest.
Richard's suggestion seems right regarding the poke through of the cloth.
My hijab previously of has collision layer of 1. My cloth has collision layer of 21 by default.
Probably that's what keep causing the poke through.
And maybe the added value of collision offset also help in this regard.
Poketrough no more
The hijab has implemented the morph to make it bigger to accomodate thick clothing.
This problem is solved.
I'm wondering since there are so many body morphs, when you make a cloth, for JCMs, what body morphs standard do you use to check against?
Characters from Daz Originals, some popular characters, and the characters you like.
If JCM/CBS is not working for a given shape, may need to provide FBM support. I think you are supposed to ensure FBM support for these basic body shapes in addition to other basic shapes https://www.daz3d.com/genesis-9-body-shapes
Not sure if there are necessarily any rules around FBM support. Would be nice to have that clarified.
When I move the eyes and eyes brows, the hijab shape near them also changes.
My question is should I make Jcm so the shape of the hijab stays, or would it better if I zero the weight value of the bones related to them?
My current opinion is to better zero the weight, but will there be any side effect?
Or maybe would it better if I just removed all the face bones.
....Mmm.... would that cost a pokethrough...
maybe making the jcm is better...
couldnt you just try both options and see what works? seems like a trial and error situation.
Well... I could.
But if would be better, faster and wiser to ask people that already have the knowledge.
Since I can't work on this project all the time.
There are other things to do.
how hard is it to zero the weights and then test by moving the eye and brow bones to see if that is working fine? It would depend on how much the hijab overlaps those areas whether weighting the hijab to those bones would be beneficial or not. I can imagine, based on what a hijab generally looks like, it's not going to be an issue zero-ing out the weights from those bones. If there is any issue, can always just make a CBS to fix any issues downstream.
pretty easy to recover old version assuming youre saving out figure anew before each major change.
I would suggest taking it case by case - most eye movements should not affect the hijab, so you'd probably zero those maps,, but some facial flexions (I'd guess cheeks and maybe forehead) would and should be supported by rigging or a morph or both.
A shoulder has 3 kind of rotations, bend, twist, front back
Each combination can make the hijab pokes through. cos weightmap can't cover all.
There are quite a lot of combinations.
Should I make all Jcm for all possible combinations?
Or would be wise just make jcm for the common ones and let smooth modifier covers the rest?
---
Does genesis 9 has this values as default?
https://prnt.sc/ZE1LXZ_ox5OJ
Why don't the developer just make it as default shape, and dial them back as 0?
Nope... first there's no CBS for Front-Back. 2nd you mainly need to fix three CBS, body_cbs_shoulder_x30n, body_cbs_shoulder_x30p, body_cbs_shoulder_z55p. (if there's ugly distortion with Front-Back, you may create corrective morphs for them). Dont' modify weight, directly fix them with Blender. Fix one side with Symmetry, then use Mirroring or Attenuate in Morph Loader to update the other side. That's the most optimal and rapid way.
And don't care too much about 'combinations', CBS will be dialed proportionaly as the degrees of joint rotation. In case there's still distortion / poke-thru with a 'combination of rotations', create a MCM (morph corrective morph) for it... but don't make these things too complicated. You could never make a 100% perfect clothing... neither could a PA.
Smoothing modifier is irrelevant to corrective morphs... it just 'influences the mesh' to prevent or reduce poke-thru with smoothing iteration and collision. So in most of the cases, corrective morphs + smoothing will be fine enough. Beside, I found you've been dealing with poke-thru these days, another suggestion is that don't make high poly clothing, mid poly is good enough.
You may check the garments from those popular PAs (Mada, Su Yee, lilflame, etc.), the poly counts of the similar garments is less than 15K, many are just with 5K - 8K. Well your hijab has 31K faces, it's not really necessary. The more dense the mesh is, the more chance there's gonna be for poke-thru... You have to increase SubD of figure to be adaptive to it. Meanwhile don't make the clothing too tight in MD, try to optimize the partical distance ( better > 10 at least ) and skin offset (0.3 - 0.5)...
As for G9's default dials, 1st one is not, check your figure's pelvis Bend.. the last two are related to resting focal point of eyeballs (make them in the center of the eyeballs), which is by design. The morph could've been as default, I don't know why... maybe G9 was born with cross eyes
Try to use Dev Load to make your clothing.
@Crosswind
Thanks for the tips
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Why when I rotate G9 right shoulder, Jenny JCM (a character) also get's dialed on the hijab:
js_jenny_body_cbs_shoulder_z55p_r
How to get rid of it?
Unless you have Jenny dialled in, the character's CBS should definitely not be firing.
You are saying those character CBS are active on your base figure without any character morphs loaded? And are being projected/auto generated on your hijab?
(The number of this type of issue on the forums is stagerring. And theyre usually all Daz3d.com characters. Why does Daz keep letting these get through QA?)
Just to follow up on this point, if a type of joint rotation causes issues but there is no corresponding CBS on the base figure, you can always make your own CBS as needed. Rather than going the route of renaming your CBS to be the same name as one of the projected CBSs, you would need to set up the control parameters for the CBS in property heirarchy manually.
(Not sure about the naming convention for a novel CBS. I suppose just follow the normal naming convention of the other CBS but maybe make it slightly distinct so you can tell it's not one of the projected CBS)
Indeed, there're so many such issues.... I don't have this figure, but you can click that Gear icon on the hidden dial of 'js_jenny_body_cbs_shoulder_z55p_r', check if there's a Controller from this character, in Controllers tab.
There should be a 2nd Stage Controller with ERC [Multiply] of Jenny's body morph. If there's not, it's an issue. You may submit a ticket... then drag Jenny's body morph to 2nd Stage controller of this CBS with Property Hierarchy and resave this CBS morph asset.
Sooo... next.
My hijab already looks good on G9, but when put on Jenny, it looks not so good.
Because her body is smaller/skinnier.
https://prnt.sc/Q3cs4KmK_KMO
Does this mean in my case, I have to add more correction morphs that specifically made for this character?
Way back in 2017, Rob said "The Simulation > Collision > Collision Layer property on a surface currently only works between separate objects when the Simulation > Collision > Collision Mode property on the Simulation Settings pane is set to "Good - Discrete : Swept Vertex". When the Collision Mode property is set to either of the "CCD" options (e.g., Better or Best), the Collision Layer property has no effect."
Has that since been improved so that collision layer works with all collision modes?
I don't know, sorry - I had entirely forgotten about it (th=gh I do think adjusting it has made a difference in some cases using Best or Better, though.
@crosswind
There is a controller on 1st stage
https://prnt.sc/nr32mABfax-4
But no controller on 2nd stage
I added Jenny body's morph to 2nd stage.
Save the morph.
At first it seems to solve the problem.
But then when I tested it again. Load the Hijab.
The 'js_jenny_body_cbs_shoulder_z55p_r'
still get's dial up
And the controllers 1st and 2nd stage are both now empty.
----
What kind of a bug is this?
You guys seem to experience this often?
Perhaps you didn't save the updated morph properly?
Are the missing controllers missing from the projected morph on the hijab (where you wouldnt expect them) or missing from the morph on the character?
Also might pay to consider that if the PA messed up that one CBS, there's a good chance they probably messed up all of them (?), so you probably are going to have to correct the PA's mistakes for all their CBS. Maybe easier to just uninstall the character at that rate. @mousso
There's no bug... I took a similar corrective morph from JS Sarah. You may check the setting and make sure you select the correct Vendor Name and Product Name when saving morph asset. Assure that you modify and save the corrective morph on G9 rather than the hijab. After saving, remove and reload the hijab.
Edit: If you happened to modify and save the one on the hijab, no worry but just delete it from the hijab's data folder.
@lilweep
@crosswind
Okay, I follow the crosswind last guidance.
The 'js_jenny_body_cbs_shoulder_z55p_r' doesn't kick anymore.
But if this hijab used by other people which their G9 doesn't have the saved morph like I do, it will kick again, right?
If they also have JS Jenny installed without the corrected morph as you did, yes, this CBS will be triggered....
ok, so why this is happening?
Is it because the PA miss/forgot something when developing the product?
Is it purely a glitch?
Yup, a glitch in most of the cases. Seemingly they just forgot to do that 'multiplication'...
clothing developers cant be expected to support the work of PAs who messed up. It is only sensible to expect garment works on basic shapes and maybe some common shapes.
Can always add manual corrective morphs to the clothing so users can dial them in as needed. E.g., 'Expand All', 'Left Shoulder Up', 'Right Shoulder Back' etc etc
Is there a tool where we can see the parameter of the G9 body and the parameter of the clothing we make at the same time?
Cos currently like I have to switch back and forth to see the parameters many many times
AFAIK, nope...