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Who is this character, then?

TheCastellanTheCastellan Posts: 709
edited September 2023 in The Commons

[Who is this character, then?] https://www.daz3d.com/nirv-fashion-stylized-bob-hair

 

Thankies for any helps. smiley

Post edited by Richard Haseltine on

Comments

  • sunnyjeisunnyjei Posts: 502

    I could be wrong - but that looks like it could be a dial in or custom character from a PA that is no longer on Daz or Renderosity (RareStone) looks like a morph between Fredda, Alisa, and Kayla in the other promos (https://posercontent.com/vendors/rarestone/1878)

  • butterflyfishbutterflyfish Posts: 1,244

    ^Agreed. Looks like Kayla to me.

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 6,986

    It's a mixed one from the characters made by Rarestone...you may see Fredda, Alisa, Gou Luk...even Young Minto... but you'll never know the % of dials unless you ask Nirvana...

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,948

    Please put your question in the post body and the title - Daz 3D Forums

  • FSMCDesignsFSMCDesigns Posts: 12,755

    basically, a mix of characters that are no longer available, LOL

  • outrider42outrider42 Posts: 3,679

    The answer is "None of the above".

    It may have originated as a Daz character, but the face has been replaced. So it doesn't matter what the character or morphs were. It is obviously AI generated. Just look at the girl's hands and arm when they are shown.

    I also point out, like in the previous threads, this is ok, because the product is hair, not a character. The hair is not photoshopped, at least I don't think it is.

  • sunnyjeisunnyjei Posts: 502

    outrider42 said:

    The answer is "None of the above".

    It may have originated as a Daz character, but the face has been replaced. So it doesn't matter what the character or morphs were. It is obviously AI generated. Just look at the girl's hands and arm when they are shown.

    I also point out, like in the previous threads, this is ok, because the product is hair, not a character. The hair is not photoshopped, at least I don't think it is.

     

    Love how I've seen that product page many times and it might have been the timing of when this came out- not sure- but wow did I miss all of that the first go thru the hands and the arm especially :|

  • FSMCDesignsFSMCDesigns Posts: 12,755

    sunnyjei said:

     

    Love how I've seen that product page many times and it might have been the timing of when this came out- not sure- but wow did I miss all of that the first go thru the hands and the arm especially :|

    Same. I find this to be a huge problem. AI should not be used for any store promo, regardless of whether it used on the product or the parts supporting the product. DAZ needs to make a clarification and sooner than later

  • butterflyfishbutterflyfish Posts: 1,244

    FSMCDesigns said:

    sunnyjei said:

     

    Love how I've seen that product page many times and it might have been the timing of when this came out- not sure- but wow did I miss all of that the first go thru the hands and the arm especially :|

    Same. I find this to be a huge problem. AI should not be used for any store promo, regardless of whether it used on the product or the parts supporting the product. DAZ needs to make a clarification and sooner than later

    +1 to all the above 

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 6,986
    edited September 2023

    outrider42 said:

    The answer is "None of the above".

    It may have originated as a Daz character, but the face has been replaced. So it doesn't matter what the character or morphs were. It is obviously AI generated. Just look at the girl's hands and arm when they are shown.

    I also point out, like in the previous threads, this is ok, because the product is hair, not a character. The hair is not photoshopped, at least I don't think it is.

    This hair product was made in Q3 of 2020, so which AI could generate such a character at that time? and which AI could constantly generate those fingernails with gradient color at that time? Nirvana and RS had ever been co-working for a period of time before RS left Daz ...The former used quite a few chars from the latter for making promos.

    This one seems that he just brushed out the hair or sth. with Photoshop for a certain reason... I just didn't wanna bother to ask him... But only one thing rather than the character could be judged, the smile... I believe we all know why...

    Post edited by crosswind on
  • outrider42outrider42 Posts: 3,679
    edited September 2023

    crosswind said:

    outrider42 said:

    The answer is "None of the above".

    It may have originated as a Daz character, but the face has been replaced. So it doesn't matter what the character or morphs were. It is obviously AI generated. Just look at the girl's hands and arm when they are shown.

    I also point out, like in the previous threads, this is ok, because the product is hair, not a character. The hair is not photoshopped, at least I don't think it is.

    This hair product was made in Q3 of 2020, so which AI could generate such a character at that time? and which AI could constantly generate those fingernails with gradient color at that time? Nirvana and RS had ever been co-working for a period of time before RS left Daz ...The former used quite a few chars from the latter for making promos.

    This one seems that he just brushed out the hair or sth. with Photoshop for a certain reason... I just didn't wanna bother to ask him... But only one thing rather than the character could be judged, the smile... I believe we all know why...

    It is an exceptionally odd choice. They could have rendered the hands and only photoshopped the face, right? I cannot think of a reason why they needed to do this. Additionally, the iris on the right is not round. If they photoshopped it, why is the iris not round? That is not using the blur tool. 

    Once again this pic does similar things. I see no reason why the hand needs to be photoshopped this way. What is even happening in the last pic with the brush? Why is a hand behind her like that?

    Also, it is subtle, but the smile is slightly different.

    It just so happens that these things are all common issues with AI art generators. I am sure they photoshopped this, but I feel that they used AI to make this face, and AI to create faces existed at the time for a couple years. We even discussed face generators in this forum as some users wanted to use the pics in Facegen to make Daz characters. It is possible that discussion might have even inspired these promos.

    These pics are just too strange to be only photoshopped, IMO. They could have had a fully posed 3D render, and only replaced the face, that's all they needed to do to get that perfect smile. None of it makes sense to me.

    Post edited by outrider42 on
  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 6,986
    edited September 2023
    ...

    Once again this pic does similar things. I see no reason why the hand needs to be photoshopped this way. What is even happening in the last pic with the brush? Why is a hand behind her like that?

    Also, it is subtle, but the smile is slightly different.

    It just so happens that these things are all common issues with AI art generators. I am sure they photoshopped this, but I feel that they used AI to make this face, and AI to create faces existed at the time for a couple years. We even discussed face generators in this forum as some users wanted to use the pics in Facegen to make Daz characters. It is possible that discussion might have even inspired these promos.

    These pics are just too strange to be only photoshopped, IMO. They could have had a fully posed 3D render, and only replaced the face, that's all they needed to do to get that perfect smile. None of it makes sense to me.

    Well I'm also an AI player but there was no AI engine in 2020 that could generate such a char and we did not see any similar work / model like this around that time either. If you used the products of the Asian girls made by RS, Crocodile L., etc., it's easy to tell it's a mixed one, and texture as well.

    Indeed, in 2020 and 2021, in quite a few cases we did like to use FaceApp ('cause it can generate cute and lovely smiles...)... but the generated resolution was low so that's why we needed to retouch the pics with PS sometimes. But I agree these promos are a bit strange... I don't know why and how they were tweaked.  For sure I could ask him but I don't think there's much point now...

    Post edited by crosswind on
  • caravellecaravelle Posts: 2,457
    edited September 2023

     

    Once again this pic does similar things. I see no reason why the hand needs to be photoshopped this way. What is even happening in the last pic with the brush? Why is a hand behind her like that?

    Also, it is subtle, but the smile is slightly different.

    It just so happens that these things are all common issues with AI art generators. I am sure they photoshopped this, but I feel that they used AI to make this face, and AI to create faces existed at the time for a couple years. We even discussed face generators in this forum as some users wanted to use the pics in Facegen to make Daz characters. It is possible that discussion might have even inspired these promos.

    These pics are just too strange to be only photoshopped, IMO. They could have had a fully posed 3D render, and only replaced the face, that's all they needed to do to get that perfect smile. None of it makes sense to me.

    @outrider42, of course you're right; the image is AI-generated. What, for example, is that black stripe doing on the girl's shoulder and upper arm (in the picture on the left)? The hand is much too big, and only a real bungler would have photoshopped it like that. 
    By the way, I remember that a major German news magazine published an article on its online page back in 2018 or 2019, definitely before 2020, that gave clues as to whether a picture was 'real' or AI-produced - only the term 'AI' wasn't used then.

     

    Post edited by caravelle on
  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 6,986
    edited September 2023

    caravelle said:

     

    Once again this pic does similar things. I see no reason why the hand needs to be photoshopped this way. What is even happening in the last pic with the brush? Why is a hand behind her like that?

    Also, it is subtle, but the smile is slightly different.

    It just so happens that these things are all common issues with AI art generators. I am sure they photoshopped this, but I feel that they used AI to make this face, and AI to create faces existed at the time for a couple years. We even discussed face generators in this forum as some users wanted to use the pics in Facegen to make Daz characters. It is possible that discussion might have even inspired these promos.

    These pics are just too strange to be only photoshopped, IMO. They could have had a fully posed 3D render, and only replaced the face, that's all they needed to do to get that perfect smile. None of it makes sense to me.

    @outrider42, of course you're right; the image is AI-generated. What, for example, is that black stripe doing on the girl's shoulder and upper arm (in the picture on the left)? The hand is much too big, and only a real bungler would have photoshopped it like that. 
    By the way, I remember that a major German news magazine published an article on its online page back in 2018 or 2019, definitely before 2020, that gave clues as to whether a picture was 'real' or AI-produced - only the term 'AI' wasn't used then.

     

    Seemingly you've never used FaceApp.  Lots of people went for : Rendering + Face App + Photoshop, around that time. Generating a full face with AI is totally different from generating a smile + beautifying with an app. based on a render from Daz.

    Post edited by crosswind on
  • memcneil70memcneil70 Posts: 4,115

    This came up before in another 'who is this character thread' for this PA's hair I believe and the hands were the give-a-way that it was AI.

    An article I read in one of my news apps said hands, air-brushed hair, and something else I can't remember (of course) are major tells that the image is AI generated. 

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 6,986
    edited September 2023

    Better learn about the AI's journey over the last 5 years, and the 'famous AI engines / apps' there used to be and what they could do.

    Post edited by crosswind on
  • caravellecaravelle Posts: 2,457

    Whatever the glorious path of AI programmes may have been - in these images, with the exception of the face, which is presumably not AI, they were obviously not yet very advanced.

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,220

    Faceapp and ArtBreeder definitely existed when that promo was made and were suggested as possible layered edits in Photoshop at the time.

    AI and GANs existed just not as commonplace as now

    I know because I used them myself 

  • Matt_CastleMatt_Castle Posts: 2,571

    FSMCDesigns said:

    AI should not be used for any store promo, regardless of whether it used on the product or the parts supporting the product. DAZ needs to make a clarification and sooner than later

    It's not necessarily that simple. Where exactly is the line drawn when it comes to using AI?

    The Post Denoiser in Iray is an AI algorithm, as are many other similar tools. Should it/would it then be against the rules to have denoised a product promo? Because for some scenes, that could add many hours to the render times.

  • FSMCDesignsFSMCDesigns Posts: 12,755

    Matt_Castle said:

    FSMCDesigns said:

    AI should not be used for any store promo, regardless of whether it used on the product or the parts supporting the product. DAZ needs to make a clarification and sooner than later

    It's not necessarily that simple. Where exactly is the line drawn when it comes to using AI?

    The Post Denoiser in Iray is an AI algorithm, as are many other similar tools. Should it/would it then be against the rules to have denoised a product promo? Because for some scenes, that could add many hours to the render times.

    That is a valid point since AI is integrated in more and more apps. One online image editor I use has AI enhancment options, which are not the same as using SD, Adobe Firefly, Open AI, or Midjourney to create actual images, many times being trained with real photo prompts from the web. The last thing we need is product promos that users can't replicate using just Daz Studio

  • sunnyjeisunnyjei Posts: 502

    Matt_Castle said:

    FSMCDesigns said:

    AI should not be used for any store promo, regardless of whether it used on the product or the parts supporting the product. DAZ needs to make a clarification and sooner than later

    It's not necessarily that simple. Where exactly is the line drawn when it comes to using AI?

    The Post Denoiser in Iray is an AI algorithm, as are many other similar tools. Should it/would it then be against the rules to have denoised a product promo? Because for some scenes, that could add many hours to the render times.

    For me the line should be if it is not possible to create in Daz Studio then I don't think it is ethical to have it as promo pictures without stating somewhere in the image- edited with XX, YY, and ZZ. And there should at least be several images that clearly show the object from all angles without any edits other than labels. There are a few PAs that I mostly shy away from because their product promos look so overly processed that I am not for sure what  the product actually  looks like.  *shrugs*

  • PetraPetra Posts: 1,154

    It looks to me like they tried to fix a pose, arm or hand in photoshop with the clone tool or something like that.

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 6,986

    Petra said:

    It looks to me like they tried to fix a pose, arm or hand in photoshop with the clone tool or something like that.

    More or less that's right. So nowadays AI sometimes 'mislead' peolple to make incorrect judgements...

    If one installed Daz-Deals add-on, he/she would find nearlly all the threads / questions from 2-3 years ago relating to this product , check if anybody there ever mentioned anything about 'AI' in their posts...

    The evolution of artificial intelligence should lead to the evolution of human intelligence... and visa versa of course.

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